OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#48

[Betty P]

.

 

[Betty P]

I’d imagine there is also enough direct evidence since it appears that most of the circumstantial evidence that we know existed long before arrests were made. Imagine the circumstancial evidence we don’t yet know. And also imagine the direct evidence yet to be disclosed.

There’s a lot of things that are yet to be answered. But IMO, there’s enough known now and there was enough known long before arrests to know who’s guilty and who is not.

In the meantime, I’m still sticking with the prosecution having enough evidence to place each defendant at each of the four locations in order to indict all of them on charges of aggravated burglary. LE and investigators can use a lot of tactics in their work but what they cannot do is make up evidence in order to secure an indictment. I have to believe that there was enough evidence presented to the Grand Jurors that was so overwhelming convincing the Jurors chose to indict. JMHO

Yes, IANAL and we don't know how prosecutors feel, but I think they have plenty of evidence, including some strong direct evidence. The voluminous amount of digital evidence - emails, texts, phone calls, hacking and surveillance evidence, etc. will be more than sufficient to back up DNA, fingerprints, blood and other direct evidence. There will probably be many texts, phone calls, internet logins, etc. that will reveal communications among the killers to plan, execute and cover up evidence in the murders.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Your probably right, the autopsy of KR indicates he was killed around the same time that Hanna, Cris Jr and Dana, not like big Chris

Yes, that seems most likely. News reports state CR1 may have been killed prior to the other family members. They were a little vague about the timeline for the other murders, but then again, these were preliminary ARs.

Rhoden family massacre: Autopsy reports indicate one victim was awake when fatally shot

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

And I think Angie wasn't there but is being charged with Burglary because she was involved with setting it up and getting rid of the stolen items. Under "complicated" Burglary Conspiracy Laws, some States will charge you for Burglary even if your not there. But it's too complicated to figure out without a criminal attorney to explain it.

So even though I'm in the minority here, I believe Angie stayed home to help set up an alibi and to watch the kids. And I think even though she wasn't there, the prosecution doesn't care, they all conspired and planned and destroyed evidence so they all get the same charges. Same with the murders. Angie is charged with murder even if she wasn't there.

And they are all being charged for Burglary even if one of them was just the look out and didn't go in any homes, even if one of them just sat in the car the whole time.

We will see who guessed right at trial. I hope we find this out. The prosecution may bring up evidence that does prove Angie was at the scenes.

We will agree to disagree then.

Don't let her soft motherly look fool you.

I think Angie was right along with the three men and firing just as many shots. She just doesn't strike me as the type woman who would trust the men to carry out her plan without making a mistake. She would have wanted to be there to make sure the men did not make any mistakes.

JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

WAVERLY — If the detectives are right, the planning of eight homicides that were carried out in four Pike County homes began more than three months before, in January 2016.

Over the course of those months, prosecutors now say, a married couple and their two adult sons precisely tracked the movements of their targets — their longtime friends. They learned their routines, studied the layouts of their residences, paid close attention to where each person slept, even determined the spots where pets might prove a threat.

Prosecutors say the Wagners — George “Billy” III, 47; Angela, 48; and sons Edward “Jake,” 26, and George IV, 27 — hacked into the Rhoden family’s computers and social media accounts, maybe even listened in on their phone conversations. They say the foursome used countersurveillance devices to search the Rhoden properties to see where video cameras might be recording their own movements or picking up their sounds.

Eventually, they went shopping.

According to the documents filed in Pike County Common Pleas Court last week charging each of the four Wagners with eight counts of aggravated murder and a host of other crimes related to the Rhoden family slayings on April 22, 2016, they either bought or built what they needed to carry out their plan. The documents indicate they bought special shoes at Walmart and “brass catchers,” specially designed bags that connect to a gun and collect the spent shell casings. Prosecutors say they bought ammunition, gun clips and equipment to build their own silencers to muffle the blasts
Hey I got a question to ask all you websleutrs, How do you all think the 4 Wagners paid for all this stuff? Did they use FW credit card, if so she got the bill for it that would make her an part of the murders if she didn’t say anything.

