CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[PommyMommy]

@sroad post from thread 2, post #687

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2

Hi all,
My wife and I spend several days camping in the area where Barbara went missing (I'm a bit of a desert rat, so did some 2.5 mile loops to search as well), and I chatted briefly with the Sheriff at their Incident Command post trailer as well as ran into some of the nice SAR folks Sunday morning who were at that time covering the eastern side of Kelbaker road, the least likely side BT would have gone as that was on the other side of Kelbaker road that they had hiked). I saw them search again east of the road with K9 units until yesterday morning (Sunday). They then suspended the search at the Kelbaker road location some time later that morning, leaving just the porta potties which were still there today. I confirmed on Saturday with the Sheriff the precise location where the Thompsons had parked their 5th Wheel, the same location they had set up. I'll try posting Google Earth pics and pics of the environment if anyone is interested. It was NOT 20 miles north of I40 like the reports says and like the speculation on this thread and all over social media goes, (the media everywhere repeated or regurgitated this over 10 days without fact checking). The location is 6.3 miles north of the I-40 in a large turnout that can accommodate a Dually and 5th Wheel. There is a nonmotorized trail directly opposite of that turnout that leads to the closest rock formations which contain lots of nooks and crannies which you can see were searched by the SARS folks. Folks in this thread (haven't been able to read all of it) are asking about cell service. My phone did not work west of Kelbaker road, and barely worked a little ways east of the turnout. So likely even if she did have a phone she would not have been able to call for help. The road generates a lot of noise (it seemed to average about a car every few minutes) and could easily be heard from half a mile away. The Incident Command Trailer was about as large as the trailer the Thompsons had and large enough to stick out over the mostly creosote vegetation, so you would have been able to see it with the naked eye from a mile away from most directions provided you got up on a bit higher ground, like a small hill side or rock. It is true that there are plenty of bends on the nonmotorized trail leading to the rock formations ("rounding a corner" is a figure of speech in this case) in the dirt road they allegedly took to get to the rock formations. There is a pole line dirt road that intersects it perpendicularly. So it would be fairly easy to lose sight of each other even within a few hundred feet behind the creosotes. The temps where in the 90's up there this weekend, due to the higher 3800 foot elevation. There are tons of places to seek shade there, gullies, rock formations, boulders with openings and cracks, pines and dense thickets. The search area was marked with flagging for several square miles. I've also included a map I drew of a plausible hike that is a round trip a little over a mile that goes to the nearest rock formation. It's possible they went to the next rock formation, but if you're hiking around noon time in the upper 90's and drinking dehydrating alcohol, I don't think you can do much more than 2 miles before calling it good.

 

[rosesfromangels]

But, but, but - the terrain is flat. No tall trees to obstruct views and the trails are clear and well defined.

The trail from the rock formation led straight to the road where the RV was parked. Doubtful she got disoriented in the short amount of time it would take to walk the quarter mile.

Agree though that Barb is elsewhere. We desperately need clues to find her. IMO, our hands are somewhat tied with the limited information we have. Where are you Barb?

I know you are joined in this speculation with many others on the thread. My search experience (although nothing like SAR professionals) has taught me it is just so gosh darn difficult to find people outdoors. I vote for another search extended beyond the 1/4 mile radius.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Knox]

It's not really flat. When you look out at it, there are little hills after hills. If someone were laying there you would have a hard time seeing them unless you got close up.

True, but SAR spent nine days searching the area and she wasn't found "laying" anywhere. IMO she will be found nearby, but not "there".

 

[kay74]

True, but SAR spent nine days searching the area and she wasn't found "laying" anywhere. IMO she will be found nearby, but not "there".

I agree!

 

[PommyMommy]

@sroad, Thread #3, post 733

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #3

Getting on the roof and honking would have been a good strategy, the sound would have carried easily a mile up there! I want to point out that the north south dirt road that intersects the trail to the nearest rock formations with the "caves" as RT calls them is a pole line road, so if BT had accidentally gotten onto this dirt road she would realize pretty quick that this is different due to the power poles adjacent to the dirt road, and due to the fact that she was now walking parallel to Kelbaker Rd instead of towards it. On Google Earth you don't see many bends in the main trail, but I was surprised at how I could only see about 100-150 feet of the dirt road at a time before it "rounded a corner" which really means rounds a bend.

