Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[Cutiekitty]

Two years ago i thought maybe they were killed around 2:40 or so, I now believe it was 2:30 or so.


JM's YT channel has videos of the areas in question, hope this helps.

Julie Melvin

I’ll check it out. Thank you!

 

[Cutiekitty]

This is a RTV6 video of the trail and bridge. Play the video and about halfway thru at 1min 40 secs the crossing of the bridge is shown and you can turn the view around 360° ( just put your finger on the screen and drag it around) so it is helpful to show what can be seen from the bridge at all angles. I will also post the pic of the searchers on the bridge link below.

Google Image Result for https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/pharostribune.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/7f/c7fc3b10-f314-11e6-b732-0f5cd0bc8229/58a39f2e294e3.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C803

The view of the bridge from the crime scene is on the last page of the image thread post #1122.

I think it's good to have a look at the pics again and have a refresh of the area in our minds.

This case just hit my radar after the April PC. All of this is new to me. The pic I saw is different from the one in post 1122. I keep getting error messages when I try to upload it, but I’ll keep trying.

 

[FleurQualia]

Thanks for the replies guys; it always confounded me that the bridge was completely empty in the one picture, then shortly later BG is caught by Libby. But I now see it can be crossed in a relatively short amount of time, even in its rickety state.

It makes me wonder when BG first spotted the girls, though I am not sure that question is answerable at this time. He was obviously making a beeline for them on the bridge, and I wonder how long he had been observing them for.

 

[MistyWaters]

The empty bridge photo is the one I was talking about above. Will try to find the searcher photo. I’m sure there have got to be some pics out there from the south end of the bridge showing the alleged path they took. I don’t think any of this means anything. I’m just curious about it.

The crime scene area is shown just after 11:00 in this GH video. Considering the dense bushy trees and hilly terrain it seems evident to me there was no clear sight lines from any direction.

 

[Cutiekitty]

The crime scene area is shown just after 11:00 in this GH video. Considering the dense bushy trees and hilly terrain it seems evident to me there was no clear sight lines from any direction.

Thank you! It does look difficult to see from the bridge. Like I said, someone might’ve been able to see a flash of bright color, but not anything substantial.

I can’t attach the news photo from the scene side facing the bridge because it’s too large of a file and I can’t just copy the pic and save it because it’s copyrighted. Not sure if we can post twitter links and it was on an ABC newscaster’s twitter feed.

 

[susiQ]

If he hadn't previously been in the area and was suddenly in the area in the time frame immediately preceding and following the murders I still think they would have looked at him.

Possibly they have crossed paths with him and even interviewed him already and maybe someone gave him an alibi that worked. Maybe he knows people in the immediate area and could claim he was "visiting". Perhaps they are looking at him again, given the stark change in the direction of the investigation. Supt. DC did say, as the investigation goes on they may find that "we were onto something early on." JMO

 

[Falling Down]

Thanks for the replies guys; it always confounded me that the bridge was completely empty in the one picture, then shortly later BG is caught by Libby. But I now see it can be crossed in a relatively short amount of time, even in its rickety state.

It makes me wonder when BG first spotted the girls, though I am not sure that question is answerable at this time. He was obviously making a beeline for them on the bridge, and I wonder how long he had been observing them for.

A witness saw BG by the bridge before 2PM, I think they gave a time of 1:50 or so. They said they passed A&L on the trail, but did not talk to the girls or warn them about anyone else on the trail.

My hunch is shortly thereafter BG walked past them, and figured he would try to target them. So maybe around 1:55. Within minutes he was making sure nobody else was on the trail or in the small parking area, then started stalking the girls, making sure they were most of the way across the bridge.

JMO

-FD

 

[MistyWaters]

A witness saw BG by the bridge before 2PM, I think they gave a time of 1:50 or so. They said they passed A&L on the trail, but did not talk to the girls or warn them about anyone else on the trail.

My hunch is shortly thereafter BG walked past them, and figured he would try to target them. So maybe around 1:55. Within minutes he was making sure nobody else was on the trail or in the small parking area, then started stalking the girls, making sure they were most of the way across the bridge.

JMO

-FD

Do you have a link for a witness seeing BG on the trail before 2pm and passing and not warning Libby and Abby and are you sure it’s factual information as opposed to someone’s theory? Because honestly, I don’t recall anything ever reported about that and I’ve followed this case closely from the very beginning.

That would be bombshell news and the first time a witness sighting was reported of the murderer right on the trail. But then I’d have to question - if this witness was certain they saw the murderer, why was the earlier sketch of the suspect much different than the more recent one?

 

[zencompass]

Don't forget to watch Investigation Discovery tomorrow night for "Down the Hill".

Thanks for the reminder!

 

[Falling Down]

Do you have a link for a witness seeing BG on the trail before 2pm and passing and not warning Libby and Abby and are you sure it’s factual information as opposed to someone’s theory? Because honestly, I don’t recall anything ever reported about that and I’ve followed this case closely from the very beginning.

