GUILTY NY - Phoenix & Luna Rodriguez, 1, twins, die in hot car, Bronx, 26 July 2019 *No jail*

[Reasonable & Just]

Why? Because that is your opinion? He could have driven all the way to day care and then noticed. What doggone difference does it make? They children are deceased. He’s devastated.

Again. I hope to gawd no one else suffers a loss such as this. Anyone. Including my fellow friends here. I know how it feels to suffer this loss. I know how I criticized others before I could grasp how it happens.

Last post. Promise.

Love and peace.

I'm so sorry you know this, cpeacock1. I can't imagine. Love and peace to you as well.

 

[Medstudies]

http://psychology.usf.edu/faculty/data/ddiamond_cv.pdf

There are studies related to the whys to find solutions. This is well written.

Btw: Relevant reading begins at page ten.

“...
Universal Observation of a False Memory
An important and universal observation of the reports from these parents and caretakers is based on their activity during the day after the child is left in the car. These parents go about their daily routine, sometimes for an entire day’s work and they even the use the car (with the deceased child in it) during the day, without the parent having any awareness the child is in the car. These people universally report having complete confidence that the child was safe, at the location where the parent had intended on taking the child. Indeed, many parents return to the daycare expecting to retrieve their child, only to be told that the child did not arrive at daycare that day. These individuals are then horrified to learn that their child spent the entire day in their car, with fatal consequences.
It is potentially of scientific value to explore the process by which the brain somehow creates the false memory that the person has fulfilled his/her task of bringing the child to daycare, or that the child was at home. It is notable that everyday routine activities that may involve the child, such as discussing the child with others, or having a picture of the child at the parent’s workplace, do not serve as reminders that the child is in the car since the brain has provided the person with the false memory that the child is safe at home or at daycare.....” pg 14

 

[blue22]

http://psychology.usf.edu/faculty/data/ddiamond_cv.pdf

There are studies related to the whys to find solutions. This is well written.

Btw: Relevant reading begins at page ten.

“...
Universal Observation of a False Memory
An important and universal observation of the reports from these parents and caretakers is based on their activity during the day after the child is left in the car. These parents go about their daily routine, sometimes for an entire day’s work and they even the use the car (with the deceased child in it) during the day, without the parent having any awareness the child is in the car. These people universally report having complete confidence that the child was safe, at the location where the parent had intended on taking the child. Indeed, many parents return to the daycare expecting to retrieve their child, only to be told that the child did not arrive at daycare that day. These individuals are then horrified to learn that their child spent the entire day in their car, with fatal consequences.
It is potentially of scientific value to explore the process by which the brain somehow creates the false memory that the person has fulfilled his/her task of bringing the child to daycare, or that the child was at home. It is notable that everyday routine activities that may involve the child, such as discussing the child with others, or having a picture of the child at the parent’s workplace, do not serve as reminders that the child is in the car since the brain has provided the person with the false memory that the child is safe at home or at daycare.....” pg 14

I fell down the science hole with Cooper Harris.

This guy doesn't fit some key criteria for Diamond's theories.

 

[Gardenista]

Dad charged in twins’ hot car deaths spotted after making bail
https://nypost.com/2019/07/29/dad-charged-in-twins-hot-car-deaths-spotted-after-making-bail/

 

[blue22]

What about that man recently found in a grocery store in IA? He fell behind a freezer and for months the employees and shoppers smelled a corpse and never did a thing about it. They all just assumed it must be something else.

I'm surprised that people will acknowledge that a diaper left in a car smells really bad. But then don't seem to think that if you open your car and it smells you don't think dirty diaper. Why would someone smell something and automatically think of their kids? I'd think food or a diaper was left in the car by accident. I'd think an animal might have crawled up in the engine area. My first thought would never be that a bad small in my car was the bodies of my dead children. I would think honestly that would be kind of obvious. IF you have no reason to think a body is smelling up your car your first thought is going to be explaining away a smell with much more common reasons for a car smelling.

When smelling something awful in your car, would you not investigate the source to throw it away? If I thought there was a dirty diaper or something else stinking the place, I would find it to throw it away. Not go on my way.

 

[Medstudies]

I fell down the science hole with Cooper Harris.

This guy doesn't fit some key criteria for Diamond's theories.

I do medical research for a living, it’s so easy for me to go down the science hole.

That said, I’m waiting to see if dad was secretly miserable and wanting to be free of the parental responsibilities.

Will creeps choose this method when it seems to be harder to prove intent?

 

[blue22]

I do medical research for a living, it’s so easy for me to go down the science hole.

That said, I’m waiting to see if dad was secretly miserable and wanting to be free of the parental responsibilities.

Will creeps choose this method when it seems to be harder to prove intent?

