Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #5

[shanadk]

Leaning toward consensual disappearance right now. Wanted to leave and did.
There is no evidence of foul play that has been shared.
Meeting someone could simply indicate that they left together.
If she did choose to leave, I pray it doesn't end in self harm.
But I don't feel this lady was in a very good mental state.
~~~

 

[SoCalGirl]

I'll preface this by saying this is JMO and none of it was shared with the purpose of being in violation of TOS or rules. Please let me know if there are issues.

1. They have jobs.
While we would hope the employers would be sensitive in a situation like this, you never know. They may also feel that working can help distract them while police investigate.

Mom runs an in-home daycare center and I've seen NO activity at the house to indicate kids are being dropped off/picked up at this time.

2. They have children living at their home.

The "children" living at home are both over 18.

4. They don't feel they can contribute much in the way of being present in Salt Lake City.

Agreed.

Obviously this is speculation, but in my mind it is understandable why her parents have not made the decision to travel to Utah (that we know of). Just my own thinking here.

 

[poppydarling]

From the last thread:

poppydarling said :

“Essentially. It’s very similar to any traditional means of dating. Which is why it is emotionally charged when sex work, sadness, or lack of autonomy is suggested. That’s simply not the driving force. It’s very close to what is considered mainstream.“

—-

Disclaimer I haven’t had my coffee yet. I am not attacking anyone in this post FTR:

Similar to traditional means of dating? I’m honestly not seeing the correlation here. Traditional means of dating imo is going on a date with someone because you are interested in them, are possibly attracted to them, enjoy spending time with them. Not because you want something from them necessarily. If these men didn’t have money, then the ladies wouldn’t want to go out with them. This in itself inserts a variable of artificiality, fake was and materialism. This is nothing like traditional dating, imo, just because they go to a movie or restaurant it doesn’t make it the same, imo.


I’m really concerned about what I’m reading here. Young ladies seeing this as safe. Does it take something like what this for young ladies to open their eyes? I’m not explaining myself well but I’m not getting this discussion at all and am VERy CONCERNED about what is seeing to be viewed as normalized.

Which I’m not sure I agree with that either—-just because some young ladies here state this is normal and accepted and not frowned upon, that doesn’t mean the rest of America feels this way. I can think of plenty of young people who would say this is not appropriate or Safe.

This is a crime forum. Any kind of justification that this is safe behavior I am not in agreement with.

I appreciate the respectful discussion and if this is abrasive, I don’t know how else to word it.

Yes I’m all about female liberation and equality of power and all that stuff. Of course I am. Adults have the freedom to make their own choices.

Would I be concerned if my friends or family members were meeting up with strange men because they had money? Of course I would! Wouldn’t anyone?

I just woke up and need coffee but I am NOt feeling what's been put down here in these posts, moo.

I am not attacking anyone and mean this post as respectfully and academically as I can state it.

The more young women think this is normal or safe, the less they have their guard down.


Of course the majority of these men have sexual expectations, moo.

Again, for all the female libbers out there, believe me I am on your side. I am just saying ImO this is not safe, meeting up with some older man because he has money.

Adults are adults and are free to have whatever kinds of relationships they want. I am all about a “May to December” romance ftr, as both of my exes are much older than me.


I’m not here to impose my morals on anyone, but I refuse to sit here on a crime forum and read about how these types of relationships to not pose very real danger concerns.

I completely understand your concern. I do not think you are wrong for having feelings connected to this, especially linked to your own moral decisions. I completely respect that and understand this is considered a taboo/concerning topic.

I am simply trying to educate and keep the conversation away from the sugar lifestyle being inaccurately represented.

All means of dating in this current day have risks and should be entered into with concern and awareness. That said, sugar babies typically (not always) are very intelligently and diligently entering into relationships, arguably moreso than other casual dating.

With all things risks are involved, but there is not a large range of empirical research to suggest that consenting sugar relationships are any more risky than a traditional dating relationship.

I know it is hard to understand, especially when you have concerns and fears. And perhaps it is out of what you’d be accepting of for yourself, child, or friend. That’s ok. I understand that. But it is something that actively happens for lots of girls and men. It is a relationship that exists and pretending it doesn’t makes it even more taboo, shameful, and potentially more dangerous.

