Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

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Cryptic said:
Expanding on that possibility, the vehicle the police are interested in is not commercial, nor were any strangely parked commercial vehicles seen by witnesses.

But.... perhaps the individual works as an independent hauler or courier who contracts for short notice local deliveries? I don't know if the Layette area is large enough to support such people though.
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Or works as one who shuttles people to and from an auto place (or a "parts" courier?) maybe using dealer or temp plates, was out on a "work trek", ON time clock but doing nefarious things?
 
TL4S said:
Very true! Honestly, I had myself pretty convinced that BG didn't cross the creek until I heard the interview with Riley posted recently. My interpretation was that LE thinks he's local in part because he had to know the creek.
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I definitely agree that he knew the area VERY well and perhaps that's why he didn't cross the creek at that time of year. My personal feelings are, whoever it was, it was well planned, he just needed the opportune moment to strike. JMO
 
tresir2012 said:
Ok so there legs free and only hands zip tied. Reminds me off a way to get out of zip tied hands. Anyone seen it? I'll post a link.

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So, let's try that with hands wrapped up with duck/tuck tape.
Besides, I don't think Abby and Libby were left alone long enough to do that. Although, if one found oneself in that situation and had some time on their hands, it's a great method. JMO
 
Charlot123 said:
But did anyone say he was wet, with sand and grass stuck to clothes? This is something people would report.
And we even don't know if Abby's and Libby's clothes were wet.
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MOO Terrain was leafy, no grass yet. Half an hour of dry time and pants wet the knee would be dry enough to not appear as soaking wet, especially from any distance.

I don't think he exited where anyone saw him, in my opinion the suspect entered on the south side and left on the south side.

But if it was an unplanned crime so that the suspect entered on the north and consequently after the crime had a parked car stranded on the north side, I would think if he was at all familiar with the area, he would not go get it by openly walking the north side trail or 300.
With a little more effort and an extra mile he could wrap around the park to the south and get to the stranded car up i25..
 
TL4S said:
It's crazy. There's all this talk about the creek, but we have no clear answers about whether the girls crossed, and/or when/if BG crossed.
  • Riley talks about BG probably knowing the creek - how deep it is, where to cross, etc. Holeman said that a creek crossing would be difficult for the girls, but it's never been stated outright whether they did.
  • KG says searchers on the south side of the creek found a shoe, so they then looked across the creek and saw the bodies. Does that mean the shoe was on the south side of the creek, in the creek, or on the north side and merely spotted from the south side (possibly even with binoculars or a scope)?
  • There are at least two reports (that can't be linked here: one via scanner thread, another through a reporter) of an article of clothing found somewhere near the water, but I'm not sure exactly where, or if it's related.
  • BG was videoed on the south end of the bridge, and the CS was on the north side of the creek.
  • LE had searchers in the creek by the CS.
It all hints at a creek crossing, but it's still all speculation. The fact that the crime happened near a creek clearly makes the creek part of the search area, IMO, since it would be a prime spot to discard evidence. Plus in this case, it appears the crime began on one side, and ended on the other. Like I said, it's crazy!
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People said once that crossing the creek might have been the way to get rid of his DNA, he was standing close to the girls at one point, but it is touch DNA, might have been washed off by the water.
 
I don’t think crossing a creek is too difficult for someone capable of murdering two children. As @TL4S Posted, many details and interviews seem to indicate that they did at some point cross the creek.

Parts of the creek are crossable, leading LE to believe he was familiar with that area to know where to cross.
 
Boxer said:
MOO Terrain was leafy, no grass yet. Half an hour of dry time and pants wet the knee would be dry enough to not appear as soaking wet, especially from any distance.

I don't think he exited where anyone saw him, in my opinion the suspect entered on the south side and left on the south side.

But if it was an unplanned crime so that the suspect entered on the north and consequently after the crime had a parked car stranded on the north side, I would think if he was at all familiar with the area, he would not go get it by openly walking the north side trail or 300.
With a little more effort and an extra mile he could wrap around the park to the south and get to the stranded car up i25..
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You know, I think it was unplanned in the way that he expected to meet only one girl, the one he agreed to meet at the trails.

I don't know what he planned to do with that girl, to rape, kill, or like JP, get for a girlfriend? God knows these young men. But the tiny snippets of what we know about the tape...

The girls are talking about the creepy guy. Could it be something like, "where is your friend? I hope it is not that creepy guy we saw, but there is no one else here..." And then Libby said, "the trail ends here". Did she mean, they have followed all the trail, and haven't found anyone, so she assumed, he stood them up?

They probably expected someone very different... and the BG being older, but still from Delphi, might have known something about them, the school, be intriguing the girl online, hinting that he was from her class, or HS. It is so easy. One of them might have had crush on a local boy and expected him to be on the other end of the conversation! I mean, they were young, and they knew Delphi. Difficult to imagine something scary, right? It is like someone telling a kid to meet at a local park. The only thing is the high bridge, but it was local.

I think he was livid when he saw two girls instead of one, as he did not expect it. Maybe this is where he told Libby to leave (or, alternatively, Abby, if he was stalking Libby). Because someone said that one of the girls had the chance to leave but did not want to abandon the friend.

So maybe killing two was not planned, initially. And god knows what he planned to do with one. Maybe he did not plan to kill at all, just have a rendez-vous. But then he got angry, and the other one did not leave, and he just snapped, because he is a madman.

Is it possible, or not at all? This could explain so many things.


The only thing I don't understand is the recording. Anyone local, anyone known and suspected, and a voice analyzer...could do it. So the voice is of someone they don't suspect. But if he was wearing a mask with the full neck, that could have changed the timbre of the voice, although not the manner of speaking.
 
susiQ said:
So, let's try that with hands wrapped up with duck/tuck tape.
Besides, I don't think Abby and Libby were left alone long enough to do that. Although, if one found oneself in that situation and had some time on their hands, it's a great method. JMO
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I'm thinking of them being in the boot while the person drives around which would take some time so they could use teeth too. It's a good thing to learn. There are others which show different scenarios too, hands behind back etc. Didn't see any with duct tape. Not sure how difficult that is to remove.
 
tresir2012 said:
Ok so there legs free and only hands zip tied. Reminds me off a way to get out of zip tied hands. Anyone seen it? I'll post a link.

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Hi I’m behind in the conversation but wanted to say that coincidentally yesterday I spent a lot of time looking at “flex cuffs”...I saw a Forensic Files yesterday where those were referenced.

Anyway, I did lots of image comparison, BG image zoomed in against the flex cuffs...To me imo the white seems thicker and softer than the flex cuffs (zip ties) but it’s hard to tell. I was trying to compare the angles/shape of the circles.

max-cuff-disposable-double-restraints.jpg


Source: cabletiesandmore.com
 
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