That would be bombshell news and the first time a witness sighting was reported of the murderer right on the trail. But then I’d have to question - if this witness was certain they saw the murderer, why was the earlier sketch of the suspect much different than the more recent one?

Others saw him on or near the trail, too. Nothing new about that, really.

A witness was walking their dog, and turned around at the bridge/end of the trail, and there was BG coming down the trail. I don't have a link It's been over two years, now, a lot of links for MSM reports about the case are now dead ends.

The witness said they passed BG, then passed A&L but didn't exchange any dialogue with the girls.

There were many people there that day, at various times. Describing when the girls were dropped off, Libby's sister has mentioned that there were "lots of kids" there, or something to that extent. So I'd imagine there were quite a few witnesses who saw BG, in that general area, whether up close or at a distance.

JMO

-FD

 

[FleurQualia]

The crime scene area is shown just after 11:00 in this GH video. Considering the dense bushy trees and hilly terrain it seems evident to me there was no clear sight lines from any direction.

This video was very illuminating to me. It shows that the path to the bridge was longer than I thought, and makes me think they first came across BG there as mentioned in an earlier thread. This would also explain to me why Libby was uncomfortable enough to start filming the guy on the bridge.

Either they just passed by the guy and noticed him start following them, or there was an exchange that made them uncomfortable, then concerned them more when they noticed him coming toward them on the bridge.

I think he waited to follow them, considering the bridge is empty in the pic of Abby, maybe to make sure they were isolated on the other side.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

I’m watching the virtually a detective series about this case on YT. The guy is just interviewing the family members and it’s interesting. Actually, the best interviews I’ve seem so far, but I’ve only seen the 2 with KG and the one with MP and BP.

Both interviews with KG were very interesting. In the first she talks about LG and the type of person she was and the bridge (popular place for people KG’s age). In the second one at about 2 minutes 52 seconds in she starts talking about the movie The Shack. This interview was in September 2018.

I had never heard of this movie prior to the April PC and now it’s referenced twice in discussions about this investigation. So weird!

Edit: I’m wondering if BG IS following the case and LE knows it.

What did KG say about The Shack in the interview?

 

[ScumbagTrav]

This video was very illuminating to me. It shows that the path to the bridge was longer than I thought, and makes me think they first came across BG there as mentioned in an earlier thread. This would also explain to me why Libby was uncomfortable enough to start filming the guy on the bridge.

Either they just passed by the guy and noticed him start following them, or there was an exchange that made them uncomfortable, then concerned them more when they noticed him coming toward them on the bridge.

I think he waited to follow them, considering the bridge is empty in the pic of Abby, maybe to make sure they were isolated on the other side.

Something that gets me, and please dont take this as a slight at Libby who did amazing capturing her killer.

But I kept help but to wonder, and forgive me if this has been covered before, but if she was suspicious of something, video recording him seems like an odd choice.

Seems like pretending to be on the phone, talking to someone, would be more of a deterrent to keep the guy away.

Or ACTUALLY call someone, just to have someone on the phone. That seems like it would likely prevent someone from approaching them, because whoever she was on the phone with (or who he thought she was on the phone with) would be alerted right away that something was wrong.

Filming him (allegedly unbeknownst to BG) doesnt stop anything from happening. Only documents that something did. It does nothing to help them out of the situation, only provides clues to what did.

So to me it seems much more likely that Libby just happened to be recording a video, and then captured him coming towards them. OR he crept up on them quick, and she only had time to hit record.

 

[MizStery]

Others saw him on or near the trail, too. Nothing new about that, really.

Hi Falling Down, I had a second reliable individual who collaborated there was a witness seen leaving the area. Unfortunately The MSM link to that interview has been taken down and is no longer available.So I am left with Mike P’s statement on Dr Phil’s Show that indeed there was an eye witness who saw a person that looked like this leaving the area around that time that day.

Mike P speaking on Dr Phil(I am paraphrasing)​

Phil:Okay, and I guess based on this [Still Frame Image of Murder Suspect] and on witnesses they came up with a sketch. And um this is the sketch. And this does, and I don’t know maybe it’s just suggestibility, but it does look the picture [Still Frame Image of Murder Suspect]. Um but this [The Sketch] is based on witnesses saying what they saw of a man there at the time right?

MP: [taking the lead from the overlap in response to Dr. Phil’s statements ]That is correct. That is from an eye witness person who saw a person that looked liked this leaving that area around that time that day.
​

if this witness was certain they saw the murderer, why was the earlier sketch of the suspect much different than the more recent one?

Great question Misty Waters ‘why is the sketch so different’ from the recent one?’ Gosh I would like to know that! Because with each passing day the trail grows ever colder.

MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Others saw him on or near the trail, too. Nothing new about that, really.

A witness was walking their dog, and turned around at the bridge/end of the trail, and there was BG coming down the trail. I don't have a link It's been over two years, now, a lot of links for MSM reports about the case are now dead ends.

