Found Safe NC - Shaylie Madden, 7-week-old infant, Biltmore Park in Asheville, 9 May 2019 *Arrest*

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I am most intimately aware of mental health issues, much more than I would prefer to discuss. I know I sound like a hard nosed person lacking in all empathy, but truly I am not. I just do not think this person deserves any special treatment or sympathy based on the facts of the case. If she were psychotic to the point where she did not understand the wrongness of her actions, or was compelled but willing to suffer the consequences, my thoughts would be very different. But she went through an elaborate plan to carry out the murder of a child, and then tried her best not just to prevent people from finding her child, but also to convince everyone that someone else had done this to her - to Krista, she played the victim here.
To top it off, we have people fawning all over her because she is a woman of privilege. <modsnip>
 
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Maybe posters missed the fact that Krista Madden turned off her location service on her iPhone. The friend that called 911 had used this before in Find a Friend app to locate Krista, but that day it strangely wasn't on.

Then Krista drove 25 miles to a very rural area all the while texting her friend saying she had been kidnapped by two people and thrown into the trunk of a car.

She then tossed her baby down a very rural ravine where it never should have been found.

She proceeded to drive 2 miles away and hide her car down a gated private property road. She had to get out of her car to lift the road gate to enter this desolate, private property road.

After abandoning her well-hidden car, she walked or ran to a rural highway and continued with the "It's not my fault, I was kidnapped" lie.

During the next 3 hours, she did not provide information about the location of her baby to LE. Only by the Grace of God was Shaylie found.

Premeditation and well-organized, rational thoughts to hide a serious crime (and blame others) are not symptoms of postpartum depression and psychosis. By definition, psychosis is a condition of disorganized, irrational thoughts.
 
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I understand psychosis (I am a mental health professional with no desire to be a verified expert, so I don’t usually mention that), but I also understand that there’s a lot of information we don’t have about this case. I think the unknowns make it even more important to state facts as such, and opinion the same way. I also see the father as a victim, and I wouldn’t expect any other victims/family members to post bail for a person accused of harming them, so I don’t see this as unusual. MOO of course.
 
I'm agreeing with all of Granny's recent posts (I've missed some pages in the middle of the thread). In all my years working with depressed and psychotic patients as a psychiatric NP, I have never seen a person with psychosis present with such organized thought processes.

She has something going on, but based on the information that we have I don't believe that it's any type of psychosis (postpartum or otherwise). Someone in a psychotic state such as Andrea Yates is basically unable to even take care of basic daily life skills (like personal hygiene or eating). Krista's planning and execution of this event requires extremely sophisticated executive functioning skills.

Interestingly I lived in the area where the Yates incident occurred and sometimes admitted people to the hospital where she ended up for awhile. My heart broke for the psychiatrist who treated her and probably didn't have the whole story about how severe her symptoms were at home. I also survived having a colicky baby and didn't sleep more than a few hours at a time for about a year. I was depressed, irritable, and forgetful (I remember sobbing at 9 am, wondering how I was going to make it through the day) but luckily had a good support system, was relatively functional on medication, and never experienced any psychotic symptoms.

It's going to be very interesting what happens in this case. My heart goes out to her entire family. They must be devastated.
 
This reminds me of someone desperate for attention. The elaborate story, etc. Sort of like Sherri Papini case.

Also, maybe KM didn’t throw her baby all the way down. That’s a long way with almost zero injuries. Maybe she wanted baby to be found (knew baby ok)
 
elmomom said:
I am most intimately aware of mental health issues, much more than I would prefer to discuss. I know I sound like a hard nosed person lacking in all empathy, but truly I am not. I just do not think this person deserves any special treatment or sympathy based on the facts of the case. If she were psychotic to the point where she did not understand the wrongness of her actions, or was compelled but willing to suffer the consequences, my thoughts would be very different. But she went through an elaborate plan to carry out the murder of a child, and then tried her best not just to prevent people from finding her child, but also to convince everyone that someone else had done this to her - to Krista, she played the victim here.
To top it off, we have people fawning all over her because she is a woman of privilege. I shudder to think what the tone of this discussion would be if she was indigent, or god help her, black, perhaps.
Click to expand...