As always, happy to answer questions.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

From the last thread:

poppydarling said :

“Essentially. It’s very similar to any traditional means of dating. Which is why it is emotionally charged when sex work, sadness, or lack of autonomy is suggested. That’s simply not the driving force. It’s very close to what is considered mainstream.“

—-

Disclaimer I haven’t had my coffee yet. I am not attacking anyone in this post FTR:

Similar to traditional means of dating? I’m honestly not seeing the correlation here. Traditional means of dating imo is going on a date with someone because you are interested in them, are possibly attracted to them, enjoy spending time with them. Not because you want something from them necessarily. If these men didn’t have money, then the ladies wouldn’t want to go out with them. This in itself inserts a variable of artificiality, fake was and materialism. This is nothing like traditional dating, imo, just because they go to a movie or restaurant it doesn’t make it the same, imo.


I’m really concerned about what I’m reading here. Young ladies seeing this as safe. Does it take something like what this for young ladies to open their eyes? I’m not explaining myself well but I’m not getting this discussion at all and am VERy CONCERNED about what is seeing to be viewed as normalized.

Which I’m not sure I agree with that either—-just because some young ladies here state this is normal and accepted and not frowned upon by their peers, that doesn’t mean the rest of America feels this way. I can think of plenty of young people who would say this is not appropriate or safe. Meeting some strange man because he has MONeY.

This is a crime forum. Any kind of justification that this is safe behavior I am not in agreement with.

I appreciate the respectful discussion and if this is abrasive, I don’t know how else to word it.

Yes I’m all about female liberation and equality of power and all that stuff. Of course I am. Adults have the freedom to make their own choices.

Would I be concerned if my friends or family members were meeting up with strange men because they had money? Of course I would! Wouldn’t anyone?

I just woke up and need coffee but I am NOt feeling what's been put down here in these posts, moo.

I am not attacking anyone and mean this post as respectfully and academically as I can state it.

The more young women think this is normal or safe, the less they have their guards down.

Of course the majority of these men have sexual expectations! Moo.

Again, for all the female libbers out there, believe me I am on your side. I am just saying ImO this is not safe, meeting up with some older man because he has money.

Adults are adults and are free to have whatever kinds of relationships they want. I am all about a “May to December” romance ftr, as both of my exes are much older than me.

I’m not here to impose my morals on anyone, but I refuse to sit here on a crime forum and read about how these types of relationships do not pose very real danger concerns.

This 1000%!!

 

[whitelilac]

I would think that Kenzie stayed with her family in El Segundo, particularly because she was there for a family member's funeral. And likely was driven to LAX by a family member since LAX is practically next door.
But this is not confirmed, so who knows ?

 

[Jethro4WS]

Use of plane wi-fi might make it easier to hunt down a burner phone?

I would think it would.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

<modsnipped quoted post and direct reply to it> I have a lot of experience having been in LE and with SD/SB cases especially - I could illuminate some aspects of those relationships much more

I’m not at all impressed by the FBI joining in. IIRC they joined in on the case of that blonde mom who swore some Mexican ladies kidnapped her or something and then released her on Thanksgiving. That entire case was beyond sketchy and it was fairly obvious it was not what the family portrayed it to be.

I was in LE and often worked with various FBI Agents. In fact, when I first got into LE one of them trained me. These people are not your average police officers - most often they have a Master's Degree or higher, are incredibly smart (way above average), are completely self-motivated (they will work a case 100%), and are very healthy and physically fit (more than 90% of us). I have only been impressed by them, and I always learn from them as well. These folks genuinely care; they also have nearly unlimited resources - personnel, technology, etc. Just because they don't make an arrest doesn't mean they didn't try - remember, many cases have to be run by the State's Attorney for approval, and then to determine the charges. I've had a few cases that I thought were cut-and-dry whereby the SA declined to take the case, and wanted me to acquire more evidence, statements, etc. Sometimes the SA will even have to discuss the case with their supervisor - the SA may want to move forward with charges, and their supervisor overrides that decision. Have faith in the FBI, Marshals, DEA, etc - they're on the side of victims, and will work tirelessly to give these victims a voice and to put the offender behind bars.

 

[interestedincases]

I have not read this entire thread yet, but I am aware of ML's SD/SB stuff, and it's always a possibility this SD offered something she really wanted more than school.
Like a trip around the world and a proposal. IE a ring.
I know it isn't common for those relationships to cross those lines, but it can happen. ML was NOT a stripper or exotic dancer, but I have also known plenty of them that went on to successfully and happily marry men they met in their occupation.
That's the best case scenario for her IMO.
