CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[GordianKnot]

Agree that timing doesnt fit. In addition, nearly everyday here in SoCal I see news alerts where someone has gone missing or is lost while hiking here in the mountains and deserts.

Yeah, timing doesn't work at all and that whole SP story is a total bunch of hooey, anyway, so there's that, too.

JMO.

 

[155etta]

I know we can never assume anything in these cases - but surely LE has the camera and has examined it ? Why not release the picture of her (there is one right?) which confirms what she was wearing at the time the picture was taken ?? Why the secrecy in this case ? Unless they have evidence that the release of the picture does not matter because they aren’t searching for a kidnapped alive BT now? JMO

Or if it is indeed a picture of her in her underwear. I'm not sure they would release that picture. Maybe RT refuses to let that picture be released to the public. MOO

 

[coffeebreak]

Already been discussed. Edited by me.

 

[k-mac]

murky would be moo. anything mlm gives me goosebumps at this point

absolutely no connection dbdb11.
my post is not connected to any implication of such so hope that clears that up for you.

 

[Kapua]

And that’s precisely the issue.

Say she became disoriented and wandered away from the RV.

It’s not like she could have traveled a tremendous distance.

People don’t get heat stroke, and deliriously wander for days.

I don’t think search teams missed her.

Search teams missing her is inconsistent with her ~1/4 mile walk on a clear path back to the RV, and somewhat insulting to the SAR teams equipped with off-road vehicles, helicopters, and search dogs. IMHO

 

[MassGuy]

Search teams missing her is inconsistent with her ~1/4 mile walk on a clear path back to the RV, and somewhat insulting to the SAR teams equipped with off-road vehicles, helicopters, and search dogs. IMHO

Exactly. And that’s the fallacy in comparing typical missing hiker cases, to this one.

People go missing, succumb to the elements, and lie undiscovered for periods of time.

But not like this.

 

[wary]

Search teams missing her is inconsistent with her ~1/4 mile walk on a clear path back to the RV, and somewhat insulting to the SAR teams equipped with off-road vehicles, helicopters, and search dogs. IMHO

I don’t see it as being a bit insulting—just a recognitions that sometimes SAR teams, and dogs, don’t find people. They themselves realized that they needed to search much farther than that 1/4 mile piece of trail back to the RV.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Search teams missing her is inconsistent with her ~1/4 mile walk on a clear path back to the RV, and somewhat insulting to the SAR teams equipped with off-road vehicles, helicopters, and search dogs. IMHO

Nah. It's just unbelievably difficult to find someone in that terrain.
They need to go beyond that 1/4 mark; disoriented people can walk far in a short period of time. She's out there waiting to come home...

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

Something is going on behind the scenes, that's for sure.

Respectively snipped for commentary focus.
Yes.....for sure. Chances are we will hear something soon, one way or another.

Amateur opinion and speculation.

 

[GordianKnot]

Nah. It's just unbelievably difficult to find someone in that terrain.
They need to go beyond that 1/4 mark; disoriented people can walk far in a short period of time. She's out there waiting to come home...

Amateur opinion and speculation

Nah.
She ain't there.
If she were, they would have found some sign of her somewhere.
A bootprint. Her hat. Something.
They're going to need to look elsewhere for her.
Possibly a different location in that desert.

JMO.

 

[Kapua]

Nah. It's just unbelievably difficult to find someone in that terrain.
They need to go beyond that 1/4 mark; disoriented people can walk far in a short period of time. She's out there waiting to come home...

Amateur opinion and speculation

You are entitled to your opinion. However, looking at the exact portion of the trail on which she was reportedly walking back to the road, she would have, IMHO, been able to see the road and the RV, and there was no need to veer off-trail and risk getting poked by the cholla cactus. So in this particular situation, I am not a subscriber of the lost, disoriented, wandered off-trail and is still there theory . MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

Nah. It's just unbelievably difficult to find someone in that terrain.
They need to go beyond that 1/4 mark; disoriented people can walk far in a short period of time. She's out there waiting to come home...

Amateur opinion and speculation

I respectfully disagree with this particular situation. She would not have gotten far.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Nah.
She ain't there.
If she were, they would have found some sign of her somewhere.
A bootprint. Her hat. Something.
They're going to need to look elsewhere for her.
Possibly a different location in that desert.

