Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[Howcanppldosuch]

Time will tell. I see this differently, which makes the discussion and this forum really interesting. Your theory gives me a chance to examine this from a different perspective.

In my amateur profile, he knew of Libby from her classes at Purdue, catfished her on SM (or didn't even catfish; perhaps he wanted to "mentor" her in a subject and she was flattered an older guy was taking an interest), and the meeting time/place was prescriptive. I think Abby was a surprise to him.

Of course, just amateur speculation and opinion

Probably a really dumb question but what do you mean by catfished? I don’t think I ever heard the term

 

[rosesfromangels]

Probably a really dumb question but what do you mean by catfished? I don’t think I ever heard the term

Don't feel dumb, I had to look it up when I first heard it. It means something like contacting a teen girl and portraying yourself as a handsome young teen boy (pic and all), when you are really a 52 year old fat bald guy.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

Its worth reminding everyone that DNA in another Indiana murder case is being estimated to not be back till November (from April arrests) so it is taking months to come back ATM.

This case, Delphi girls, is so very much in the headlines, and every agency in the would would chip in and speed the dna testing thru, in my opinion. I also wonder if quantity of dna will give age but not identity, and that’s where the new age comes from?

 

[Boxer]

Don't feel dumb, I had to look it up when I first heard it. It means something like contacting a teen girl and portraying yourself as a handsome young teen boy (pic and all), when you are really a 52 year old fat bald guy.

Amateur opinion and speculation

MOO In his case, if there was luring them there by using another identity, I don't think it was to meet for a boy reason, if they didn't know him, MOO it is just too direct for their age and sensibilities. I do think it would be likely they would meet on the trail for "peer" gossip.
A lure such as: Someone said something about you, meet me at the bridge and I will tell you what they said.
This person would need enough info to be credible, and if true the assailant is in their large social circle.

 

[JustMe93]

Aerosmith. Dude looks like a lady. Lol

ETA: this was in response to the question asking what is catfishing

 

[rosesfromangels]

MOO In his case, if there was luring them there by using another identity, I don't think it was to meet for a boy reason, if they didn't know him, MOO it is just too direct for their age and sensibilities. I do think it would be likely they would meet on the trail for "peer" gossip.
A lure such as: Someone said something about you, meet me at the bridge and I will tell you what they said.
This person would need enough info to be credible, and if true the assailant is in their large social circle.

That's another good possibility

 

[sunshineray]

Or try clicking on the heading of the embedded video , rather than the actual play vid?

Ok I think I figured it out. I got a little pop up this time that said the 360 wasn't supported by my browser. I tried my other browser and got the same pop up message on that one also. I'm hoping new phone will be a better match. Thanks for all your help!

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Quoted snipped and BBM
Ding! Ding! Ding!

JMO

This is exactly what I believe has happened.

He was party to a discussion about the murders early on, but because of the nature of the discussion he was never, ever considered a suspect.

Think about Carter's body language at that April 22nd presser.
In my eyes, he appeared express a sense of betrayal.

All JMO

So wouldn’t that mean they have a specific person in mind? If in fact Carter’s body language did suggest that he felt betrayed, which I believe it did, wouldn’t that suggest that they at least have some indication of who committed the crime?
This, along with the release of the new sketch, makes me think they’re onto something IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

Quoted snipped and BBM
Ding! Ding! Ding!

JMO

This is exactly what I believe has happened.

He was party to a discussion about the murders early on, but because of the nature of the discussion he was never, ever considered a suspect.

Think about Carter's body language at that April 22nd presser.
In my eyes, he appeared express a sense of betrayal.

All JMO

Did you also notice that ISP Carter, when talking to the killer, kept looking to his right? I've seen the PC video from different angles so I believe the media was spread out...right, middle and left in the room.

 

[sunshineray]

So wouldn’t that mean they have a specific person in mind? If in fact Carter’s body language did suggest that he felt betrayed, which I believe it did, wouldn’t that suggest that they at least have some indication of who committed the crime?
This, along with the release of the new sketch, makes me think they’re onto something IMO.

That is the feeling I came away with from the April PC. They have a suspect. JMO

 

[bradfordsleuth]

So wouldn’t that mean they have a specific person in mind? If in fact Carter’s body language did suggest that he felt betrayed, which I believe it did, wouldn’t that suggest that they at least have some indication of who committed the crime?
This, along with the release of the new sketch, makes me think they’re onto something IMO.

Yes.

JMO....but I believe they have a very strong suspicion as to who committed the crime.

I think what is preventing an arrest is a false alibi and the need for an ironclad case to prosecute with complete success.

I believe this case is going to be bigger than we could have ever imagined when it goes to trial.

JMO

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Did you also notice that ISP Carter, when talking to the killer, kept looking to his right? I've seen the PC video from different angles so I believe the media was spread out...right, middle and left in the room.

Yup. I noticed his 'death stare' a few times but couldn't figure out exactly who it was directed towards.

I went frame by frame looking at all teeny tiny glimpses we had of the audience during that presser (and tweeted photos) to see who was there.

I did not see a match to the face I was looking for.

JMO

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Yes.

JMO....but I believe they have a very strong suspicion as to who committed the crime.

I think what is preventing an arrest is a false alibi and the need for an ironclad case to prosecute with complete success.

I believe this case is going to be bigger than we could have ever imagined when it goes to trial.

JMO

BBM
I absolutely agree. It’ll be a circus.