The witness said they passed BG, then passed A&L but didn't exchange any dialogue with the girls.

There were many people there that day, at various times. Describing when the girls were dropped off, Libby's sister has mentioned that there were "lots of kids" there, or something to that extent. So I'd imagine there were quite a few witnesses who saw BG, in that general area, whether up close or at a distance.

JMO

-FD

I remember that story from somewhere too. I just don’t remember if it was a reliable source I heard it from or a social media rumor.

 

[Cutiekitty]

What did KG say about The Shack in the interview?

Basically she said she felt like the main character then she discussed the plot of the movie. She was responding to a question from the interviewer. I think he asked what she thought should happen to BG once he is caught.

2 references to The Shack? When it was brought up in the PC I thought it was really weird. Maybe the movie is more popular than I thought (I’d never heard of it).

 

[Charlot123]

Something that gets me, and please dont take this as a slight at Libby who did amazing capturing her killer.

But I kept help but to wonder, and forgive me if this has been covered before, but if she was suspicious of something, video recording him seems like an odd choice.

Seems like pretending to be on the phone, talking to someone, would be more of a deterrent to keep the guy away.

Or ACTUALLY call someone, just to have someone on the phone. That seems like it would likely prevent someone from approaching them, because whoever she was on the phone with (or who he thought she was on the phone with) would be alerted right away that something was wrong.

Filming him (allegedly unbeknownst to BG) doesnt stop anything from happening. Only documents that something did. It does nothing to help them out of the situation, only provides clues to what did.

So to me it seems much more likely that Libby just happened to be recording a video, and then captured him coming towards them. OR he crept up on them quick, and she only had time to hit record.

No, people develop the 6th sense that warns them of danger. I think she felt “danger”, she just did not know that he was a killer.

I went through a situation to prove this, so I know this feeling, when you suddenly see big red letters “danger” before your eyes. This is the only thing I am positive of. I don’t know who the BG was, his age, I am prepared to doubt everything, but not this.

I am 100% sure that Libby had the same feeling that had once warned me. “Danger” you feel, you just don’t know what kind of a danger it could be. I think that she might have taken him for a garden-variety pervert, not for a killer.

 

[Maplesyrup]

I have been thinking he may have came up onto the bridge at the SE end very close to where the girls were and walked past them setting them on high alert [prompting Libby to start the video]. He could have walked a few yards further toward the NW end while making sure he didn't see anyone coming from that end. He already knew the SE end was clear having just arrived from that direction. All he had to do was spin around and move fast toward the girls on the SE end and hustle them down the hill. Maybe he'd already been lurking in the cemetery area just before coming over to the bridge and up the hill on the SE end. I know most everyone assumes he walked the entire length of the bridge from NW to SE...maybe he didn't?

 

[BNA]

If the timeline the family shared on Dr Phil (re-thread #76) is correct - - the photo of Abby’s on the bridge was sent by SC at 2:07pm (was it sent immediately after the pic was taken, unknown).
- Libby’s video of the man on the bridge was captured at appx 2:30pm,
- DG first attempted to call his daughter at 3:11pm immediately prior to arriving and then again at 3:14pm when he arrived at the pickup location.

So it’s estimated the attack took place somewhere within a timeframe 41 minutes, between 2:30pm and 3:11pm.

ISP have recently stated the girls were murdered “within minutes” of Libby’s photo of the man. Assumably the DTH audio was recorded by Libby upon his closer approach.

By the marking on the ties in the photo it appears he came from the NW, approaching the SE end (re GH’s videos) but it’s unknown if he walked the entire length towards them or where he came from.

It has been reported the bridge can be crossed in 5 minutes at a brisk pace iirc.

What happened in the 23 mins between the pic of Abby and the video of BG?

 

[Boxer]

Something that gets me, and please dont take this as a slight at Libby who did amazing capturing her killer.

But I kept help but to wonder, and forgive me if this has been covered before, but if she was suspicious of something, video recording him seems like an odd choice.

Seems like pretending to be on the phone, talking to someone, would be more of a deterrent to keep the guy away.

Or ACTUALLY call someone, just to have someone on the phone. That seems like it would likely prevent someone from approaching them, because whoever she was on the phone with (or who he thought she was on the phone with) would be alerted right away that something was wrong.

Filming him (allegedly unbeknownst to BG) doesnt stop anything from happening. Only documents that something did. It does nothing to help them out of the situation, only provides clues to what did.

So to me it seems much more likely that Libby just happened to be recording a video, and then captured him coming towards them. OR he crept up on them quick, and she only had time to hit record.

I agree.
MOO I think BG came from south side of the bridge, walked out past them far enough to see the other side clearly, suddenly turned around and aggressed on them. I think this because MOO if they saw a man approaching that far in advance on the bridge, they would at least try not be on the bridge itself by the time he got to them.