Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #4

[MsBetsy]

I agree, and in the UK they are called EHCPs - education health and care plan.

Good to know!

 

[greybluekoala]

Such a shame that she was wandering about lost for all those days.

It seems she was more mobile than the family let on? I doubt they would have booked that specific house with spiral staircase and loft area if she was unable to walk on her own as stated earlier. The loft itself looks quite dangerous for young kids to sleep on their own unsupervised IMO - short bannister, spiral staircase as exit, kinda cramped. I hope that doesn't sound like I'm making judgements on the victim or family for making statements about the house. I apologize if it's taken like that.

 

[Blamhappy]

Wasn't the area where she was found searched in the last few days?

It's surprising that she was found in an area that was previously search, and she was alive until a couple of days ago? It's surprising. Bruises on her legs are presumably on the lower legs and related to stumbling in the forest until she starved?

It seems also possible that she was unfed and restricted somewhere until a few days ago. Has sexual assault been ruled out?

I find this most unlikely. The simplest explanation is normally correct, and in this case, I can quite believe that she managed to allude all the searchers. It’s a large area, but if they got close, I imagine she’d have been scared and scarpered anyway. It’s just a tragic accident and personally I don’t think we need to look for anyone to blame.

 

[WiseOwl]

Could Nora have possibly died from a mosquito bite? I believe that children are more at risk than adults from a bite and i expect Nora would have been covered in them after spending several days in the jungle.

 

[MsBetsy]

Such a sad, sad story. The only question I have is how she managed to escape further injury than what we are told.
I've read that she had scratches on her leg; surely walking and hiding in the jungle for ten days would maybe cause more injury? It was also reported that she was in a ravine - did she fall? Rest in peace Nora.

Yes, I would have expected her to have more injuries, like cuts and bumps as well as bruises. And all over her body, not just her legs as she was naked. Also I would think her body would have been covered with insect bites.
And what happened to her underwear?

 

[Theforeigner]

If the cause of death was gastro-internal rupture/bleeding, it makes no sense that she was found in a position as if she was peacefully a sleep with her hands under her head, because gastro-internal rupture/bleeding would have been extremely painful.

 

[MsBetsy]

What? Why? He stated she was being held didn't he, and she obviously wasn't. So he is not too good is he?

Well, we still don't know if she was being held or not. At this point they don't believe she was kidnapped.
We only know she died two or three days ago and what caused her death.
It will be interesting to know if the French investigators are still going to follow through with their investigation at this point. Without any solid evidence they may not. Imo

 

[LemonMint]

So heartbreaking

Rest In Peace, Nora.
It gives some comfort to know she found the waterfall she was looking forward to seeing.

My deepest condolences to her family and friends.

 

[MsBetsy]

If the cause of death was gastro-internal rupture/bleeding, it makes no sense that she was found in a position as if she was peacefully a sleep with her hands under her head, because gastro-internal rupture/bleeding would have been extremely painful.

Very painful, for having been found in such a comfortable position. I would think she would have been in the fetal position with her hands clutching her stomach. Either that or she would have collapsed in pain and been in more of an unnatural position, I would imagine. Imo

 

[Sp45westie]

I think her missing underwear can be easily explained with her apparently wandering for a week at some point she would of needed the bathroom and maybe had an accident and taken them off , she would also be delirious / confused and due to her disability on top of that I don’t see her being bothered about not being dressed , I wonder if her family accept this pm result ,

 

[hippogriff]

I just heard about this story last night, and I am so incredibly heartbroken for sweet Nora and her family :'( I wish them peace, space to heal, and concrete resolutions to this absolute nightmare.

I want to talk about neurology and the shaman (omg), because I have so many unanswered questions (as do we all).

First of all, I agree with her parents and grandfather--I am not convinced that she walked such a long distance by herself, even if she'd somehow managed to leave through the window herself. If you look up holoprosencephaly (Nora's neurological condition) a major clinical feature is motor impairment. Although the motor impairment can be less severe in milder cases of holoprosencephaly, I don't know what subtype of the condition she has or the severity of her symptoms, either way the family said she struggles with balance and coordination...I feel like people are really downplaying the influence of her condition on the plausibility of whether she was really alone the whole time she was missing...

