Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[Lalalacasbah]

I agree he may not know, but as far as I know, all confirmed sightings have placed KM behind the wheel, with BS as the passenger. Could just be that it was KM's turn to drive, but also could be that BS really can't drive.

SBM

This is something I keep coming back to.

BS clearly has a pretty disturbing internet history/record of threatening classmates that has been discussed on here, and for that reason, I've seen some speculation that KM was just sort of caught up in his friend's violent impulses.

But I think, in many ways, KM has a lot more power than BS, so to speak. He's a little older, he can drive, his family has money, he seems to come from a much more stable home environment, he apparently comes off much less weird in person than BS (I've seen nothing but absolute shock from anyone who knew him that he was involved, which isn't true of BS's peers). It seems in many ways that BS is very dependent on him.

So, KM doesn't have to be there on this odyssey with BS unless he wants to be.

MOO

I agree, I think KM has some sense of confidence that BS doesn't have and KM might give BS the confidence he lacks. BS might have disturbing thoughts but not the guts to act out on them, that's where KM comes in as he might have the guts/confidence. If that makes sense!

 

[PNZ]

He was estranged from him from ages 8 to 16 but it seems like they connected more after that. We know that Bryer lived with him briefly and worked in his construction business, and there are photos of the two of them working together. It was also stated that they saw each other about once a month and the last time they saw each other was at his graduation, which I believe was at the end of June. The article linked below talks about this stuff and also gives insight into some reasons why his dad's statements and actions might seem "off" to people. My honest opinion is his dad is in shock/denial and is processing it to the best of his ability.

Father of B.C. murder suspect pens book, details troubled life

Yes, true that the Dad was probably just reacting in those early days. He doesn't seem like the type of person who has made the best choices in life and he may not have the right people surrounding him to support him and give him good advice. In that regard my heart goes out to him. The self-published book was a bit off-putting for me though, struck me as odd and in poor taste.

 

[Zella]

I agree, I think KM has some sense of confidence that BS doesn't have and KM might give BS the confidence he lacks. BS might have disturbing thoughts but not the guts to act out on them, that's where KM comes in as he might have the guts/confidence. If that makes sense!

Yes, I think KM provides BS with a stability that he lacks in his life otherwise (and that's a good point about the confidence to go along with it--even though they were both nervous when talking to the guy who pulled them out of the mud, KM was still able to joke with him a little. That incident made me wonder if KM is mildly better under pressure or at least might be naturally calmer. BS seems really fidgety in that surveillance footage, and it made me wonder if he just has a nervous disposition in general).

I think the disturbing stuff that BS shared with the world that so many others found off-putting may have appealed to KM--something not a part of his social circle elsewhere. There's definitely something they're both getting out of this relationship for them to have remained so close since childhood.

MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

SBM

This is something I keep coming back to.

BS clearly has a pretty disturbing internet history/record of threatening classmates that has been discussed on here, and for that reason, I've seen some speculation that KM was just sort of caught up in his friend's violent impulses.

But I think, in many ways, KM has a lot more power than BS, so to speak. He's a little older, he can drive, his family has money, he seems to come from a much more stable home environment, he apparently comes off much less weird in person than BS (I've seen nothing but absolute shock from anyone who knew him that he was involved, which isn't true of BS's peers). It seems in many ways that BS is very dependent on him.

So, KM doesn't have to be there on this odyssey with BS unless he wants to be.

MOO

This is why I'm wondering about their dynamic. So far all we've heard about Kam from media interviews of his friends and family is that he was a good kid, kind to people, funny, etc. Whereas we've heard Bryer was prone to anger, painfully shy, into some questionable interests and lost friends over them, etc. But all indications are that Kam does have access to way more resources and that it is unlikely Bryer would have ever been able to undertake this spree and escape without Kam, whether it was planned or not.

Also this is totally IMO and I know a few seconds of footage don't really prove anything, but in the store footage, I think Kam looks eerily focused and determined, even confident, and is walking in front like nothing will get in his way, while Bryer looks a lot more nervous and fidgety and keeps looking around and fiddling with his shirt.

But were there really no previous signs of this behavior from Kam, or is it just that less information has been released about him?

And I do think, especially in high school, there is generally also an inherent power dynamic that takes place when one friend has a lot more social capital, financial capital, and other capital such as ability to drive. Like the friend with less capital becomes dependent on the friend with more capital for introductions to new people, invitations, borrowing money, rides, etc. Same with coming from a stable home vs. a dysfunctional home, because if you come from a dysfunctional home you probably can't have friends over (Bryer's dad even touched on this in the video linked above) and you may even have to stay over at the stable home sometimes if things get really bad. It would be really interesting if Bryer was the "dominant" one in the friendship despite all that, especially knowing how shy he was.

