Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #100

[Cryptic]

If he is a psychopath, he wasn't nervous then and he isn't nervous now. They know right from wrong, they just don't care.

Perhaps two concepts are being mixed together:
-remorse
- fear of getting caught

Though full psychopaths are probably not going to be truly remorseful about anything, they could be fearful (nervous) of getting caught and display behavior to demonstrate that.

In short, all full psychopaths would have a lack of true remorse. Not all of this population, however, might display "Doctor Hannibal Lector" type coolness all the time.

 

[sunshineray]

If I understand the definition of a true psychopath correctly, he wouldn’t necessarily be nervous, or show signs of that. They lack the empathetic and neurological responses of those with a more normalized psychological profile.

Someone more expert in this science please feel free to correct me as this is an amateur opinion and speculation.

I'm by no means an expert but found this 2016 article where science is reevaluating psychopaths. They now think they do recognize fear (a kind of nervousness right?) but don't recognize danger. It's a bit brainy in spots but very interesting.

Redirect Notice
I don't know why this link redirects to a blank page with the actual link? Hope you can open it. Sorry if you can't

 

[rosesfromangels]

If he is a psychopath, he wasn't nervous then and he isn't nervous now. They know right from wrong, they just don't care. But they also wouldn't commit a crime with a policeman standing right next to them because they know it would get them locked up right away. So they still try to do everything they can to make sure that they are not caught. They don't mind and don't care about taking high risks though at the same time - like in this case doing what he did in broad daylight.

Plus, while I'm talking about this subject, like others have said before, he doesn't have any conscience left (see PC), if he is a psychopath he never had a conscience to begin with.

MOO.

You explained my understanding of a psychopath perfectly. Thank you.

 

[Miya]

Perhaps two concepts are being mixed together:
-remorse
- fear of getting caught

Though full psychopaths are probably not going to be truly remorseful about anything, they could be fearful (nervous) of getting caught and display behavior to demonstrate that.

In short, all full psychopaths would have a lack of true remorse. Not all of this population, however, might display "Doctor Hannibal Lector" type coolness all the time.

That's what I meant, they don't want to get caught. But, and this is from my personal experience, they are not really scared of getting caught, it doesn't make them nervous. But of course they don't want to go to prison.

So yes, it's possible that they will change after committing a crime like in this case, it's also possible that they will change after a PC, like change their appearance, etc. Just to try and not get caught though and not because they are nervous. Again, I just know from personal experience that they are ice cold. And that they think they are smarter than everybody else (even if they have a low IQ). If you are not a psychopath, you can't understand what's going on in their heads and you try to explain things as you would describe a "normal" person including putting emotions into their heads that you would feel in the same situation, but they are wired in a totally different way. It's impossible to try to think like someone who doesn't have a conscience, feels no remorse, no love, sees other people as objects and tools to get what he or she wants and not as human beings.

It's very difficult to explain, but yes, if they appear "nervous", it's just because they don't want to go to prison and not because they feel any kind of remorse.

MOO.

 

[watcher9]

All this time, I had been assuming that the Down the hill was directed at the girls while they were still up on the bridge.
Since we could also hear what sounded like the muffled rustling of dead leaves in the background, he must have been said it after they were off the bridge and were walking among a lot of leaves.
According to the GH videos, Libby may have been off the end of the bridge when she made the video but Abby was still on the bridge so the audio would have been captured after that.

 

[7%Reichenbach]

I never claimed to the contrary. However, some skill is necessary for any voluntary action we take with skill determining our likely success rate.

As we have no knowledge of the COD or the state of the bodies we have no knowledge of overkill even taking place. Now with that being said are there not killers that plan and plan and plan to keep a victim for an extended length of time and once they are done desecrating a living being they continue to mutilate and abuse the body?
Disorganized killers also frequently use weapons of opportunity BG wouldn't have been able to control 2 girls without a weapon. While it may not be the murder weapon there was one almost certainly involved.

How many points of contact do snipers typically have? Or bombers? Usually 0 so I have to disagree with points of contact being relevant when placing a killer on the spectrum.

My view is disorganized equals psychotic break or long history of severe mental disorder where rational thought and reasonable social skills are no longer present in an individual, has most likely been or remains on fringes of society that helps them and their victims go unnoticed. Attacking and killing whenever they are willed or compelled commit an attack. Sometimes feeling remorse or guilt.
Organized killers stalk and hunt their territory. They know what weapons and tools they need for their crime. They take forensic countermeasures. They adapt and become more sophisticated. They enjoy following the crime feeling superior to law enforcement. There is no remorse. They choose when they hunt based upon certain criteria.

Getting away with murder, is not necessarily a sign of high intelligence or skill.

Likewise, disorganization doesn’t mean there is no planning.

There is a spectrum, and not two completely different types of killers.