On an almost unrelated note, the shaman situation really freaked me out! I read an article that said that the shaman leader, Mohd Khalid Mohamed, provided shamanic services to another missing persons case in Malaysia back in April (a 29 year old runner named Mohammad Ashraf Hassan). I couldn't find information about whether or not he claimed to have successfully contacted the jinn/genies in that case--I'm very curious as to how that turned out, but the articles that mention both of their names are mostly in Malay.
I don't think that person has been found, unfortunately but I want to see this shaman's track record to be quite honest! Also, does anyone know what the shaman meant when he said:
"She is here now, so we will stay here tonight to see if we can find her then we can know why she went missing"
(quoted in this older article, for example: Shamans, European police join search for Irish girl missing in Malaysia | The Guardian)
Like, did they stay outside in the jungle? Or did they just mean the town? What were they doing between the time they made the statement about Nora being adopted by a genie and the time that her body was found? I'm not necessarily suspicious of them, but the timing and the phrasing of their request to these potential supernatural beings is just too eerie to not dissect.

Note: I am taking the shamans' work seriously and I am open-minded to different cultural and religious interpretations of supernatural encounters. I just don't know how this works--are genies/jinn are thought to regularly abduct and/or return humans.

 

[Blamhappy]

Very painful, for having been found in such a comfortable position. I would think she would have been in the fetal position with her hands clutching her stomach. Either that or she would have collapsed in pain and been in more of an unnatural position, I would imagine. Imo

I’m not sure if this view is evidence-based. I’ve seen quite a few dead bodies now. Most were in a very ordinary position, as though they’d died whilst sleeping or relaxing. I remember one man had a history of cardiac problems, so heart attack was a likely cause of death, but he was lying on his sofa, looking completely relaxed. Are people often found in foetal positions?

 

[MsBetsy]

Such a shame that she was wandering about lost for all those days.

It seems she was more mobile than the family let on? I doubt they would have booked that specific house with spiral staircase and loft area if she was unable to walk on her own as stated earlier. The loft itself looks quite dangerous for young kids to sleep on their own unsupervised IMO - short bannister, spiral staircase as exit, kinda cramped. I hope that doesn't sound like I'm making judgements on the victim or family for making statements about the house. I apologize if it's taken like that.

No, it was never stated that she was unable to walk down the stairs.
And no, she was not a lot more mobile than the family let on. They specifically said she liked walking with her family.

She had problems with balance and coordination, which is typical with her disability.
Someone like that could manage a staircase with one curve, wide steps, and a railing much better than they could navigate thick vegetation, steep hills, and rocks in the jungle. Imo

 

[Njust1]

If the cause of death was gastro-internal rupture/bleeding, it makes no sense that she was found in a position as if she was peacefully a sleep with her hands under her head, because gastro-internal rupture/bleeding would have been extremely painful.

When you are exhausted, you could curl up on your side and fall asleep with your hands under your head, right?

 

[scandinavian girl]

This is so so sad and my heart aches for Noras family.

What surgeries did She have, I know I read something about lungs, but what about abdomen and pelvis. That could have made her more vulnerable.

Bowel Perforation: Symptoms, Causes, and Treatments

 

[Seni]

Could Nora have possibly died from a mosquito bite? I believe that children are more at risk than adults from a bite and i expect Nora would have been covered in them after spending several days in the jungle.

It is not a malaria area, indeed Malaysia is well on the route for being a malaria free zone. If you are stung by the anopheles mosquito which carries malaria, symptoms would take several days to appear. Same with dengue.

 

[CalmSeas]

Howard Johnson (@Howardrjohnson) tweeted at 2:16 am on Thu, Aug 15, 2019:
Malaysian police say they will hold a press conference today at 2pm local / 7am BST at the Negri Sembilan Police HQ in Seremban #NoraAnneQuoirin #NoraQuoirin
(Howard Johnson on Twitter)

 

[MsBetsy]

I’m not sure if this view is evidence-based. I’ve seen quite a few dead bodies now. Most were in a very ordinary position, as though they’d died whilst sleeping or relaxing. I remember one man had a history of cardiac problems, so heart attack was a likely cause of death, but he was lying on his sofa, looking completely relaxed. Are people often found in foetal positions?

I'm not sure if it is evidence based either, but I think generally people are found in the position they were in when they died, whatever that may be. Imo

 

[Angleterre]

We have lunch cards to swipe but they aren’t used with fingerprints. Nobody pays cash, it’s all just a swipe of the card that has the kid’s lunch info.

This must be extremely state specific because all of my friends in various who love conspiracy theories would flip over this. I’m 100% sure my kid isn’t fingerprinted at school. None of my nieces or nephews or friends’ kids have this done as far as I know. But it would be useful! Having that as a way to identify them is important!

My son has a biometric fingerprint lunch swipe card at his school in the uk

 

[Seni]

"Note: I am taking the shamans' work seriously and I am open-minded to different cultural and religious interpretations of supernatural encounters. I just don't know how this works--are genies/jinn are thought to regularly abduct and/or return humans"

No.