 

[Merrygirl]

I tend to agree that she was at least laying in bed when approached. I’m sure whether she was asleep or awake will remain a mystery, unless of course the trials disclose evidence of Dana not being in bed. JMO

MTO but I don’t believe she was in the bedroom or bed. Early on it was reported by AM that JM & his son Cody went to check on Dana, CRjr and HMR. IIRC, he opened the door, saw Dana’s feet and could hear the baby crying so he backed out (or something similar to that verbiage.). I believe DR was relaxing with the TV on, fell asleep in a recliner with the recliner stretched out. If she was asleep the W4 could slip in and hold the gun under her chin. She may have awakened at that point....JMOO

 

[Betty P]

Betty, wouldn’t all four of the Wagners had to have been at each crime scene since all four of them are charged with four counts of burglary (one for each crime scene)?

We discussed this quite a bit when the indictments were released to the public. From what was posted earlier from Ohio law and burglary, I'm not sure. IANAL. IIRC, they can be charged with murder even if they weren't at the crime scene. JMO, they stacked on as many charges as possible on all 4 and will see which ones stick. Recall the evidence about special shoes they purchased. If all 4 purchased these shoes, it may have been possible for LE to reconstruct the exact number of people at each crime scene. There had to be so much blood at most of the crime scenes, especially CR1 and Gary.

So far, though, mention of the shoe evidence hasn't shown up in the discovery docs we've seen. Then again, we're not seeing all of it. There's also evidence from weapons, ballistics. IDK, it's hard to say. I'll think some more about it.

We also haven't looked at all the case law on how burglary charges have been applied. It's possible there have been rulings in cases that declared someone could be charged and convicted if they weren't actually participating, but were nearby, knew what was going on and assisted in some way.

Also, keep in mind that all a person needs to do to be charged with aggravated burglary (and found guilty) is to trespass in someone's home (by stealth, force or deception) with a deadly weapon with the purpose to commit a crime. If all 4 W's walked into the homes, with guns, knew a murder was being committed and went along with it, seems to me they could be charged, whether or not they pulled a trigger.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...cial-Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments

Aggravated burglary begins at Count 10.

IANAL so this is just my reading of the charges. Whether or not they actually held a gun or used it to facilitate the burglary or murder will determine which of the three specifications apply. If they were just holding a gun while they did the trespassing, only the first specification applies. If they brandished it and used it to commit murder, the second one applies. If it was an automatic weapon, the third applies.

IIRC, some of us here surmised the aggravated burglary charges will add to the sentences of each of the Wags if they are found guilty.

All JMO.

Also, regarding intent to commit a crime, if each of the W's entered a Rhoden home with a weapon, they probably had intent to commit a crime/murder. Even if they weren't the designated shooter, if they were prepared to use their weapon in the event one of the victims shot at them in defense or tried to escape the home, then, JMO, they had intent to murder.

Hope that makes sense, haha.

ETA: Also adding that, as read in this decision (though that's not what it was about), the purpose of these charges usually is to add time to the maximum sentence of murder or whatever crime was committed.

State v. Gaines, 46 Ohio St. 3d 65 | Casetext

Yes, this is a sloppy way of making this point, haha. JMO IANAL

 

[Puzzles8]

I’d imagine there is also enough direct evidence since it appears that most of the circumstantial evidence that we know existed long before arrests were made. Imagine the circumstancial evidence we don’t yet know. And also imagine the direct evidence yet to be disclosed.

There’s a lot of things that are yet to be answered. But IMO, there’s enough known now and there was enough known long before arrests to know who’s guilty and who is not.