Also want to reiterate that going cross country through this terrain (which I did most of the time to search), is rife with pencil cholla and other cholla type cacti (the spines have hooks that are painful to pull out of the skin) . I was wearing long pants, and those hooks still got me on a number of occasions, and I'm used to walking cross country through the deserts. So she would have not willingly chosen to hike off-trail, it's just a lot more painful to walk in shorts through the denser vegetation. I'm attaching the trail and view towards the 5th wheel trailer turnout parking area.

 

[LietKynes]

I think I understand where this could lead. And that you appear to be on the right track. There is something hiding in all this picture taking. IMO as always.



We know he made that call. Do they really know exactly from where?

.

BBM

First bolded : Agreed, @Jim_M !

Second bolded : No, we do not know if the call came from where Barbara supposedly 'vanished' ; or if RT drove elsewhere to place his call at 3:26pm.

I'd expect LE know this by now.

Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'

Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'

Thanks for the link, @oceanstarryeyes .
Yet another description of her clothing.

This time it's a "red and white" cap.
Of some importance --although this was mentioned in an earlier article -- RT was 'putting away' his camera as Barbara turned the corner and disappeared.
So he was done taking photos.
He should have been fairly close behind her.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I know you are joined in this speculation with many others on the thread. My search experience (although nothing like SAR professionals) has taught me it is just so gosh darn difficult to find people outdoors. I vote for another search extended beyond the 1/4 mile radius.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I am curious about cases like the Schmierers in the context of search success. He was found 3 days into the search, so presumably within the 36-mile search radius. She's found almost a year later. Outside the radius? Or missed by searchers? No matter what, a heartbreaking story.

I do agree with other posters, though - their hike was different from Barbara's short walk. I can't quite believe that she made it out of the radius of this 9-day search on her own power. Still, strange things (and mountain lions) happen. Searchers may have missed her within the radius. But again - where's the beer container? At some point in delirium, she probably would have dropped it on the ground, unless she fell into an opening with it. I think there's more going on behind the scenes, too.

 

[Kapua]

Per my last post - let's pray we get to figure out who speculated correctly.
I think she's close by the last sighting. We'll see. Bottom line, regardless of where she is, I pray we find her.

I don't care who speculated correctly. I only want Barbara to be found.

 

[LietKynes]

She only vanished once...

I’m going to try to re-state my questions and points again regarding my post bumped above regarding inconsistency (besides the time of day) between RT’s call to his brother-in-law and tv interviews. I don’t want to send anyone off track. However, I believe it could be important. MOO


MY QUESTION:

Why did RT state to his brother in law (their conversation texted to VI by his sister) that “he went back to their RV to see IF she had returned”? Key word = IF; italics and caps by me for focus

VERY different wording from televised interviews when RT stated “She needed to ??? the RV”

RT and BT ALREADY were on their way back to the RV; AND, according to the televised interviews and RT’s call to his brother in law, they were very close; it seems instead he would have EXPECTED her to be there; he wouldn’t be going to the RV to see IF she was there.

My conjecture: they had some sort of conflict; she left (maybe to calm down) and that’s why “he still wasn’t worried at this point”

More questions:

Why the different wording? Can it be explained by the VI’s sister’s memories of the call?

Or, can it be explained by RT’s state of mind at the time? Perhaps he misspoke?

Or, perhaps embarrassed to admit a conflict? If the answer to this is yes, I agree with others here...time to broaden the search area

Thanks to Lahiker and al66pine for responding and to all here taking the time to consider additional questions regarding the inconsistencies; or...I’m fine sending it to the glue factory ...

Additional bolding mine

Great observations, @firstsleuth .

As far as the sister's memories of the call, memories can be faulty -- especially in moments of stress.
The call logs state that the first 911 call received was at 3:26 pm.
Thus, no calls at noon.
RT may have possibly mistaken noon for 3:26-30 pm if he wasn't wearing a watch or was an inexperienced hiker.
As in --someone who is out for a large portion of the day enjoying nature and forgetting what time it is.

