Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #16 *ARREST*

[HopeForGoodNews]

I agree that he has admitted picking her up. But I reckon there must be some sort of evidence that at least one, if not both, were in the park that night. Remember when forensics turned up at the park bench (not Libby's bench - had enough bench confusion in previous threads!) and put down evidence markers and took photos? I think PR admitted to being there, at the bench, whether with Libby or by himself.

Thing is, even if he has admitted being with her, even if he said they were in the park, even if he alleged consensual sex, and he said at the end of whatever he didn't see her again... they can't prove he actually killed her.

Makes me wonder whether something sinister looking (nobular deposits/blood or the like) were reported around/on the bench which they were checking for a DNA match to place him and/or Libby there.

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

So if the police had on their files fingerprint and dna evidence of an unknown male who'd commited various sexually deviant crimes, what, I wonder, led them to arrest PR for kidnapping Libby and then making the dna match? Sorry if this has already been discussed since the trial and I haven't grasped the situation, but I assume it was spidercam and if so, that must mean the police are basically certain it was Libby getting into that car and that the driver was PR?
OR, is it that none of the fingerprint/dna evidence had been taken by the police until after they arrested PR?

I thought I read (quite recently but no idea where) that they had other CCTV of Libby on the bench (presumably Beverley Road) but it wasn't very clear. I wonder if this showed him approach her. It still doesn't seem clear though how they identified him as the person they needed to speak to unless he came forward himself or it was reported by someone else that he had said he picked her up.

 

[JosieJo]

I agree LE have him in the park someway or another ..although of course the park would be an obvious place being so near her house and the screams etc

 

[Sally4x]

I agree that he has admitted picking her up. But I reckon there must be some sort of evidence that at least one, if not both, were in the park that night. Remember when forensics turned up at the park bench (not Libby's bench - had enough bench confusion in previous threads!) and put down evidence markers and took photos? I think PR admitted to being there, at the bench, whether with Libby or by himself.

Thing is, even if he has admitted being with her, even if he said they were in the park, even if he alleged consensual sex, and he said at the end of whatever he didn't see her again... they can't prove he actually killed her.

Forensics search Oak Road Playing Field as Libby investigation continues

That bench.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Makes me wonder whether something sinister looking (nobular deposits/blood or the like) were reported around/on the bench which they were checking for a DNA match to place him and/or Libby there.

I reckon the park bench is part of his story, and after he told them he (or they) was there they went down pronto and tested it. In fact, as that testing was done quickly and under cover of darkness, is it possible PR actually took them to it?

In all honestly, everything he says happened up until the moment of her disappearance is probably nicely backed up by forensics and in some ways is a moot point. e.g. (and imo):

Yes, the CCTV showed her willingly getting into his car
Yes, there is evidence she was in the passenger seat, alive
Yes, there is evidence of sexual activity on the bench
No, she was not in his car deceased
No, she was never in his car boot or his house

Aside from the police saying homicide I don't honestly think I could (as a juror) convict him of anything. I'm still pretty certain he knows more and it would be interesting to know just how much he has told the police about that night. My gut says whatever evidence they have matches his version of events.

 

[Winterbells]

Watching and being watched seem to be his main fetishes. I can't understand how capturing a young woman would give him the opportunity to satisfy either. Not that I am in any doubt he's responsible for Libby's abduction and death.

 

[Sally4x]

Watching and being watched seem to be his main fetishes. I can't understand how capturing a young woman would give him the opportunity to satisfy either. Not that I am in any doubt he's responsible for Libby's abduction and death.

His crimes were getting more regular. I think he saw an opportunity and took it.

 

[Skigh]

I wonder if now the true details of his depraved activities are now public ,that the people seen near the park might come forward or someone else might give new information to the police.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

His crimes were getting more regular. I think he saw an opportunity and took it.

I do too, Sally. He was getting bolder and being careless, losing control. I just hope there is some sort of evidence to prove what happened one way or the other, but I'm not convinced there is.

Hoping next week might bring us more news, but I think an appeal is more likely than a confession.

 

[JosieJo]

Maybe because she was so vulnerable due to alcohol he thought he could perform in front of her longer

 

[Miss_French]

I thought I read (quite recently but no idea where) that they had other CCTV of Libby on the bench (presumably Beverley Road) but it wasn't very clear. I wonder if this showed him approach her. It still doesn't seem clear though how they identified him as the person they needed to speak to unless he came forward himself or it was reported by someone else that he had said he picked her up.

They could have tracked him on CCTV. They know Libby was on the bench and even if CCTV wasn't clear they could have seen the direction taken from the bench around the corner, Spidercam footage gives them the car, other CCTV or traffic cameras give them a registration plate, find the owner.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I reckon the park bench is part of his story, and after he told them he (or they) was there they went down pronto and tested it. In fact, as that testing was done quickly and under cover of darkness, is it possible PR actually took them to it?