In the meantime, I’m still sticking with the prosecution having enough evidence to place each defendant at each of the four locations in order to indict all of them on charges of aggravated burglary. LE and investigators can use a lot of tactics in their work but what they cannot do is make up evidence in order to secure an indictment. I have to believe that there was enough evidence presented to the Grand Jurors that was so overwhelming convincing the Jurors chose to indict. JMHO

I think the conspiracy charge makes the W4 equally liable for the group's actions, whether they were all at each crime scene or not.
JMO

 

[Betty P]

I think the conspiracy charge makes the W4 equally liable for the groups actions, whether they all at each crime scene or not.

Yes, JMO/IANAL/ICBW, if the prosecution can prove Count 9, the conspiracy charge (all the planning, hacking, surveillance, shopping together, etc. done by the 4 Wagners) it helps tie the murder and burglary and specifications and other charges to all four.

I have a feeling, though, the defense attorneys are going to try to separate all these activities and make it difficult for the prosecution to get a guilty verdict on all the activities in the conspiracy charge. Kind of like trying to pull on a few loose threads to make the charge fall apart. IDK if they can do that or if it will work. That conspiracy charge has a lot packed into it from forging the docs to shopping (online or at Walmart, etc.), building silencers, surveillance of the victims, etc.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...cial-Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments

Just thinking about it makes us realize all over again how complicated these trials are going to be. I think I'm going to have to make some spreadsheets for each of the 4 Ws.

JMO

ETA: JMO If, by chance, AW wasn't at all the crime scenes, may still be convicted of murder, conspiracy, etc all the other charges. She will only get fewer years added onto her sentence. So, instead of getting 400 yrs in prison, she'll only get 300 yrs or something.

Murder convictions with all the specifications (tallying up more years in prison) is going to bombard the 4 Wagners. Adding years for aggravated burglary is just "bouncing the rubble" as they say. JMO

 

[MittenScarpetta]

WAVERLY — If the detectives are right, the planning of eight homicides that were carried out in four Pike County homes began more than three months before, in January 2016.

Over the course of those months, prosecutors now say, a married couple and their two adult sons precisely tracked the movements of their targets — their longtime friends. They learned their routines, studied the layouts of their residences, paid close attention to where each person slept, even determined the spots where pets might prove a threat.

Prosecutors say the Wagners — George “Billy” III, 47; Angela, 48; and sons Edward “Jake,” 26, and George IV, 27 — hacked into the Rhoden family’s computers and social media accounts, maybe even listened in on their phone conversations. They say the foursome used countersurveillance devices to search the Rhoden properties to see where video cameras might be recording their own movements or picking up their sounds.

Eventually, they went shopping.

According to the documents filed in Pike County Common Pleas Court last week charging each of the four Wagners with eight counts of aggravated murder and a host of other crimes related to the Rhoden family slayings on April 22, 2016, they either bought or built what they needed to carry out their plan. The documents indicate they bought special shoes at Walmart and “brass catchers,” specially designed bags that connect to a gun and collect the spent shell casings. Prosecutors say they bought ammunition, gun clips and equipment to build their own silencers to muffle the blasts
Hey I got a question to ask all you websleutrs, How do you all think the 4 Wagners paid for all this stuff? Did they use FW credit card, if so she got the bill for it that would make her an part of the murders if she didn’t say anything.

Cash. Prepaid credit cards maybe?

 

[Niner]