 

[Gigi3]

Surely RT would have told LE if Barb was acting disoriented in their walk back? I find it hard to believe in the 5 mins it took him to round that corner ( and I’m saying 5 mins because he has said he was already putting camera away- so it couldn’t have been much more IMO) that Barb became so disoriented and lost in that short time frame. I would think she would’ve been showing some symptoms prior to that time. I actually had this happen and passed out due to dehydration and heat ( having a little too much fun some years ago) but my husband said that my behavior changed prior to my passing out. Of course I don’t remember any of that!
I think it’s quite possible given what we know of time discrepancies that they were at that location, took that walk, snapped some pics, and traveled to a DIFFERENT location, and Barb goes missing.
RT travels back to the previous location and makes the call for help. All my opinion of course.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I don't care who speculated correctly. I only want Barbara to be found.

This! We can all speculate without some imagined competition. There is none.

 

[al66pine]

Since Barbara was walking ahead of Robert, she would be walking with her back facing Robert, Robert not being in her sight at this point.
Since Robert was making pictures of something, he did not have Barbara in his sight at that point, just like he wasn't in Barbara's sight.
He did see her briefly in the distance when putting his camera away. She turned a corner, and vanished shortly after.
She did not vanish twice. IMO

@Micheline Thanks for your post, which made me think about how several of us posting re 'vanish' and 'out of sight' may use those words, interp'ing differently from one another and interp'ing differently from RT. Did RT use 'out of sight' and vanished as synonymous? In an everyday sense they can be.

From my (al66pine) post 1056: @dbdb11's sister's text msg (snipped), said RT said. >>>"We lost sight of each other for 5-10 min before she vanished." <<<

can be parsed down (to nearly molecular level) as follows:

"We lost sight of each other for 5-10 min " { <First time vanishing <<< that explicitly states a limited time period, so either they both later caught sight of each other or he later caught sight of her.} before she vanished." {< Second time vanishing}.

Which means, what? Maybe nothing at all? Was there a time gap - short, like one-two minutes, or longer, like one-two hours - between her two disappearances. What happened during that time gap? Maybe something RT did not mention to LE? To family? In MSM interviews? IDK.

As noted in my earlier post, maybe RT's phrasing was a slip of the tongue and there was only one disappearance. IDK.
Some wonder if BT ever arrived at that turnout that day? If not, then we can parse away endlessly without helping resolve BT's disappearance.
jmo

 

[LietKynes]

BBM I couldn't agree more. So, to be crystal clear...

Dispatch Call Log – San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department
7/12/2019 3:26:24 PM CR CR191930018 CRR1900230 MISPER NAT 936** HIDDEN HILLS RD, KEL

Thanks for verifying the 911 call, @PommyMommy.
People's recollections can be iffy at best.
At this time-- this is all of the factual information we have.
We don't even know what she was wearing.
Or if the photo is legit. ; re. her clothing worn on the day she disappeared.

LE haven't divulged what she was wearing when spotted on the neighbor's surveillance or at the dog kennel ; but I think they know.

And just to clarify : The media and their reporters may not be the ones responsible for this misinformation about her appearance.
I'm a little hard on the media for misreporting as they have been known to do.
But otoh, they can only go with what information they're given.

...in the time between the kennel and the 3pm dispatch call. even smaller range between the last photo of barb near kelbaker/hidden hills and the dispatch call.

Snipped for focus

Agreed, @dbdb11 .
That is a large territory to cover.
She could be anywhere .

What if...

What if RT and BT had stopped at that same pullout/trail for a hike not too long ago -- say, within the last few months? A nice walk was had, and photos were taken.

If those photos showed BT in a bikini top, it might actually make more sense that in one of the warm days of spring, a desert fan like her might relish getting some sun on her skin, without the worries that accompany a 100+ degree day.

Then what if, on July 12, after they left home & the neighbor's camera, the kennel, etc, they headed out somewhere within a few hours driving time of their home.

Then what if something happened to BT at that unknown location?

Then what if the RV, without BT, went to the Kelbaker location and parked and LE was called and the recent photos were shown and told they were of that day. This probably requires alteration of metadata, unless they were Polaroids or other old-school photos?

A stretch, but I'm looking for ways that "I last saw her at noon" could be a true statement combined with LE call at 3:26.