I believe that this guy falls more towards disorganized, although there are absolutely elements of organization there.

One of the hallmarks of disorganized killers, is a level of overkill. They derive pleasure from desecrating and mutilating the bodies of their victims. This separates them from more organized killers.

They hunt close to home, tend to have lower self control, and are more prone to drug and alcohol problems.

The late FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood has an excellent book on the differences between the two.

According to his research, organized killers tend to have three separate crimes scenes:

Place of initial contact.

Place of murder.

Place where body is disposed.

BG likely had two.

 

[MistyWaters]

I’m new to the case (thought it was solved till the PC last month) and just catching up on it. The timing of the Snapchat pic and the video is bugging me. 2:07 is when the pic was posted, but not necessarily when it was taken (You can save pics to your camera roll and post them Whenever you want). When was the video shot? Is it assumed that it was right after the pic and that’s why I’ve seen it was taken at 2:17ish? I Apologize if these are stupid questions. Still trying to wrap my head around what happened.

Welcome!

I know nothing about Snapchat but it’s been widely reported the photo of Abby was taken by Libby at 2:07pm, probably known by the time stamp. Other than the Snapchat recipient posting the photo on FB later than evening and alerting LE then the media caught wind of it as well, I don’t recall that any other information about it was ever released. The two photos below including one of only the bridge I’d assume is how they would’ve appeared on the recipients Snapchat app? The video of the man on the bridge was captured later, about 2:30pm iirc according to
Libby’s grandmother but that’s unofficial and not confirmed by LE.





Delphi Timeline

 

[MassGuy]

I never claimed to the contrary. However, some skill is necessary for any voluntary action we take with skill determining our likely success rate.

As we have no knowledge of the COD or the state of the bodies we have no knowledge of overkill even taking place. Now with that being said are there not killers that plan and plan and plan to keep a victim for an extended length of time and once they are done desecrating a living being they continue to mutilate and abuse the body?
Disorganized killers also frequently use weapons of opportunity BG wouldn't have been able to control 2 girls without a weapon. While it may not be the murder weapon there was one almost certainly involved.

How many points of contact do snipers typically have? Or bombers? Usually 0 so I have to disagree with points of contact being relevant when placing a killer on the spectrum.

My view is disorganized equals psychotic break or long history of severe mental disorder where rational thought and reasonable social skills are no longer present in an individual, has most likely been or remains on fringes of society that helps them and their victims go unnoticed. Attacking and killing whenever they are willed or compelled commit an attack. Sometimes feeling remorse or guilt.
Organized killers stalk and hunt their territory. They know what weapons and tools they need for their crime. They take forensic countermeasures. They adapt and become more sophisticated. They enjoy following the crime feeling superior to law enforcement. There is no remorse. They choose when they hunt based upon certain criteria.

As I said, it’s a spectrum. Rarely is it completely organized or disorganized.

Snipers or bombers are rarely serial killers, atleast in regards to the purposes of this discussion. They tend of have political, religious, or social goals, and aren’t generally motivated by the things that drive killers like this.

The points of contact idea was written by one of the pioneers of criminal profiling, and was based on his decades of experience.

This is a general observation, and not one that holds true for every case.

As we don’t know the specifics of the crime scene, it is that much harder to figure out where this guy falls on the spectrum.

Personally, I see him as more disorganized than disorganized, and not as some criminal mastermind.

 

[MsArk]

Reading some of the earlier media and in reference to a post a few threads back when someone asked if the girls referred to BG as “creepy”. I do think that actual word came from BP but here is a link where, while she doesn’t use the word “creepy”, she does confirm the girls mentioned BG in the audio.

https://www.wthr.com/article/police...of-man-behind-them-in-audio-played-for-family

 

[MassGuy]

Reading some of the earlier media and in reference to a post a few threads back when someone asked if the girls referred to BG as “creepy”. I do think that actual word came from BP but here is a link where, while she doesn’t use the word “creepy”, she does confirm the girls mentioned BG in the audio.

https://www.wthr.com/article/police...of-man-behind-them-in-audio-played-for-family

Even if that particular word wasn’t used, I think it’s reasonable to infer that the girls were creeped out by him.

They mentioned him for a reason.

 

[Krwiley60]

I don’t think we know for sure that he ordered them “down the hill”. All we know for sure is that somewhere in all of this he said “down the hill”. It’s possible he wasn’t even talking to the girls when he said it.

Once again, LE would know this information. They know exactly what was said and at what time.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Welcome!

I know nothing about Snapchat but it’s been widely reported the photo of Abby was taken by Libby at 2:07pm, probably known by the time stamp. Other than the Snapchat recipient posting the photo on FB later than evening and alerting LE then the media caught wind of it as well, I don’t recall that any other information about it was ever released. The two photos below including one of only the bridge I’d assume is how they would’ve appeared on the recipients Snapchat app? The video of the man on the bridge was captured later, about 2:30pm iirc according to
Libby’s grandmother but that’s unofficial and not confirmed by LE.