Monday, June 10th:
*Pretrial Hearing (@ 10am ET) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (38). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos) and a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) – Only for *George Washington Wagner IV (27) (Jakes’ bro) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18) & charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/28/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count conspiracy, 4 counts aggravated burglary, 1 count unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts evidence tampering, 1 count forgery, 1 count unauthorized use of property, 1 count interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count obstructing justice, 1 count engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Court hearings from 11/28/18 thru 3/22/19 reference post #608 here:
OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#48
5/23/19 Update: Pretrial hearing has been continued to 6/10 @ 10am.
ALSO:
*Pretrial & Motions Hearing (@ 2pm ET) - Only for *Edward Jacob "Jake" Wagner (26) (former boyfriend of Hanna) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/27/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count conspiracy, 4 counts aggravated burglary, 1 count unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts evidence tampering, 1 count forgery, 1 count unauthorized use of property, 1 count interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count obstructing justice, 1 count engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity & unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. (He’s accused of engaging in sexual contact with Hanna Rhoden when she was 15 & he was 20). Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Court hearings from 11/27/18 thru 4/4/19 reference post #142 here:
OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#48
5/13/19 Update: Moved hearing to 5/14. 5/14/19: Next pretrial hearing on 6/10.
*George Washington Wagner III – Motions hearing on 9/17.
*Angela Jo Wagner – Pretrial hearing on 5/16. 5/16 hearing rescheduled to 7/3. Discovery hearing 9/16.
*Rita Jo Newcomb - Pretrial hearing on 6/14. Trial is scheduled for July 8–11.
*Fredericka Carol Wagner – Pretrial hearing on 6/26. Trial scheduled for 7/29 thru 8/2.

 

[Fletcher73]

My opinion only but I think the shot under the chin was done while she was standing and then the other 4 shots, which were all on the same side of her head, were done after she fell. They grabbed her and it was very personal, she stood up for her daughter and they wanted to make her pay.

I agree with you that DR was grabbed and shot under the chin - the autopsy describes broken bones as if she was violently grabbed at the head/neck - jmo - I think the shooter(s) hauled her to show her to hear/see her son & daughter being killed.

I also think the many shots for DR and HHG indicate the killer's anger toward those two women because they helped HMR get independent from JW - jmo, moo.

 

[YESorNO]

Pike County murders: Wagner brothers to appear for pretrial hearings today

June 10, 2019

"WAVERLY — A pretrial hearing is scheduled today for both of the Wagner brothers who are suspected, along with their parents, of murdering eight members of another family in Pike County in 2016.

George Wagner IV and Edward “Jake” Wagner have been charged with planning and carrying out the deaths of eight Rhoden family members on April 22, 2016. George “Billy” Wagner III and Angela Wagner, their parents, were also indicted on multiple charges, including eight counts of aggravated murder in the grisly slayings.

Each count -- for each victim -- carries a death penalty specification.

Fredericka Wagner, the mother of Billy Wagner, and Rita Newcomb, the mother of Angela Wagner, were indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice.

Jake Wagner additionally is accused of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. The charge accuses him of engaging in sexual contact with Hanna Rhoden when she was 15. The two share a child, Sophia, who was 2 when her mother was killed....

George Wagner IV and Edward “Jake” Wagner will appear for separate hearings in Pike County Common Pleas Court. "

https://www.whio.com/news/local/pik...etrial-hearings-today/Z5EZR3vT2Zn9HOcgFhLfpN/

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I was reading AW defense motion she ask for the Juvenile Records of the Witnesses, did she tell someone what they did, AW knows who that witnesses might be, JMO

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

Well how convenient that the Wagner brothers are both scheduled in pike county court on the same day.

 

[Cool Cats]

Pike County murders: Wagner brothers to appear for pretrial hearings today

June 10, 2019

"WAVERLY — A pretrial hearing is scheduled today for both of the Wagner brothers who are suspected, along with their parents, of murdering eight members of another family in Pike County in 2016.

George Wagner IV and Edward “Jake” Wagner have been charged with planning and carrying out the deaths of eight Rhoden family members on April 22, 2016. George “Billy” Wagner III and Angela Wagner, their parents, were also indicted on multiple charges, including eight counts of aggravated murder in the grisly slayings.

Each count -- for each victim -- carries a death penalty specification.

Fredericka Wagner, the mother of Billy Wagner, and Rita Newcomb, the mother of Angela Wagner, were indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice.