 

[cluciano63]

How do we suppose LE has ruled out the hundreds or more of tips for suspects etc over the years? Simply on alibis? Or do they have DNA and if so, why wouldn’t they test the DNA of this alleged person some of you seem to think they have in their “crosshairs”? I do not believe they would not have found a way to get the DNA in all this time. Not do I think they had a suspect at the time of the PC.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

How do we suppose LE has ruled out the hundreds or more of tips for suspects etc over the years? Simply on alibis? Or do they have DNA and if so, why wouldn’t they test the DNA of this alleged person some of you seem to think they have in their “crosshairs”? I do not believe they would not have found a way to get the DNA in all this time. Not do I think they had a suspect at the time of the PC.

JMO
I believe that is exactly what they had to do. From March 2017 ( and I don't think that much has changed in the interim.)

Police corroborating alibis given in Delphi killings

“We’re going deeper with alibis that are provided,” Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said. “Part of the reason … we have learned of people who have lied to us on the alibi.”

From the same article

"They’re seeing that maybe there are some discrepancies going on," Riley said about rechecking the alibis.“It’s just making sure we don’t miss something.”

For example, a team of investigators pore over the leads from the phone tip line — 844-459-5786 — and the email tip address — abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com. This team discards tips that already have been cleared and assigns investigators to follow up on new leads, Riley said.

Those investigators file reports after interviewing people, Riley said. Those reports, in turn, are read by other investigators, who often suggest there might be holes, omissions, lies or unasked questions. This sends the investigators back into the field for followup and more reports.

I think that BG was so covered up that there may not be usable DNA. JMO


ETA an additional article
Police continue investigation of several ‘people of interest’ a month into Delphi murder investigation
of-interest-a-month-into-delphi-murder-investigation/

Investigators have served approximately 70 search warrants and subpoenas, some as far away as Peru in Miami County, and checked on the probation status of dozens of sex offenders, many of whom were cleared as suspects in the murders based on interviews, alibis or polygraph examinations.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

My personal theory, JMO and speculation, is that one of the girls (my bet is on L) was inadvertently involved in something, saw something, or knew about something that, if revealed, would cause A LOT of problems for the adults also involved. I think it’s a strong possibility that her and A were either a) planning on meeting someone involved that day to talk it over, b) someone involved realized through SM that the girls would be alone on the bridge that day and decided to go there to confront them about the situation, or c) the girls were catfished by an individual involved who knew the girls would never agree to meet him at the Bridge alone.

Considering L recorded the suspect as he approached, my bet is on C.

I think the suspect is someone who is known to at least one of the girls, but likely only in her periphery. A friend of the family, perhaps. Someone who was around when nefarious things went down, but who did not have regular contact with her. Someone who posed himself as a helper during the investigation, and who LE believed had, until further investigation, a solid alibi and nothing to hide.

IMO I think it’s possible that there are at least two, if not more, people involved in the murders but only one person who actually committed the act. And I think they’re all covering for one another. If my theory is correct, these aren’t people living on the fringes of society—they have quite a bit to lose.

 

[sunshineray]

JMO
I believe that is exactly what they had to do. From March 2017 ( and I don't think that much has changed in the interim.)

Police corroborating alibis given in Delphi killings

“We’re going deeper with alibis that are provided,” Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said. “Part of the reason … we have learned of people who have lied to us on the alibi.”

From the same article

"They’re seeing that maybe there are some discrepancies going on," Riley said about rechecking the alibis.“It’s just making sure we don’t miss something.”

For example, a team of investigators pore over the leads from the phone tip line — 844-459-5786 — and the email tip address — abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com. This team discards tips that already have been cleared and assigns investigators to follow up on new leads, Riley said.

Those investigators file reports after interviewing people, Riley said. Those reports, in turn, are read by other investigators, who often suggest there might be holes, omissions, lies or unasked questions. This sends the investigators back into the field for followup and more reports.

I think that BG was so covered up that there may not be usable DNA. JMO


ETA an additional article
Police continue investigation of several ‘people of interest’ a month into Delphi murder investigation
of-interest-a-month-into-delphi-murder-investigation/

Investigators have served approximately 70 search warrants and subpoenas, some as far away as Peru in Miami County, and checked on the probation status of dozens of sex offenders, many of whom were cleared as suspects in the murders based on interviews, alibis or polygraph examinations.

More recently ISP Carter also said, when asked a specific question about the Delphi case while at the Flora fire PC, that not all immediates had been cleared. The vast majority had but not all. That he even choose to say this gives me pause about a lot that I'd taken for granted before I heard him say this. AJMO

 

[on the case]

Why does nearly every post assume Libby to be the target?

 

[MJPeony]

Why does nearly every post assume Libby to be the target?

Coming into this case only since March I’ve wondered the same. I think it’s because she is known to have had a rather extensive social media presence. I don’t know that she was particularly active on all the sites, but she did have quite a few accounts (FB, more than one twitter, instagram, kik, tic toc, etc). I don’t believe Abby was as much a part of the social media scene. Granted, this seems to be rationale for the crime being targeted, and having something to do with social media (which I personally do for the time being).

That’s the only reason I can think of, but perhaps there are others, and I’d be interested to hear.

 

[Boxer]

Coming into this case only since March I’ve wondered the same. I think it’s because she is known to have had a rather extensive social media presence. I don’t know that she was particularly active on all the sites, but she did have quite a few accounts (FB, more than one twitter, instagram, kik, tic toc, etc). I don’t believe Abby was as much a part of the social media scene. Granted, this seems to be rationale for the crime being targeted, and having something to do with social media (which I personally do for the time being).

That’s the only reason I can think of, but perhaps there are others, and I’d be interested to hear.

I have heard posters here state repeatedly that Libby was hurt more in the attack, though I have no idea how they could possibly have that information.