TX - 22 killed, 26 injured at Walmart, Cielo Vista, El Paso, 3 Aug 2019 *ARREST*

[scapa]

Man charged with making terrorist threat in Morgan County

According to court documents, Marr said, "If you ask me, Patrick did us a favor."

Patrick Crusius is the accused shooter in El Paso where 22 people were killed on Aug. 3.

Marr then allegedly signed onto a computer for about an hour, then left. The employee said Marr's search history showed he was searching for Crusius' manifesto, court documents said. The employee said Marr was hissing to himself while he was searching at the computer.

Gotta admit, I was hissing and cussing — and even groaning — when I read snippets of that “manifesto” too.

This guy sounds damaged, for sure, but I wonder if he’d have been charged with this say a week ago (and looking up any number of earlier mass shootings). I wonder what else they have.

 

[Safeguard]

Gotta admit, I was hissing and cussing — and even groaning — when I read snippets of that “manifesto” too.

This guy sounds damaged, for sure, but I wonder if he’d have been charged with this say a week ago (and looking up any number of earlier mass shootings). I wonder what else they have.

Right? If they had anything else I think we would've heard about it.

I would've thought you'd need a whole lot more evidence, in the "Land Of The Free", but we apparently have become, The Land of the Paranoid. Score one for the mass shooters.

 

[Safeguard]

Gotta admit, I was hissing and cussing — and even groaning — when I read snippets of that “manifesto” too.

This guy sounds damaged, for sure, but I wonder if he’d have been charged with this say a week ago (and looking up any number of earlier mass shootings). I wonder what else they have.

Omg! You looked up the Manifesto? (did anyone see you? Were you overheard hissing or cussing? I hope your passport is in order!)

 

[ReadySet]

I haven't read here in a few days and only read a fraction of posts before, so maybe this has already been referenced and discussed. But when I saw your post, wanted to respond for the sake of accuracy. Adam Lanza did not receive treatment in the years before the murders.

“It’s not that his mental illness was a predisposing factor in this tragedy,” Dr. Harold Schwartz, chief psychiatrist at Hartford Hospital’s Institute of Living, said at a news conference held on Friday to discuss the report, of which he was an author. “It was his untreated mental illness that was a predisposing factor.”

The report, based on a comprehensive examination of the medical and school histories of Mr. Lanza, 20, found he was “completely untreated in the years before the shooting” for psychiatric and physical ailments like anxiety and obsessive-compulsive disorder, and was also deprived of recommended services and drugs.

Adam Lanza’s Mental Problems ‘Completely Untreated’ Before Newtown Shootings, Report Says

No, not at all. As I said, it's not a disorder that would suggest a tendency to be violent.

But since about 50% of all mass shooters were found to have mental health problems this is one of the factors many have in common.
Of the shooters with mental health histories, none of them had a disorder that would suggest violence, either.

Adam Lanza had extensive therapy and treatment by psychiatrists but nothing that would indicate a tendency for violent behavior. Imo

 

[Safeguard]

These are the cases that make me wish I was a lawyer. I still believe in free speech and the ability to research whatever you want on the internet. And you can hiss or Whistle Dixie while you do it.

 

[MsBetsy]

Gotta admit, I was hissing and cussing — and even groaning — when I read snippets of that “manifesto” too.

This guy sounds damaged, for sure, but I wonder if he’d have been charged with this say a week ago (and looking up any number of earlier mass shootings). I wonder what else they have.

Well, he had two loaded guns in his home so since there is so much controversy about people with mental health issues having guns and the fact that he apparently made a threatening comment LE decided to arrest him.
I would think if the charges aren't justified they would be dropped eventually.
Maybe he obtained the guns illegally. Imo

 

[Safeguard]

“It’s not that his mental illness was a predisposing factor in this tragedy,

Treated or untreated, it absolutely WAS a "predisposing" factor. imo.

 

[Safeguard]

Well, he had two loaded guns in his home so since there is so much controversy about people with mental health issues having guns and the fact that he apparently made a threatening comment LE decided to arrest him.
I would think if the charges aren't justified they would be dropped eventually.
Maybe he obtained the guns illegally. Imo

He did not make a threatening comment. imo. He stated an opinion. "That guy did us all a favor" Is nowhere near saying, "I think I'll kill people too!"

 

[Boxer]

wow. this is just bizarre...

"Captain Williams writes in the probable cause statement the home was "untidy," with clothes on the floor, or furniture and trash scattered around."

errmm...so which is it Captain? clothes or furniture and trash? And why is that relevant exactly ?
Man charged with making terroristic threats after behavior, internet search history at Versailles, Mo. library

Maybe it's meant to say "and" instead of or.
Excessive clutter, especially when it includes garbage or anything unsanitary, is a symptom of hoarding, which can indicate a mental health disorder.
(Compulsive Hoarding Disorder)
It's not a disorder that would suggest violence, though. Imo

Well it is a problem. Man in california Eliot Roger checked out by police due to concerns, then killed 6 wounded many more.

 

[MsBetsy]

I haven't read here in a few days and only read a fraction of posts before, so maybe this has already been referenced and discussed. But when I saw your post, wanted to respond for the sake of accuracy. Adam Lanza did not receive treatment in the years before the murders.