I think this case is slowly driving me crazy. I dreamed last night they were caught (second time in the past 2 weeks I have dreamed about this case), checked Websleuths, and saw nope, still on the run.

I also dreamed about this case the past two nights. I should probably go do something else, especially as this is cutting into my productivity.

Bryer JUST turned 19 (if reports of his birthday being aug 4th are correct) up until yesterday he would not have been able to legally buy a gun at all. Even today at 19 he won’t be able to legally buy a gun, unless he has his PAL, something his parents would have had to sign for up until yesterday.

It says 18 online, but it sounds like you know way more about this than I do. I would be very surprised if these guys had the social resources to acquire a gun illegally too.

 

[Zella]

Also this is totally IMO and I know a few seconds of footage don't really prove anything, but in the store footage, I think Kam looks eerily focused and determined, even confident, and is walking in front like nothing will get in his way, while Bryer looks a lot more nervous and fidgety and keeps looking around and fiddling with his shirt.

SBM

That was my read on their body language too in the surveillance video. It is such a short sequence, so it is hard to say. But I thought KM did look, as you say, eerily focused and determined. His facial expression was so different from that very friendly, smiling picture of him that circulated when he was declared missing--it was a bit startling actually.

Meanwhile, the thing that struck me about BS is he almost came off like a space cadet, looking around the store, fiddling with his shirt. He seemed to be off in his own little world almost.

This is not to say that I think BS is an innocent party along for the ride. But I have speculated since from the beginning that KM is the leader and BS is the follower. Could be wrong, but that is the read I've had on their dynamic from the start. It also echoes what is often seen in murder duos--an ostensibly more normal-acting and charismatic leader with a more outwardly dysfunctional follower. The follower can sometimes be more active in the actual commission of crimes, which belies the influence the leader has in the whole affair.

All MOO

 

[Gina20]

If they genuinely planned to take a cross country road trip, it's possible that they were organized enough to pack maps of all the areas they planned to visit. Since this was a job seeking trip to Whitehorse, I would be very surprised if they had any hard copy maps. Dr. Leonard Dyck might have had BC maps, but not Manitoba maps.

Maps have the important flip side with all the prairie provinces sometimes.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I know of a few teenagers/early 20's people who don't have a drivers licence and are perfectly content to call on friends, family, neighbours, et al to drive them around everywhere. From what I have read about BS, he kinda fits that description.

None the less, I still think its possible he knows how to drive or learned on the fly.

Yeah I'm 30 and know a couple of people my age or a little younger who have still never learned to drive, despite not living where public transport is easily accessible. I used to be their ride until I finally got tired of it and made excuses to stop. They don't seem to mind being at the mercy of someone else's schedule--it would drive me crazy!

I agree, though, that BS comes across as someone who may very well not know and not care to learn, for whatever reason, and doesn't mind hitting up other people for rides.

I'm 27 and don't know how to drive, and the public transportation here is ok but not great (basically it's great if you want to go to the city, not so great if you want to go anywhere else). I don't ask people for rides -- I walk, take public transportation, take Uber/Lyft, or go with my husband on the weekends. Driving is just not for everyone. If Bryer really is a nervous person as has been suggested, that could be why he hasn't learned. But it's a lot easier to get around than it used to be because of Uber and Lyft, and I assume they have those in Canada too? Plus from what I've heard, Canada has much better public transportation than the US. Also if he had a bike that makes things pretty easy (it's way too dangerous to bike in my town but I don't know how it is in Port Alberni).

Still, not knowing how to drive is not ideal for a murder spree and fugitive situation, which is yet another item in the "this wasn't planned" column IMO.

I agree, I think KM has some sense of confidence that BS doesn't have and KM might give BS the confidence he lacks. BS might have disturbing thoughts but not the guts to act out on them, that's where KM comes in as he might have the guts/confidence. If that makes sense!

Yes, I think KM provides BS with a stability that he lacks in his life otherwise (and that's a good point about the confidence to go along with it--even though they were both nervous when talking to the guy who pulled them out of the mud, KM was still able to joke with him a little. That incident made me wonder if KM is mildly better under pressure or at least might be naturally calmer. BS seems really fidgety in that surveillance footage, and it made me wonder if he just has a nervous disposition in general).

I think the disturbing stuff that BS shared with the world that so many others found off-putting may have appealed to KM--something not a part of his social circle elsewhere. There's definitely something they're both getting out of this relationship for them to have remained so close since childhood.

MOO

I suspect you guys are spot on with this analysis.