That was a question a lot of us asked with Cooper Harris. I'm not convinced it will become a method, as it takes a special kind of cruel to knowingly allow your child to suffer this way.

I'm not sure about this man, because he had plenty of children and responsibility left at home. I am leaning toward neglect with lots of distraction, and maybe he is not as perfect as people are leading the public to believe. With all that said, I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time! It's just my feelings about it.

 

[mickey2942]

So, my follow up question here, is whether or not Mr. Rodriguez is competent for continuing in his current position as a Social Worker at the Department of Veterans Affairs.

If we accept the premise that Mr. Rodriguez falls within the criteria of "Memory Loss", and left his children in his car, that would seriously make me consider that he merits a complete psychological evaluation for competency to maintain licensure as a licensed clinical social worker (LCSW).

He could "forget" to call back veterans who left a message, or fail to document suicide ideation, misplace HIPPA confidential documents with sensitive medical information...seriously, I am not so sure that this guy should be working at Walmart, stacking merchandise, unsupervised, let alone providing medical and psychological services to veterans.

 

[Inthedetails]

So, my follow up question here, is whether or not Mr. Rodriguez is competent for continuing in his current position as a Social Worker at the Department of Veterans Affairs.

If we accept the premise that Mr. Rodriguez falls within the criteria of "Memory Loss", and left his children in his car, that would seriously make me consider that he merits a complete psychological evaluation for competency to maintain licensure as a licensed clinical social worker (LCSW).

He could "forget" to call back veterans who left a message, or fail to document suicide ideation, misplace HIPPA confidential documents with sensitive medical information...seriously, I am not so sure that this guy should be working at Walmart, stacking merchandise, unsupervised, let alone providing medical and psychological services to veterans.

Since he works at a VA hospital, I'm assuming he is a Federal employee and there will be procedures to deal with his employment.

jmo

 

[mickey2942]

Since he works at a VA hospital, I'm assuming he is a Federal employee and there will be procedures to deal with his employment.

jmo

This is beyond his current position, I am actually discussing whether or not he is competent to maintain his LCSW, clinical licensure.

Is he competent to maintain a driver's license? He might "blank out" while driving, and not realize he drove to work. How safe is that? This may very well be a public safety issue.

I don't know why, if we accept that a person "forgot" kids in the car, we just shrug, "Gee, sorry", carry on...what about the safety of his other children? Is he competent to be responsible for their care?

 

[Safeguard]

I don't see how anyone can forget a child is in the car whether it's one minute or 10.

I'm don't recall the Harris case details as being the same as you are describing. I'm not sure that's it's a fact that Ross looked in the back of the car at lunch.



Looking up hot car deaths doesn't make you a killer. Coopers mom Leanna looked up car deaths and she wasn't accused of anything.

Having affairs doesn't mean you are a killer. It does make you a bad person in the eyes of a juror. That helps greatly with getting a conviction for the State.

I'm sure the State is looking at Rodriguez in depth. If they can find anything that will make a jury feel he was concentrating on something other than the children that day they will use it to convict him of the crimes they have charged him with and possibly other more serious charges. JMO


Timeline of toddler’s death

Excellent post RANCH. I never thought Ross Harris intentionally killed Cooper and I never will. (Imagine if this happened to me, today, and LE poked around in MY web history? Holy chit, I'd be screwed! Look where I am right now for example!)

This guy's a more sympathetic character than RH and for that reason alone, he will skate on this imo.

There are far easier ways to off a toddler, that would be quicker, and cleaner than murder by Hot Car.

The sharp increase in these tragedies is so clearly linked to the car seat laws, either there is such a thing as "forgotten child syndrome" or car seat laws bring out the murderer in parents of small children. My money's on FCS.

 

[blue22]

Excellent post RANCH. I never thought Ross Harris intentionally killed Cooper and I never will. (Imagine if this happened to me, today, and LE poked around in MY web history? Holy chit, I'd be screwed! Look where I am right now for example!)

This guy's a more sympathetic character than RH and for that reason alone, he will skate on this imo.

There are far easier ways to off a toddler, that would be quicker, and cleaner than murder by Hot Car.

The sharp increase in these tragedies is so clearly linked to the car seat laws, either there is such a thing as "forgotten child syndrome" or car seat laws bring out the murderer in parents of small children. My money's on FCS.

I don't think the fact that it happens, is proof of forgotten child syndrome. Clearly (in my opinion) people went to "prove" there was a forgotten child syndrome, when it became part of our consciousness. I don't actually think there is a such thing. I think they come up with this, instead of looking at the factors of a human, that cause them specifically to forget. There is a reason it only happens to a small amount out of the 10s of millions of parents in the US. I think there is something to do with the SPECIFIC people it happens to, that can't be explained by "syndrome" that hasn't even come close to being proven. No scientist has bothered to look at the totality of the person.