“It’s not that his mental illness was a predisposing factor in this tragedy,” Dr. Harold Schwartz, chief psychiatrist at Hartford Hospital’s Institute of Living, said at a news conference held on Friday to discuss the report, of which he was an author. “It was his untreated mental illness that was a predisposing factor.”

The report, based on a comprehensive examination of the medical and school histories of Mr. Lanza, 20, found he was “completely untreated in the years before the shooting” for psychiatric and physical ailments like anxiety and obsessive-compulsive disorder, and was also deprived of recommended services and drugs.

Adam Lanza’s Mental Problems ‘Completely Untreated’ Before Newtown Shootings, Report Says

He had several evaluations throughout his childhood and ultimately was evaluated extensively at Yale University.

I've posted about this before, but the medical experts at Yale University called for drastic measures, hospital programs, special education, medication, and rigorous ongoing therapy which went largely unheeded. It was found that his mother tried to appease and accomadate his disabilities rather than treat them.
Even after he finished high school when his health was deteriorating, he was allowed to have access to numerous firearms in his home.

So yes, his condition was left untreated, but he still had numerous evaluations and had therapy in high school.
The report you are referring to and the quote in your post is the same I have referenced in another thread. The report is about 112 pages long, and it is documented that he had extensive evaluations and was treated by both psychologists and psychiatrists.

But yes, it was not for lack of seeking out several mental health facilities to seek treatment, it was that everything the experts recommended went mostly unheeded. Doctors insisted that it was crucial that he take medication to control his symptoms, but his mother stopped giving them to him after one day because she said they made him severely ill.

So it is accurate that he was treated, and also accurate that the treatment was not followed through with. Imo

 

[Boxer]

Treated or untreated, it absolutely WAS a "predisposing" factor. imo.

That is what a defense attorney will
say for sure. I don't buy it. He knew it was wrong to kill people, he overrode his conscience.

 

[MsBetsy]

He did not make a threatening comment. imo. He stated an opinion. "That guy did us all a favor" Is nowhere near saying, "I think I'll kill people too!"

Yes, that's true.
It is exactly the same in many schools ever since the zero tolerance policy after the Columbine shooting.
If a student makes a comment about how he admires a school shooter, it is considered a threat by authorities.
So depending on the state and the district, the student would be punished the same way as if he had made a direct threat. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Treated or untreated, it absolutely WAS a "predisposing" factor. imo.

Yeah, I think so too. We have no way of knowing that if he took his medication he would have not killed his mother and all those children and teachers.
In fact, young people who have taken psychotropic meds have actually been triggered to commit violent acts or commit suicide, which was thought to be a result of taking that specific medication. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

That is what a defense attorney will
say for sure. I don't buy it. He knew it was wrong to kill people, he overrode his conscience.

Which his mental health disorder may or may not have been a contributing factor. He lived in his room all day with black garbage bags taped over the windows. He would not allow his mother to enter. Those are huge red flags that something is wrong. Imo

 

[Boxer]

Yeah, I think so too. We have no way of knowing that if he took his medication he would have not killed his mother and all those children and teachers.
In fact, young people who have taken psychotropic meds have actually been triggered to commit violent acts or commit suicide, which was thought to be a result of taking that specific medication. Imo

Texas has very liberal insanity defense so sure, that is what his attorney will claim,
maybe even get him off by pleading him innocent due to insanity.

 

[Gardenista]

OMG

The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.

Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.

Off-duty firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart

 

[MsBetsy]

Texas has very liberal insanity defense so sure, that is what his attorney will claim,
maybe even get him off
Finding him innocent due to insanity.

I was referring to Adam Lanza, not this specific shooter, but maybe that will be true in this case. I don't think so, though.
Most mental health disorders wouldn't meet the definition of legally insane.
Is there any proof that he did not know right from wrong?

 

[Boxer]

I was referring to Adam Lanza, not this specific shooter, but maybe that will be true in this case. I don't think so, though.
Most mental health disorders wouldn't meet the definition of legally insane.
Is there any proof that he did not know right from wrong?

Trying to prove that PC didn't/doesn't know right from wrong, or even if he did he couldn't stop himself, is his defense lawyers job. He stands a decent chance of getting away with this in Texas; most other states have tightened up their insanity laws.
Often the laws have been tightened to allow insanity as a mitigating factor but only with a guilty plea. MOO the tighter laws are much clearer and more just.For instance expressing the insanity defense as: "guilty but insane."

Once found guilty and insane the defendant gets treatment in a locked facility till stable, once stable they start the clock serving their sentence in prison.

 

[TristanP]

wow. this is just bizarre...

"Captain Williams writes in the probable cause statement the home was "untidy," with clothes on the floor, or furniture and trash scattered around."

errmm...so which is it Captain? clothes or furniture and trash? And why is that relevant exactly ?
Man charged with making terroristic threats after behavior, internet search history at Versailles, Mo. library

I believe it should say “...probable cause statement the home was “untidy”, with clothes on the floor or furniture, and trash scattered around.”

Comma placement matters!

 

[Safeguard]

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