Also entirely possible that, at Kelbaker location, he last saw her at noon and then searched for 3 hours, without realizing how much time went by, before calling LE?

Emph. mine.

Anything is possible.
We've changed the dates on our digital camera as I'd reset it to factory settings due to focus issues ; and the date changed to when it was first opened/ bought.

 

[LietKynes]

This is what I wonder too. But that unknown location could be ANYWHERE.

Agreed.
They should start searching after the dog kennel area.
Because nothing is verified about her location .
LE haven't released any proof that she was at the desert where she vanished; but they've stated to the VI that they think she was at that location.
Not sure yet about the time.

The silence surrounding this case from LE makes me hope they're working on a solid lead.
Hoping.

 

[PaulaDC]

Interesting article

Murder in the Mojave: Homicides and Body Dumps in the California Desert

 

[Stripehaven]

I am curious about cases like the Schmierers in the context of search success. He was found 3 days into the search, so presumably within the 36-mile search radius. She's found almost a year later. Outside the radius? Or missed by searchers? No matter what, a heartbreaking story.

I do agree with other posters, though - their hike was different from Barbara's short walk. I can't quite believe that she made it out of the radius of this 9-day search on her own power. Still, strange things (and mountain lions) happen. Searchers may have missed her within the radius. But again - where's the beer container? At some point in delirium, she probably would have dropped it on the ground, unless she fell into an opening with it. I think there's more going on behind the scenes, too.

@sroad also confirmed that the trail is very clear and obvious. IIRC there was one possible branch but even that would have gone back to the road.

 

[margarita25]

Interesting article

Murder in the Mojave: Homicides and Body Dumps in the California Desert

Interesting article indeed, thanks.

“It is, in fact, the only place on Earth that the Joshua tree survives. But some aren't so lucky. After all, this is where the bodies get dumped in pretty much every R-rated Las Vegas film. From The Hangover to Casino: The trunk goes up, the body comes out, the trunk goes down, the car drives away.

The culture of crime here traces back to the Wild West, when cowboys and outlaws passed hot days with moonshine, shotguns, and the "last great manhunt" of a young Native American called Willie Boy. In many ways, the communities developed in its harsh, barren landscape haven't put their dukes down since. And so it calls those who don't want to be bothered, or caught. As Deanne Stillman, author of Mojave true crime book Twentynine Palms, emailed me, "Anything goes there—there are few checks or balances, other than your own compass."”

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Additional bolding mine

Great observations, @firstsleuth .

As far as the sister's memories of the call, memories can be faulty -- especially in moments of stress.
The call logs state that the first 911 call received was at 3:26 pm.
Thus, no calls at noon.
RT may have possibly mistaken noon for 3:26-30 pm if he wasn't wearing a watch or was an inexperienced hiker.
As in --someone who is out for a large portion of the day enjoying nature and forgetting what time it is.

Televised interviews changed the wording and RT went to the RV to see if BT was there because BT went ahead of him on the trail.

 

[LAhiker]

Nah. It's just unbelievably difficult to find someone in that terrain.
They need to go beyond that 1/4 mark; disoriented people can walk far in a short period of time. She's out there waiting to come home...

Amateur opinion and speculation

From @sroad, thread #3 post #14

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #3

If SAR searched where @sroad said they did, based on their flags, they did search considerably beyond the 1/4 mile. They searched at least as far as the rock formation, which I think is around a mile from the road. And I'm sure that in 9 days (an unusually long time to search in the desert) they also searched a fairly wide area, including across the road.

Though it is true that SAR has occasionally missed people, they are professionals who know how people can get disoriented and lost in the desert -- searching for people in situations like that is what they do. JMO

 

[slowpoke]

I went back to early posts, since we sadly are lacking new info.
dbdb11 has said that RT said that the 360 photo BT took while up on the hill that day in their walk included “cars in the parking lot below” and RT was very upset police were not looking into the owners of those cars as “potential suspects”.

So, based on RT’s words, others were there in the general area where RT and BT were. They weren’t alone alone.
I do wonder if LE was able to find and interview these vehicle owners. I hope so. And where is this parking lot? Did we ever have a probable guess on which lot this would be?

Dbdb11’s post where he mentions this:
CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4