In all honestly, everything he says happened up until the moment of her disappearance is probably nicely backed up by forensics and in some ways is a moot point. e.g. (and imo):

Yes, the CCTV showed her willingly getting into his car
Yes, there is evidence she was in the passenger seat, alive
Yes, there is evidence of sexual activity on the bench
No, she was not in his car deceased
No, she was never in his car boot or his house

Aside from the police saying homicide I don't honestly think I could (as a juror) convict him of anything. I'm still pretty certain he knows more and it would be interesting to know just how much he has told the police about that night. My gut says whatever evidence they have matches his version of events.

I was discussing very similar point last night about him. I believe exactly what you have said and I additionally wondered if plea-ing guilty at the recent trial was to sort of show he was a good enough character (cough) to admit to the truth, in the hope he would be more believed saying he was innocent with regards to Libby. (Though obviously he might just have been advised to plea guilty by his lawyer as they predicted a long sentence). JMO

 

[Officer Dibble]

His crimes were getting more regular. I think he saw an opportunity and took it.

From the very beginning I said he was restling with his thoughts in Spider Cam.

 

[Winterbells]

Maybe because she was so vulnerable due to alcohol he thought he could perform in front of her longer

I guess trapped in his car she'd have no option but to be present for the performance, even if he couldn't force her to observe it.

 

[Newthoughts]

I also think it is possible he went to the police himself with the "i picked her up to help her story"..there was a short period where they requested the man in the car to come forward who helped her ..before they came forward ..its possible he thought he had been seen and it was him

I must admit I don't think he did go to the police. From what we've seen he appeared too cocky to worry about anything. IMO he's totally unaware of spidercam.

This is a man that continued plead not guilty up until trial knowing there was substantial evidence against him (the stuff stolen from Ventnor Street was found in his possession for one thing). He seems far too confident - tho to be fair he had evaded arrest for at least 2 years so maybe with justification.

I'd assumed his arrest was either via spidercam coupled with ANPR / other CCTV or somebody reporting something.

Just my opinion tho.

I still don't understand the failure to place his prints and DNA onto police records statement. This is ignorance on my part but - clearly they kept those records from his prior offences otherwise they couldn't have charged him with those crimes.

Clearly he'd never been arrested so prints and DNA wouldn't lead to him initially.

But surely prints and DNA should / must go onto some kind of database so that when someone is arrested or the same evidence appears in a different crime scene - it would flag it up?

In his case couldn't that have meant something would have come up when DNA and prints from his second and subsequent offences were found, at least alerting LE to the fact they had a serial offender even if they didn't know who it was.

Otherwise what is the point of a DNA database of evidence?

 

[Newthoughts]

His crimes were getting more regular. I think he saw an opportunity and took it.

My opinion, and it's only my opinion, is that he was ready to escalate and Libby was just his first opportunity. I think, and again it's only my opinion, that if she hadn't been there that night - he'd have found someone. He was already breaking into houses. There is no reason whatsoever for him to have been parked where he was that night. It's location makes it an ideal place for looking out for students.

The judge didn't buy the defence claim that his crimes were opportunistic and neither do I. I think he'd thought about them and that makes me wonder if he'd started to think about how to escalate.

We also don't know what else he's done. I don't think his offending started in 2017. I think the crimes he was committing aren't taken too seriously by police. I think they're difficult to prove in many cases - unless DNA is both left and collected

Wasn't preventing him entering areas with student populations mentioned as part of the SHPO?

 

[Newthoughts]

From what little we

I guess trapped in his car she'd have no option but to be present for the performance, even if he couldn't force her to observe it.

He's not nervous about being seen tho. In fact he seems remarkably confident about not being caught. So no reason at all for her to end up dead after seeing him.

 

[JosieJo]

Regards the DNA/prints database...is it just that they had the data from the crimes but he had never had any reason till that point to record his ?

 

[Armchair_Defective]

I just caught up on the thread. 8.5 years! I did way back, question him getting a longer sentence because of the emotional harm his crimes resulted in, he set out to intimidate and scare with a campaign of offences and the judge saw that as his main motivation.
As the judge said - he's a dangerous individual. He was into overstepping boundaries by stealing intimate items and entering victims homes. The scream mask is terrifying and why would he need it if he was so brazen and had his face seen many times? I wouldn't be surprised if he committed rapes before his recent arrest. He seemed to target young students, maybe on nights out, some of the incidents may never have been reported.
Men like this and many rapists have a great deal of anger towards women, seeing them as deserving of punishment either because they believe victims have rejected them - or that they are morally deserving of punishment. The 'defiling' that went on in homes and on victim's doors, seems like he is disgusted by his victims. For this reason, I can believe he may have sought to punish a victim in the ultimate way, killing as an escalation of his offending.
The details of what he did with the underwear reminds me of serial killer Russell Williams. The crying in court I'm sure was for himself, realising that he doesn't have control of how people see him now, he's a certified degenerate sex offender.

 

[JosieJo]

From what little we

He's not nervous about being seen tho. In fact he seems remarkably confident about not being caught. So no reason at all for her to end up dead after seeing him.

Imo although he liked to strike fear into his victims requiring them seeing him ...it could never be for more than a few seconds whereas in libbys case he could have predicted longer
Maybe also being drunk he felt more confident with her to try further

I think any level of attack could have happened from from her being petrified to murder