View attachment 183439

View attachment 183440

Delphi Timeline

Thanks for the info! The Snapchat time is time posted - at least it is in 2019. Wonder if LE got time stamps from the actual photos and they were taken and posted immediately or if it’s just assumed that the pic was taken/posted at that time in that place. Not staying they weren’t taken that day or anything. Still trying to make a timeline in my head (it’s just how I process info) and there is A LOT of info on WS! Unfortunately, I couldn’t open the witness timeline posted on page 99, but I’d really like to see that too.

 

[they'll get you]

I think they were a proxy for his rage.

My guess is that this guy has a major issue with females, and is incapable of a normal romantic relationship with someone his age.

As a result, he hates women. The girls were just in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

There is a guy in our area and all he does is walk for miles and miles. One of our friends stopped and asked if he wanted a lift and he approached his vehicle and abused him and kept screaming at him when he was driving away.
I agree with you MassGuy that these mentally injured people walk among us.
Many years ago I was walking in a street in Sydney Australia when suddenly a man intentionally shouldered me hard into a wall for no reason.
Yes they walk among us and we don’t know what evil they harbour in their brains.

 

[mtnlites]

There is a guy in our area and all he does is walk for miles and miles. One of our friends stopped and asked if he wanted a lift and he approached his vehicle and abused him and kept screaming at him when he was driving away.
I agree with you MassGuy that these mentally injured people walk among us.
Many years ago I was walking in a street in Sydney Australia when suddenly a man intentionally shouldered me hard into a wall for no reason.
Yes they walk among us and we don’t know what evil they harbour in their brains.

And recently there was the man who went to the Mall of America and threw a 5 year old stranger over the third floor railing. He was apparently bitter about women turning him down (his story) so he went to the mall that day with the intentions of killing someone. He'd planned on killing an adult, but when he saw the little boy he just took advantage of the opportunity. The man's family has been in the news talking about his problems and how they'd tried to get him "help" in the past. He'd also been in trouble in that mall in the past. It was a totally random crime done by someone who was seriously disturbed and had shown previous signs of anger and potential assault.

 

[MassGuy]

There is a guy in our area and all he does is walk for miles and miles. One of our friends stopped and asked if he wanted a lift and he approached his vehicle and abused him and kept screaming at him when he was driving away.
I agree with you MassGuy that these mentally injured people walk among us.
Many years ago I was walking in a street in Sydney Australia when suddenly a man intentionally shouldered me hard into a wall for no reason.
Yes they walk among us and we don’t know what evil they harbour in their brains.

I think the people you are talking about are truly mentally ill. I’ve had run ins with people like that myself.

Many people like that, genuinely are incapable of knowing right from wrong, and are unaware of societal norms.

I don’t think this guy is like that.

I believe he is capable of planning, knows what he is doing, and can differentiate right from wrong.

He just doesn’t care, as it’s all about him and his needs.

 

[peel]

at any other time, that pic of Abby would be a keepsake for her mother.....its a stunning pic of Abby and the bridge and the brown February forest.

...I'm sure its treasured, with a touch of sadness......her beautiful, innocent,joyful daughter......

but Love will always conquer hate......goodness will always conquer evil.....

 

[mtnlites]

I think the people you are talking about are truly mentally ill. I’ve had run ins with people like that myself.

Many people like that, genuinely are incapable of knowing right from wrong, and are unaware of societal norms.

I don’t think this guy is like that.

I believe he is capable of planning, knows what he is doing, and can differentiate right from wrong.

He just doesn’t care, as it’s all about him and his needs.

Yeah, there seems to be a line there. As my husband says, it's not a line that you can describe, but you know it when you see it.

 

[Elizabeth Lavenza]

IMO...two sweet little unsuspecting girls vs. some dude's rage against whatever, but probably against women. In a tiny Indiana town. I am so peeved at all of it right now. Generally, I am tired of the fact that being female makes you a target. That is all.
Thanks for letting me vent. MOO.

 

[they'll get you]

<modsnipped religious content>

Abby & Libby knew evil was approaching but they had no alternative.

 

[rosesfromangels]

For those of you tired of hearing me babble on about this Suspect and dentistry and orthodontics, please roll and scroll....I'm obsessed with this concept!

I am convinced this Perp can be found based on his dental and/or orthodontic work. The sketch with the distinctive long chin, the set of the cupid-bowish mouth that looks like a "braces" mouth...the unique set of the jaw. I am just so convinced he can be identified in this manner. I'm truly obsessed with this, so sorry for the repeat.
Let's smoke him out!

Amateur dental opinion and amateur speculation!