Go read the thread about the black woman with PPP who through her daughter into the water. You would find the same sympathy. I'd post a link, but I'm not sure how to find it.
 
annemc2 said:
I'm agreeing with all of Granny's recent posts (I've missed some pages in the middle of the thread). In all my years working with depressed and psychotic patients as a psychiatric NP, I have never seen a person with psychosis present with such organized thought processes.

She has something going on, but based on the information that we have I don't believe that it's any type of psychosis (postpartum or otherwise). Someone in a psychotic state such as Andrea Yates is basically unable to even take care of basic daily life skills (like personal hygiene or eating). Krista's planning and execution of this event requires extremely sophisticated executive functioning skills.

Interestingly I lived in the area where the Yates incident occurred and sometimes admitted people to the hospital where she ended up for awhile. My heart broke for the psychiatrist who treated her and probably didn't have the whole story about how severe her symptoms were at home. I also survived having a colicky baby and didn't sleep more than a few hours at a time for about a year. I was depressed, irritable, and forgetful (I remember sobbing at 9 am, wondering how I was going to make it through the day) but luckily had a good support system, was relatively functional on medication, and never experienced any psychotic symptoms.

It's going to be very interesting what happens in this case. My heart goes out to her entire family. They must be devastated.
Click to expand...
Thank you for joining this thread. I have the greatest respect for Psychiatric Mental Health NPs.
 
This research study might answer some questions about post partum, and whether the patient might seem organised and logical, even when doing bizarre, heinous acts.

Postpartum Psychosis and the Courts

Women with this disorder can appear delirious and disorganized.14 Second, symptoms can arise and dissipate suddenly, with the woman appearing lucid one moment and psychotic the next.15Third, although DSM-IV-TR classifies it as a psychotic disorder not otherwise specified,4 research shows that the syndrome can have both affective and psychotic components.16


In State v. Adams, the Louisiana Court of Appeals upheld a jury finding that the defendant's postpartum mental disorders did not meet the wrongfulness test of the M'Naughten standard.35The court held that Ms. Adams, who placed her three-month old child into a clothes dryer, understood the difference between right and wrong at the time of the offense. She was convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. Despite the expert testimony of a psychiatrist who assigned a diagnosis of major depressive disorder, severe, with psychotic features, with postpartum onset in partial remission, the jury believed that the condition did not impair the defendant's ability to distinguish wrongfulness. Their decision was based on inconsistencies in her behavior, such as her attempt to cover up her actions, the absence of delusions, and the absence of a psychotic motive. Other psychiatrists testified that she had a major depressive episode with postpartum onset and also that she met criteria for posttraumatic stress disorder. However, that she did not experience delusions or hallucinations at the time of the killings was interpreted to mean that she did not meet the M'Naughten criterion.

===================================================================

I think this case ^^^ describes the issue we are having here, when discussing her case.

Psychiatrists say, according to this research article, that patients with severe PP Depressive Disorder, MAY appear logical and organised at times, in spite of their diagnosis.

Juries have a hard time accepting this, and these defendants are often found GUILTY because of this. But psychiatrists do say that it is still a severe mental health problem that is debilitating,
and patients are diagnosed with Post Partum, even when they are seemingly 'rational and organised' at the time.
 
Twenty-seven years ago, I was trying to breastfeed a colicky infant and care for a very busy two-year-old. I saw a man standing in the empty lot in front of my house starting at my front door. I kept checking frequently and this man never moved. He just stood there, so I called the police. A policeman came and took me across the street to show me that the man was actually a TREE STUMP. I saw it was a tree stump up close. I actually touched the tree stump and felt very stupid, but when I walked back across the street to my home with the policeman, the tree stump became a man again. I was psychotic. The policeman immediately called my husband and took my children and me to my neighbor's home. I continued to stand at my neighbor's glass front door and stare at the man (actually a tree stump) in the empty lot across from my house.