 

[PNZ]

I think this case is slowly driving me crazy. I dreamed last night they were caught (second time in the past 2 weeks I have dreamed about this case), checked Websleuths, and saw nope, still on the run.

I haven't dreamed about this but I too check every morning to see what's happening, kind of boggles me that its lasted this long! My interest is more along the lines that I believe they got the h-e-double hockey sticks out of Gillam before anyone ever knew they were there and before they were declared suspects. IMHO they could be anywhere by now. It is possible they are in my neck of the woods (not likely ... but not out of the question.)

(hopefully this doesn't violate the 'don't spread rumours' policy ... I don't want to get banned from Websleuths on my first day as a real member!)

 

[Seattle1]

The map versus suit point is rather confusing. First it was said that the Rav4 had maps, then there was a suit and no maps. I think the reporting from the locals who were checking vehicles for alcohol is completely unreliable.

I also don't think it was clear that there were two constables that stopped and searched the vehicle.

One saw survival gear and the other did not.

Regarding the "suit" -- I believe this really taken out of context when Constable was describing that how a window of Rav4 was covered, and reporter asked if covered with paper and constable clarified window was covered by a garment -- like a suit or coat.

I for one don't believe that BS was carting around his new suit purchased from his Walmart earnings from one torched vehicle to another. MOO

 

[otto]

Fewer young people are learning to drive

"She’s one of a growing number of younger people who shrug their shoulders at the idea of getting a driver’s licence, leaving car companies fretting and older generations perplexed. Getting a licence used to be a rite of passage—one that brought younger people together, gave them access to jobs, opportunities and the glories of the open road. It meant adulthood, and freedom.
...

In another new study, researchers from the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute (UMTRI) found a drop in younger licensed drivers in more than half of 15 countries they surveyed, including Canada. Among 25- to 34-year-olds here, 92 per cent had a licence in 1999; 10 years later, 87 per cent did. In Canada, this decline occurred in every age group from 16 to 54."​

For today's youth, cars no longer represent freedom - Macleans.ca

 

[ladysamurai]

His Dad may not know everything about his son as they were quite estranged for much of BS's life. So its possible BS does know how to drive and his Dad just doesn't know that. I also find the Dad to be not totally credible … just a vibe that something is off … the timing of his 'self-published' book was a head scratcher, struck me as attention seeking, inappropriate and insensitive.

As well, these 2 put on a lot of miles in a very short time, I don't think they could have gotten that far without trading off the driving duties. Being on the run from authorities might be a good motivator to hurry up and learn!

Curious if any of the confirmed sightings (the band Constable, et al) said which one was behind the wheel?

Excellent points!

Wonder if KM could have given BS a "crash course" in driving during the 3-4 days between the two incidents (discovery of murdered couple July 15, discovery of murdered professor July 19)? Could explain their rapid progress across Canada July 19-22. Yes, it would be a risk to get caught driving without a license--but do you think they'd really worry about that, with what they were already dealing with? Dease Lake area July 19 to Sundance area takes 37 hours driving time, according to Google Maps. And that's by the direct route--what about stops for fuel, food, sleep, traffic delays, construction, getting stuck for hours in Cold Lake area, and any other sidestops--like slowing down to toss incriminating evidence into a lake somewhere along the 3302km/2051 miles route ? Certainly would be brutal for only KM to do all the driving.

 

[Peace777]

Bryer bought the suit for his funeral.

If BS has died out in the bush/wilderness I guess he won't be needing a suit for a funeral. JMO I think these 2 are still somewhere. But where and who may be helping them IF there are others (people from gaming world?) ?

 

[steelybird]

The contents of the RAV4 may have belonged to Mr. Dyck and not the suspects. There was also some camping gear there, seems like if they were planning on hiding in the bush, the might have taken those supplies with them.

I agree that the contents likely belonged to Mr. Dyck. I don’t think the boys would have brought pork chops and sardines on their journey. I think they belonged to poor Mr. Dyck and it’s these little details and insight into the victims’ lives that just makes my heart break. They were all just enjoying life and then it ended so senselessly.

 

[minorone]

Fewer young people are learning to drive

"She’s one of a growing number of younger people who shrug their shoulders at the idea of getting a driver’s licence, leaving car companies fretting and older generations perplexed. Getting a licence used to be a rite of passage—one that brought younger people together, gave them access to jobs, opportunities and the glories of the open road. It meant adulthood, and freedom.
...