JMO.

Yes, perhaps.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I respectfully disagree with this particular situation. She would not have gotten far.

If we're lucky, we'll eventually find out who speculated correctly. Let's pray that happens.

 

[rosesfromangels]

You are entitled to your opinion. However, looking at the exact portion of the trail on which she was reportedly walking back to the road, she would have, IMHO, been able to see the road and the RV, and there was no need to veer off-trail and risk getting poked by the cholla cactus. So in this particular situation, I am not a subscriber of the lost, disoriented, wandered off-trail and is still there theory . MOO

Per my last post - let's pray we get to figure out who speculated correctly.
I think she's close by the last sighting. We'll see. Bottom line, regardless of where she is, I pray we find her.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Nah. It's just unbelievably difficult to find someone in that terrain.
They need to go beyond that 1/4 mark; disoriented people can walk far in a short period of time. She's out there waiting to come home...

Amateur opinion and speculation

But, but, but - the terrain is flat. No tall trees to obstruct views and the trails are clear and well defined.

The trail from the rock formation led straight to the road where the RV was parked. Doubtful she got disoriented in the short amount of time it would take to walk the quarter mile.

Agree though that Barb is elsewhere. We desperately need clues to find her. IMO, our hands are somewhat tied with the limited information we have. Where are you Barb?

 

[PommyMommy]

From @sroad, thread #3 post #14

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #3

I don't think enough information has been released for me to have any ideas on what really happened. That said, a hit and run on a clear day with as much traffic (a car every couple minutes sometimes more), or animal attack is not what I think happened. (Mountain lions avoid humans and attacks are extremely rare and that would have left clues, not to mention drag marks, etc).

Getting lost for that particular place is hard to believe as well, as there is a non-motorized trail which they presumably hiked, and Kelbaker road is visible, and audible. Also, very few hikers hike off trail, those who do would not be wanting to wear shorts, as the area is filled with various cholla cacti, which have hooks that get into your legs, very unpleasant to get stuck by those! Even the I-40 is visible and a turnout at the pass is visible by eye. Less than a mile west of the road which runs north/south you have Granite Mountain, which is a sheer wall of rocks, she wouldn't have walked that way, unless extremely disoriented. They don't sound like rock climbers, so that's highly unlikely.

I'm hoping the husband will offer much more specifics about the hike and time than he did in those two short interviews. Some mention all they had was a beer, another article mentions they brought a gallon of water as well. That small detail makes a big difference in how far you can hike. A beer in hand, and your hike during mid-day is limited to no more than a mile or two, but a gallon of water, and now you'd have to expand the possible range to search by a few more miles.

Having hiked at this location my main observation was just how many places there are there to shelter from the intense sun, which of course also makes the search harder and makes it harder for aerial photography to pick up any clues. The scattered boulders south of the main rock formations also had lots of nooks and crannies to hide. I noticed SARS had tags going for about a mile south, so it looks like they covered that area as well.

If I were in trouble with the heat I might be tempted to go under a large boulder and wait to feel better, these are great sheltering places, but that is not what Robert Thomas suggested. He implied they had already gone to the rocks and were on their way back, between the main rock formations and the trailer there are no rock formations to hide. If she had gone for the closest boulder formations, she would have been found though, because they searched those formations extensively, see attached photo for an example.

It is uphill to the boulder formations from the trailer location and only .5 miles away, downhill back to the trailer, so getting back would have made more sense for me if I thought I was in heat trouble. But RT did not mention his wife had issues with the heat during that hike.

I'll attach a few more pics so you can see landscape and trailer location in relation to the surrounding landscape. Last photo shows the wall of rocks on the western side and a orange tag showing they searched to that extend.

Attached Files:

 

[PommyMommy]

From @sroad, thread #3

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #3

Last two photos to go with above post:

 

[firstsleuth]

Respectfully copied and pasted from blue post above (VI’s sister’s text msg) and snipped by me for focus:

BBM; ITA

“they lost sight of each other for 5-10 minutes before she “vanished” and he went back to their rv to see if she had returned but it was still locked so that meant she hadn’t come back yet (they had put the key under a rock which they both knew the location of). so he went back to check a shaded cave that they had found together earlier thinking she may have been taking a break from the heat but she wasn’t there either. he still wasn’t worried at this point because.. i don’t remember why he said he wasn’t yet worried. maybe because they both knew the area?”