My husband arrived home with Enfamil, Playtex bottles, and a long rant about
La Leche League. When I didn't respond excitedly, he got his chain saw out and cut down the stump. This stopped that visual hallucination, but it didn't alter my severely depressed affect. I had to have a babysitter every day while he was at work for three weeks while prescribed antidepressants began to work.

Postpartum psychosis is a real medical condition, but imo, Krista wasn't suffering from it. Her premeditated actions to save herself from prosecution and blame others are highly organized and not irrational. She knew right from wrong.
 
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This case will cause most people a great deal of cognitive dissonance and bring out a lot of differing opinions. I go back and forth.
But then I read how this precious baby girl was thrown down that ravine unstrapped in a carseat. The only reason she didn't land at the bottom of the 75 foot drop was because she hit a rock along the way. Picturing this injured 7 week old crying her lungs out, lying head first down in the wet dirt for hours, reminds me of who the true victim is in this situation. The couple that found her said in a matter of hours the coyotes would have gotten her. It's just gut wrenching.
 
That baby is a miracle. Perhaps she's destined to do something great with her life.
So pleased she's safe!

Having a baby in your life is hard. It's stressful. It's waiting for sleep and for that child's cognizant years to start. I just cannot imagine no one in the mom's environment having noticed the impending breakdown-- Just a sad case. But the ending! a HUNDRED times better than I dared to hope. I also was convinced she'd be another statistic at the hands of a caregiver, but she's going to do great things with her life! Here's hoping for that!
 
Gunslinging Granny said:
Maybe posters missed the fact that Krista Madden turned off her location service on her iPhone. The friend that called 911 had used this before in Find a Friend app to locate Krista, but that day it strangely wasn't on.

Then Krista drove 25 miles to a very rural area all the while texting her friend saying she had been kidnapped by two people and thrown into the trunk of a car.

She then tossed her baby down a very rural ravine where it never should have been found.

She proceeded to drive 2 miles away and hide her car down a gated private property road. She had to get out of her car to lift the road gate to enter this desolate, private property road.

After abandoning her well-hidden car, she walked or ran to a rural highway and continued with the "It's not my fault, I was kidnapped" lie.

During the next 3 hours, she did not provide information about the location of her baby to LE. Only by the Grace of God was Shaylie found.

Premeditation and well-organized, rational thoughts to hide a serious crime (and blame others) are not symptoms of postpartum depression and psychosis. By definition, psychosis is a condition of disorganized, irrational thoughts.
Click to expand...

- plus she gave a description of the suspects- the man and woman with ski masks
 
Police previously said the report of the kidnapping originated from Dearborn Street, less than a half-mile from Madden's listed residence.
Records obtained by the Citizen Times show relatives of Madden live on Dearborn.
911 call on faked kidnapping: 'Either way there is a 7-week-old little infant in trouble'

I’m saving this statement here because it might be significant. I wonder if Krista had an altercation with these relatives before she pretended to be kidnapped near their home. Perhaps these relatives had a special attachment to Shaylie.
 
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Gunslinging Granny said:
Police previously said the report of the kidnapping originated from Dearborn Street, less than a half-mile from Madden's listed residence.
Records obtained by the Citizen Times show relatives of Madden live on Dearborn.
911 call on faked kidnapping: 'Either way there is a 7-week-old little infant in trouble'

I’m saving this statement here because it might be significant. I wonder if Krista had an altercation with these relatives before she pretended to be kidnapped near their home. Perhaps these relatives had a special attachment to Shaylie.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the relatives are the ones who called 911? I thought it was a friend that called but it makes more sense that she would text a relative with her ruse instead of a friend. MOO.
 
I'll bet the 911 caller was her mom. When the 911 operator asked for her full birthdate, the caller immediately knew it. The caller was also extremely familiar with her car and car license tag holder. The 911 caller also mentioned she could watch Krista and Shaylie on their baby nest monitor.
 
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