In another new study, researchers from the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute (UMTRI) found a drop in younger licensed drivers in more than half of 15 countries they surveyed, including Canada. Among 25- to 34-year-olds here, 92 per cent had a licence in 1999; 10 years later, 87 per cent did. In Canada, this decline occurred in every age group from 16 to 54."​

For today's youth, cars no longer represent freedom - Macleans.ca

I think that is very true of bigger centers, but much harder getting around in smaller centers like PA. BC Transit has spoken about expanding its service to the rural area of Sproat Lake as recently as June 2019 . It takes about 20 minutes by car to drive between the two places, so BS would have been dependent on a ride to get in and out of SL.

I frequently go to the Parksville/Qualicum area and find myself very dependent on a vehicle. I do some biking but find it difficult if I do not have a vehicle. It takes 40 minutes to get between PA and Qualicum.

 

[Kubirai]

We already know that one suspect in a mid-1980s double shooting homicide of a couple near Chetwynd, B.C. went to Sundance, Manitoba, near where the burnt RAV4 was found. What are the chances that two suspects in a 2019 double shooting homicide of a couple, one of whom lived in Hudson's Hope near Chetwynd, would end up in the same place? Strange things happen, but that is quite a coincidence.

Sundance, Manitoba - Wikipedia
Double murder of Andrea Scherpf and Bernd Göricke - Wikipedia

Note the truck.

Red truck with stripes! KM/BS may have even come across the Fifth Estate report about Andrea/Berndt, or the 2018 plea by RCMP.

When I suggested the twisted route via Chetwynd and Hudson's Hope, I didn't think about the 1983 tourist homicides. But I remember the search for their possessions going on after I came to U of Alberta in 1984. Nothing has ever been found.

Now I am thinking that KM/BS may have burned the vehicles mainly to destroy any stuff taken from the victims. That probably didn't work out.

 

[steelybird]

I think this case is slowly driving me crazy. I dreamed last night they were caught (second time in the past 2 weeks I have dreamed about this case), checked Websleuths, and saw nope, still on the run.

I’m right there with you, Zella

 

[copkid]

If so, it wouldn't be the first time workers from one northern hydro megaproject moved to another northern hydro megaproject. Thinking of how the route taken by KM and BS may well have taken them past the WAC Bennett Dam at Hudson's Hope and the Site C project near Fort St. John in B.C. I, too, am most curious about a possible connection to Gillam, and why they went there.

We already know that one suspect in a mid-1980s double shooting homicide of a couple near Chetwynd, B.C. went to Sundance, Manitoba, near where the burnt RAV4 was found. What are the chances that two suspects in a 2019 double shooting homicide of a couple, one of whom lived in Hudson's Hope near Chetwynd, would end up in the same place? Strange things happen, but that is quite a coincidence.

Sundance, Manitoba - Wikipedia
Double murder of Andrea Scherpf and Bernd Göricke - Wikipedia

Note the truck.

As for Ohio, the shooter had made threats against high school classmates.

Classmates: Ohio shooter kept a 'hit list' and a 'rape list'

This case from 1983 is extremely interesting and 25 years later it still remains unsolved with both viable suspects being eliminated by DNA. Interesting!

 

[dameagatha]

I also don't think it was clear that there were two constables that stopped and searched the vehicle.

“Saunders said the teens drove past him and his safety officer partner Morgan Spence at a traffic checkpoint in the RAV4, which had not yet been reported stolen from murder victim Leonard Dyck.”

Canadian safety officer describes letting teen serial killer suspects go after traffic stop | Daily Mail Online

 

[Kubirai]

I bet they got to the Sundance ghost town, at least to regroup for a while. I haven't seen any reports about the ghost town being searched. Has anyone?

All those buildings were removed long ago, but RCMP checked all other hydro facilities. One report mentions hundreds of rooms in one building.

 

[PNZ]

Excellent points!

Wonder if KM could have given BS a "crash course" in driving during the 3-4 days between the two incidents (discovery of murdered couple July 15, discovery of murdered professor July 19)? Could explain their rapid progress across Canada July 19-22. Yes, it would be a risk to get caught driving without a license--but do you think they'd really worry about that, with what they were already dealing with? Dease Lake area July 19 to Sundance area takes 37 hours driving time, according to Google Maps. And that's by the direct route--what about stops for fuel, food, sleep, traffic delays, construction, getting stuck for hours in Cold Lake area, and any other sidestops--like slowing down to toss incriminating evidence into a lake somewhere along the 3302km/2051 miles route ? Certainly would be brutal for only KM to do all the driving.

If the "crash course" happened in the timespan you said, they might have still been driving the truck/camper. Perhaps that crash course resulted in an actual crash which necessitated the need to procure a different vehicle … and Mr. Dyck with his RAV4 were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm sure an examination of the burned out truck would show what kind of damage there was (if any.)

At this point, driving without a licence is pretty far down on the list of things they need to worry about!