Just noticed another discrepancy. Seems he was not so certain where or when he expected her to be? Very different narrative than “needing to ?.. (word not clear in interview) the RV” from the Inside Edition interview.

Not saying this happened here, but my husband and I have needed space from each other on a couple of hikes. Our rule is if tempers flare we respect the other if we need a break. Usually we stay within sight of each other — but certainly not a requirement. Neither of us would worry until an hour had passed

MOO and my own experience

ETA: VI’s sister may have been referencing after RT (not BT as originally added to my edit) had gone to shady cave to look? I’m trying not to pick at every single word, but I just noticed this today and felt a jolt of realization inside...may not mean anything tho

Edited the ETA for correction in parentheses above

Edited again to add: Very interested in others’ opinions on this...it could explain so much...MOO

How Many Times Did BT Vanish?


@firstsleuth Thx for your post w quote from @dbdb11's sister's text msg, which I snipped for focus. Let's say for sake of discussion, RT literally/verbatim
said on the phone to fam member - "We lost sight of each other for 5-10 min before she vanished."

Huh? What's that? If RT & BT had already lost sight of each other for 5-10 minutes, then she had already vanished/was out of site, before she "vanished."

How to understand/explain ^ stmt?
1. Under stress of the situation, RT spoke less precisely/less accurately than we sleuthers would wish for in every MisPers case? IOW maybe he just repeated that she vanished, a slip of the tongue anyone could make. Jmo, <<< possible.

2. During the 5-10 min RT & BT lost sight of each other, they were still within hearing range of each other, and they were speaking to one another? Then BT visually "vanished" afterward. Jmo <<< possible. (What would they be talking about, presumably talking loudly, then more loudly, as she walked further away?)

3. They lost sight of each other. Then something happened, something he does not want to talk about. Afterward he returned to RV. Jmo, <<< possible.

4. Other??? What explanation am I overlooking?

Taken w a few of his other stmts (polygraph, crime scene, prime suspect, etc.), ^ seems a bit unusual.

Excellent observation. An alternate explanation which takes RT at his word is implied in the title of your post and in your first possibility. It could be that RT saw BT ahead of him, then she rounded a bend or went behind something, and then 5-10 minutes afterwards, when he expected to see her because she should've been on the path, she wasn't there. But I agree that it's an odd way to put it. JMO

She only vanished once...

I’m going to try to re-state my questions and points again regarding my post bumped above regarding inconsistency (besides the time of day) between RT’s call to his brother-in-law and tv interviews. I don’t want to send anyone off track. However, I believe it could be important. MOO


MY QUESTION:

Why did RT state to his brother in law (their conversation texted to VI by his sister) that “he went back to their RV to see IF she had returned”? Key word = IF; italics and caps by me for focus

VERY different wording from televised interviews when RT stated “She needed to ??? the RV”

RT and BT ALREADY were on their way back to the RV; AND, according to the televised interviews and RT’s call to his brother in law, they were very close; it seems instead he would have EXPECTED her to be there; he wouldn’t be going to the RV to see IF she was there.

My conjecture: they had some sort of conflict; she left (maybe to calm down) and that’s why “he still wasn’t worried at this point”

More questions:

Why the different wording? Can it be explained by the VI’s sister’s memories of the call?

Or, can it be explained by RT’s state of mind at the time? Perhaps he misspoke?

Or, perhaps embarrassed to admit a conflict? If the answer to this is yes, I agree with others here...time to broaden the search area

Thanks to Lahiker and al66pine for responding and to all here taking the time to consider additional questions regarding the inconsistencies; or...I’m fine sending it to the glue factory ...

 

[kay74]

But, but, but - the terrain is flat. No tall trees to obstruct views and the trails are clear and well defined.

The trail from the rock formation led straight to the road where the RV was parked. Doubtful she got disoriented in the short amount of time it would take to walk the quarter mile.

Agree though that Barb is elsewhere. We desperately need clues to find her. IMO, our hands are somewhat tied with the limited information we have. Where are you Barb?

It's not really flat. When you look out at it, there are little hills after hills. If someone were laying there you would have a hard time seeing them unless you got close up.