Jake Wagner additionally is accused of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. The charge accuses him of engaging in sexual contact with Hanna Rhoden when she was 15. The two share a child, Sophia, who was 2 when her mother was killed....

George Wagner IV and Edward “Jake” Wagner will appear for separate hearings in Pike County Common Pleas Court. "

Pretrial hearing today for Wagner brothers in Pike County murders

Yes today thankx, try -- Watch

George IV at 10:00am
Jake at 2:00pm

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

Yes today thankx, try -- Watch

George IV at 10:00am
Jake at 2:00pm

Just have to wonder, how likely it is they would actually see each other. I have to wonder if the court date was manipulated for them both to be in the court house on the same day, I realize 4 hours apart, but there could be overlapping of time at the court house

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I agree with you that DR was grabbed and shot under the chin - the autopsy describes broken bones as if she was violently grabbed at the head/neck - jmo - I think the shooter(s) hauled her to show her to hear/see her son & daughter being killed.

I also think the many shots for DR and HHG indicate the killer's anger toward those two women because they helped HMR get independent from JW - jmo, moo.

But bullets perforating the head cause fractures. Is it possible the fractures were caused by the five gunshot wounds? Also, I don’t see any fractures noted on Dana’s autopsy. If fractures are present, they’ve been redacted, but I don’t think the public knows either way if there were or weren’t fractures.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...BCI/Pike-County-Final-Autopsies-REDACTED.aspx

 

[Betty P]

Yes today thankx, try -- Watch

George IV at 10:00am
Jake at 2:00pm

I have a feeling these will go quickly, like the others. Most of the discussions about these cases seem to be happening in the judge's chambers. I was watching a California trial the other day where attorneys made arguments about motions, etc. on camera, with the jury dismissed. Very different there in Pike County, but perhaps some of that is because these are pre-trial hearings.

I understand the need to have some secrecy re evidence, etc. that they don't want to make public, but there should be some minimal public summary about the general nature of the motions being made and the reasons for decisions the judge is making.

The reason legal proceedings are supposed to be open is because the public needs to be assured that the law is being followed. It's possible to both protect the rights of the client/victims and still be accountable to the public. We're citizens, not a television audience.

 

[Betty P]

Monday, June 10th:
*Pretrial Hearing (@ 10am ET) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (38). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos) and a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) – Only for *George Washington Wagner IV (27) (Jakes’ bro) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18) & charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/28/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count conspiracy, 4 counts aggravated burglary, 1 count unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts evidence tampering, 1 count forgery, 1 count unauthorized use of property, 1 count interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count obstructing justice, 1 count engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Court hearings from 11/28/18 thru 3/22/19 reference post #608 here:
OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#48
5/23/19 Update: Pretrial hearing has been continued to 6/10 @ 10am.
ALSO:
*Pretrial & Motions Hearing (@ 2pm ET) - Only for *Edward Jacob "Jake" Wagner (26) (former boyfriend of Hanna) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/27/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count conspiracy, 4 counts aggravated burglary, 1 count unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts evidence tampering, 1 count forgery, 1 count unauthorized use of property, 1 count interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count obstructing justice, 1 count engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity & unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. (He’s accused of engaging in sexual contact with Hanna Rhoden when she was 15 & he was 20). Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Court hearings from 11/27/18 thru 4/4/19 reference post #142 here:
OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#48
5/13/19 Update: Moved hearing to 5/14. 5/14/19: Next pretrial hearing on 6/10.
*George Washington Wagner III – Motions hearing on 9/17.
*Angela Jo Wagner – Pretrial hearing on 5/16. 5/16 hearing rescheduled to 7/3. Discovery hearing 9/16.
*Rita Jo Newcomb - Pretrial hearing on 6/14. Trial is scheduled for July 8–11.
*Fredericka Carol Wagner – Pretrial hearing on 6/26. Trial scheduled for 7/29 thru 8/2.

Thank you, Niner for all your help! These are great case summaries!