ETA: There are several things about this situation that do not fit forgotten baby syndrome, anyway.

 

[mickey2942]

Excellent post RANCH. I never thought Ross Harris intentionally killed Cooper and I never will. (Imagine if this happened to me, today, and LE poked around in MY web history? Holy chit, I'd be screwed! Look where I am right now for example!)

This guy's a more sympathetic character than RH and for that reason alone, he will skate on this imo.

There are far easier ways to off a toddler, that would be quicker, and cleaner than murder by Hot Car.

The sharp increase in these tragedies is so clearly linked to the car seat laws, either there is such a thing as "forgotten child syndrome" or car seat laws bring out the murderer in parents of small children. My money's on FCS.

Excellent logic. I think that RH was forgetful, and thinking about his "honey", not his kid. But, once the police looked at his online history...game over.

Hmm, what do you do with your car after you killed a child in it? Just have it detailed and carry on? Sell it? Eww, does Carfax let people know that you may buy a "Christine" car?

Do we judge babysitters who leave children in a hot car, more harshly than parents who do the same thing?

 

[Trident]

I don't know if this man is guilty of anything more than a memory lapse or not. I have no idea what I would do with a car my children had died in. I do know I shudder when I read some posts taking this tragedy beyond the pale. My God, this man is human just like the rest of us, we ALL forget things, sometimes important things. Isn't this case horrific enough without dragging it into the ridiculous?

 

[blue22]

Excellent logic. I think that RH was forgetful, and thinking about his "honey", not his kid. But, once the police looked at his online history...game over.

Hmm, what do you do with your car after you killed a child in it? Just have it detailed and carry on? Sell it? Eww, does Carfax let people know that you may buy a "Christine" car?

Do we judge babysitters who leave children in a hot car, more harshly than parents who do the same thing?

From a legal standpoint, I do not think a parent should be charged more harshly than a babysitter. (Unless the circumstances call for it.) The same crime, should call for the same charges. From a moral standpoint, I would never expect a babysitter to protect and care for a child like a parent.

RH was never going to be charged like most are whose child dies in a car. The circumstances of that morning do not fit into any kind of forgotten child defense.

 

[mickey2942]

I don't know if this man is guilty of anything more than a memory lapse or not. I have no idea what I would do with a car my children had died in. I do know I shudder when I read some posts taking this tragedy beyond the pale. My God, this man is human just like the rest of us, we ALL forget things, sometimes important things. Isn't this case horrific enough without dragging it into the ridiculous?

Do you seriously think that this man is competent to take care of children? Drop off another baby at daycare?

These are not idle questions. If this man doesn't go to prison, because he just "forgot" twin babies in a car...is he considered competent to continue to be responsible for his other children?

 

[Safeguard]

Hmm, what do you do with your car after you killed a child in it? Just have it detailed and carry on? Sell it? Eww, does Carfax let people know that you may buy a "Christine" car?

Wow! yeah... I'm mentally going over the used cars I've bought in my lifetime now... a car, like a house, has a "past". Does make you wonder...

 

[MsMarple]

Law Enforcement almost always goes with the “they’ve been punished enough” ideas in cases like this where they truly think there was an accident. They know it’s going to be hard to find a jury who will convict a person who killed their own child accidentally.

First off, IMO given the current information I don't believe this man intentionally left his twins in a hot car. That said, I have a hard time with the notion of "he/she has suffered enough" declarations. As already noted, the law often treats a forgetful parent differently from a babysitter or daycare worker when a child dies from hyperthermia while on their watch. I'm not sure why that is. A caregiver is a caregiver, paid or not.

Also, it's expected that laws differ from state to state just as laws on other deaths differ - i.e. assisted suicide, vehicular deaths - so it's not surprising that we see differing charges depending on location.

Still, if a driver experienced the same circumstances; stress, lack of sleep due to caring for young children, a change in routine, etc. and dozed off for an instant while driving and ran into a group of children at a bus stop, killing one or more, would we be having the same discussion? Why wouldn't we think they "suffered enough?"

If science ultimately supports the theory of "forgotten baby syndrome" aka the "swiss cheese model" then lawmakers must rethink how the caregivers - parents or otherwise - are treated.

My own personal opinion is that I am responsible for my child and if I have a lapse in that responsibility, intentional or not, then I must be prepared to face the legal consequences. MOO.

 

[Safeguard]

ETA: There are several things about this situation that do not fit forgotten baby syndrome, anyway.

I don't think there's a "Forgotten child syndrome" per say. But people forget, even very important things. So, imo, there probably isn't any one set of "characteristics" in hot car deaths, just some factors that seem to be more common, but not necessarily strictly causative in all cases

 

[Inthedetails]

Any updates on the case? Do we know if any upcoming court dates?