On the other hand, it's obvious that she isn't in contact with anyone to let them know she is safe.
So no longer voluntary on her part.
Just thinking outloud. There could have been a huge argument, or an accident, and it wasn't reported and she isn't with us anymore.
Or maybe they are both missing, which I highly doubt.
She could have been involuntary drugged without her knowing it.
I know lots of women who have sugar daddies.
It's been around forever, just not always referred to in that way.
Even older women have them.
Hoping LE is getting a full dump of her complete cell phone right now, though I also think she could have 2 phones.
MacKenzie where are you?
Chi (no stigmas in my world)

The thought did run through my head also that she was possibly "talked into" taking off and "leaving everything behind". She does NOT seem the type, but she was highly emotional and might be easily coerced. Not top of my list, but it is on there. I think at some point though the excitement would wear off and she would miss everyone and try to contact home.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Ok.. possible theory A male friend NOT SD related or someone she sees in a romantic way, but he likes her, sends her a message while she’s at the airport he’s just chilling smoking some weed in his car does she want to meet he will drop her home, she’s already booked her Lyft so he just tells her where he is and she gets dropped off to have a smoke with a friend. But he wants to be more than friends, and has become obsessed with her and jealous of the fact that she’s a SB, he makes a move and the rest has been written many times in this forum, sadly.

I’m trying to come from every direction possible because if whoever did this is the type of person I described above then he will be wanting the attention to focus on the sugar lifestyle as that is the red flag staring us in the face. What if he’s someone she considers a friend who’s been obsessing over her? moo

 

[diggndeeperstill]

So she states she’s looking for “a real connection”.

Perhaps she felt really connected to an individual who just could not commit back, and would possibly go to great lengths to protect their secret.

From what I’ve read that is code speak in sugar lifestyle for a monthly allowance.
Not a pay per meet situation.

 

[wary]

THIS.
She hires a car and rides with a stranger across town with large suitcase to a small park in the dead of night.
I do not believe ML was in a positive mental state.
And that affects everything.

“Rides with a stranger?” That seems to me to be an overly dramatic way of putting it. Lyft, Uber, cab, the driver’s a stranger, but they’re all accepted means of transportation when you don’t have a car handy.

Now, the park in the middle of the night—I agree with you that that’s weird. However, I was extremely glad to hear that it was a small park, not a large park.

 

[InTarzana]

I don't find it odd but I do find it interesting, because I agree. Her parents don't seem very concerned and maybe that is in itself a clue (of course they could be freaking out and just not doing so publicly). But they know their daughter, presumably. Maybe they know she was ready to run off and do something else with her life. Have you ever been around people who express a desire to do that? Even off-handedly, they'll say "I wish I didn't have to work and could just be independently wealthy and live on the beach" or something. Well, maybe she's one of those people but she meant it.

I find this implausible. She abandoned her beloved cat that she had a birthday party for. I'm a vet, and know how people are with their kitties and THAT makes me lean very strongly toward an involuntary disappearance.

 

[ClaireNC]

Trust me, this is crossing the minds of every college kid I’ve spoken with here. They are all feeling vulnerable and want to know how this happened and if it is going to happen again. All very worried for her. Most of these kids live on or near Greek row and it’s such a small community that everyone knows a friend of a friend who knows her.

Sending prayers and positive energy to y’all. I know that fear that grips the community. This happened in my town: Found Deceased - NC - Hania Noelia Aguilar, 13, abducted, Lumberton, 5 Nov 2018

 

[savedabeez20]

I completely understand your concern. I do not think you are wrong for having feelings connected to this, especially linked to your own moral decisions. I completely respect that and understand this is considered a taboo/concerning topic.

I am simply trying to educate and keep the conversation away from the sugar lifestyle being inaccurately represented.

All means of dating in this current day have risks and should be entered into with concern and awareness. That said, sugar babies typically (not always) are very intelligently and diligently entering into relationships, arguably moreso than other casual dating.

With all things risks are involved, but there is not a large range of empirical research to suggest that consenting sugar relationships are any more risky than a traditional dating relationship.

I know it is hard to understand, especially when you have concerns and fears. And perhaps it is out of what you’d be accepting of for yourself, child, or friend. That’s ok. I understand that. But it is something that actively happens for lots of girls and men. It is a relationship that exists and pretending it doesn’t makes it even more taboo, shameful, and potentially more dangerous.

As always, happy to answer questions.

Ok.. possible theory A male friend NOT SD related or someone she sees in a romantic way, but he likes her, sends her a message while she’s at the airport he’s just chilling smoking some weed in his car does she want to meet he will drop her home, she’s already booked her Lyft so he just tells her where he is and she gets dropped off to have a smoke with a friend. But he wants to be more than friends, and has become obsessed with her and jealous of the fact that she’s a SB, he makes a move and the rest has been written many times in this forum, sadly.

I’m trying to come from every direction possible because if whoever did this is the type of person I described above then he will be wanting the attention to focus on the sugar lifestyle as that is the red flag staring us in the face. What if he’s someone she considers a friend who’s been obsessing over her? moo

YUP! This has been my theory since day 1. I don't think it should be undermined just because of her dating lifestyle.

 

[Roadette]

Why would she even need a burner phone? I don't really understand the justification for this idea.

Right? And abductor would, but she was pretty comfortable with her lifestyle and wouldn't need a burner phone.

Because someone with your real phone number can easily locate your address, etc. before you know anything about them. I’m not going to go into specifics about how but I’m willing to bet there are plenty of people here who know how to use a simple cell phone number lead them to addresses, family members, Facebook pages, snapchats, etc. Even if that is the ONLY bit of information you have.

If she’s the type of girl to use a fake name I would hope she used a burner - if not, it’s just sloppy. Some people might get pissy that it’s a VOIP/Google voice number but safety first.

If she’s the type to share her real name I doubt she had one.

 

[Seattle1]

I've followed most posts and have updated the media thread with others - I do not believe I have seen any comments about where she stayed in CA or how she got to the airport when she left. I will only make one comment on the large suitcase - as a college student perhaps that is the ONLY size she owns as a roller bag? She may use it whether she needs the space or not IMO.

I do believe she met someone she knew prior even if only through online/cell contact. It may or may not have been the first meeting in person - IMO. My guess is - this person is known to her and she was not afraid at all. Her phone records/bank records will tell the story JMO.

So true about the roller bag possibly being her only luggage.

Another thought is that Salt Lake City is a four seasons town - and with tight student living quarters, I believe it's possible that ML transferred her winter wardrobe home and returned with her summer wardrobe.

Also, I believe ML was reported to graduate spring 2020, and I'm curious if ML previously attended summer session.

MOO

 

[Jethro4WS]

Why would she even need a burner phone? I don't really understand the justification for this idea.

Well, in the press conference law enforcement asked for tips for information about any "social media accounts or a second phone - if she had one". So, law enforcement is asking if someone knows if Kenzie had a second phone to let them know.

For whatever reason, law enforcement thinks it is a possibility.

 

[bellesnwhistles]

While the stills we got from the footage look like potato quality, I am certain she isn't wearing sandals... and she may have a t-shirt but she was wearing a white cover up at least over it

Really? I do see sandals,

 

[Gardenista]

I have a lot of experience having been in LE and with SD/SB cases especially - I could illuminate some aspects of those relationships much more


I was in LE and often worked with various FBI Agents. In fact, when I first got into LE one of them trained me. These people are not your average police officers - most often they have a Master's Degree or higher, are incredibly smart (way above average), are completely self-motivated (they will work a case 100%), and are very healthy and physically fit (more than 90% of us). I have only been impressed by them, and I always learn from them as well. These folks genuinely care; they also have nearly unlimited resources - personnel, technology, etc. Just because they don't make an arrest doesn't mean they didn't try - remember, many cases have to be run by the State's Attorney for approval, and then to determine the charges. I've had a few cases that I thought were cut-and-dry whereby the SA declined to take the case, and wanted me to acquire more evidence, statements, etc. Sometimes the SA will even have to discuss the case with their supervisor - the SA may want to move forward with charges, and their supervisor overrides that decision. Have faith in the FBI, Marshals, DEA, etc - they're on the side of victims, and will work tirelessly to give these victims a voice and to put the offender behind bars.

I'd love to hear what you know.

 

[ClaireNC]

That statistic doesn’t mean that those men don’t have sexual contact with their SB, or others. It is talking about the DRIVING FORCE Behind these relationships. I apologize if the wording made that difficult to unpack for anyone. The driving force is typically more related to companionship/self esteem outcomes and not sexual outcomes. That isn’t to say that sex doesn’t come into play or isn’t something that is a variable in these relationship. Just that they aren’t* sex based relationships, usually.

Do you have a link to the research? I’d like to read it.