Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

[JWSleuth]

Yes of course. And testimony needs to be backed with evidence from cases i have followed as well. Sadly sometimes perpetrators of a crime get away with their crime if LE can't find evidence circumstantial or otherwise to take it to Trial to gain a conviction.

I should also say, I should have separated that the Daniel Morcombe inquest shows us lessons to be learned.

I find it interesting the similarities in respect of the case I.e. going to inquest, having the inquest paused, too much information leading the investigation in the wrong direction, alibis wrongfully ruling out cowan in the beginning a very likely suspect, and the fact there is nothing you can do without the evidence regardless of who has been present at the inquest.

Makes me understand Daniels parents recs for an inquest. More so looking at the impossible as well as the easy answer and putting everyone on the table for consideration.

Edit to add:

Also that they knew it was Cowan post pausing the inquest but it took further (years and investigation tactics) to get what they needed for conviction and a guilty plea.

 

[Karinna]

I should also say, I should have separated that the Daniel Morcombe inquest shows us lessons to be learned.

I find it interesting the similarities in respect of the case I.e. going to inquest, having the inquest paused, too much information leading the investigation in the wrong direction, alibis wrongfully ruling out cowan in the beginning a very likely suspect, and the fact there is nothing you can do without the evidence regardless of who has been present at the inquest.

Makes me understand Daniels parents recs for an inquest. More so looking at the impossible as well as the easy answer and putting everyone on the table for consideration.

Edit to add:

Also that they knew it was Cowan post pausing the inquest but it took further (years and investigation tactics) to get what they needed for conviction and a guilty plea.

I didn't follow DM's case, but just from info. on the internet Cowan had a long history of preying on children, and by the time he was 18 had preyed on some 30 children.
And apparently his offending stretched back to when he was 9-10 years old.
He had also done time in prison after previous convictions for his horrific crimes from DNA evidence.
He was also suspected by police early in DM's disappearance.
Quite a violent history against children from what i read about the case. By the sound of it he should never of been released from prison to re offend.
Morcombe killer had long history of preying on children

 

[Wexford]

What was the false sighting

Dean Pollard, I think next door neighbour, who was 100% sure five years ago it was BS's van driving out of the bush but now not so sure.

 

[stormbird]

Mother charged with child stealing after allegedly going on the run with daughters - ABC News

It's equally possible that IF the woman in the 4WD that RC observed had taken William, she could be part of a network of people who help hide kids from authorities such as those implicated in the link below.

Interestingly one of the women charged with hiding a QLD mother and her kids was from Taree, and another, Newcastle.

Anyway, I'm not suggesting that I believe this has happened. It's just another scenario as to why a woman might get involved in something like this.

Three women charged late last week had "active roles" in the abduction of three children, the AFP said.

"Police will allege these people provided assistance to the group's organisers in providing transport, accommodation and other support to allow two mothers to evade law enforcement detection," the AFP said in a statement.

@Ms Kite

I agree, IMO it's certainly a possibility that William has been hidden by a network of people who think they're helping. It could have happened with William because it did happen in the case you've mentioned: a woman who took her twin daughters from Townsville and spent years living on the run. A Current Affair interviewed a few of the people who helped them:

(05:36) Jack: "I used to take them shopping every fortnight into town, yeah, walking through the shopping centre just like normal people."

The woman who is interviewed (saying she visited the children once a week) was charged with conspiracy to defeat justice.

- "Runaway mum", Chris Allen, A Current Affair, 07 June 2018, a video embedded in "'Your time to listen': Explosive police interview with mum accused of kidnapping daughters".

In relation to William's disappearance: I can't see what the motivation for "helpers" would be, not unless they were misled, or there's a custody claim by people we haven't been told about. But if someone had a reason to do it, and the means, and they chose to try their luck being on the run for the rest of their lives... Unless this scenario has been eliminated (and I don't see how it can have been if there actually is no evidence of what happened), IMO it's a possibility. There's even an old 4WD stored at Jack's place (see video at about 01:39 and 01:48). It's a Nissan Patrol, though, and white, and very rusty, so I'm guessing it's not likely to be the 4WD spotted by Mr Chapman in Kendall.

 

[Ms Kite]

I agree, IMO it's certainly a possibility that William has been hidden by a network of people who think they're helping. It could have happened with William because it did happen in the case you've mentioned: a woman who took her twin daughters from Townsville and spent years living on the run. A Current Affair interviewed a few of the people who helped them:

(05:36) Jack: "I used to take them shopping every fortnight into town, yeah, walking through the shopping centre just like normal people."

The woman who is interviewed (saying she visited the children once a week) was charged with conspiracy to defeat justice.

- "Runaway mum", Chris Allen, A Current Affair, 07 June 2018, a video embedded in "'Your time to listen': Explosive police interview with mum accused of kidnapping daughters".

In relation to William's disappearance: I can't see what the motivation for "helpers" would be, not unless they were misled, or there's a custody claim by people we haven't been told about. But if someone had a reason to do it, and the means, and they chose to try their luck being on the run for the rest of their lives... Unless this scenario has been eliminated (and I don't see how it can have been if there actually is no evidence of what happened), IMO it's a possibility. There's even an old 4WD stored at Jack's place (see video at about 01:39 and 01:48). It's a Nissan Patrol, though, and white, and very rusty, so I'm guessing it's not likely to be the 4WD spotted by Mr Chapman in Kendall.[/QUOTE]

That's all I'm saying...that I don't think it can be ruled out yet.

The same way I don't think we can rule out the involvement of any of the POIs that have been investigated.

I believe it's important to keep an open mind.

Assumptions on what's possible and what's not possible is what held up Daniel Morcombe's case.

 

[Ms Kite]

I agree, IMO it's certainly a possibility that William has been hidden by a network of people who think they're helping. It could have happened with William because it did happen in the case you've mentioned: a woman who took her twin daughters from Townsville and spent years living on the run. A Current Affair interviewed a few of the people who helped them:

(05:36) Jack: "I used to take them shopping every fortnight into town, yeah, walking through the shopping centre just like normal people."

The woman who is interviewed (saying she visited the children once a week) was charged with conspiracy to defeat justice.

- "Runaway mum", Chris Allen, A Current Affair, 07 June 2018, a video embedded in "'Your time to listen': Explosive police interview with mum accused of kidnapping daughters".

In relation to William's disappearance: I can't see what the motivation for "helpers" would be, not unless they were misled, or there's a custody claim by people we haven't been told about. But if someone had a reason to do it, and the means, and they chose to try their luck being on the run for the rest of their lives... Unless this scenario has been eliminated (and I don't see how it can have been if there actually is no evidence of what happened), IMO it's a possibility. There's even an old 4WD stored at Jack's place (see video at about 01:39 and 01:48). It's a Nissan Patrol, though, and white, and very rusty, so I'm guessing it's not likely to be the 4WD spotted by Mr Chapman in Kendall.

That's all I'm saying...that I don't think it can be ruled out yet.

The same way I don't think we can rule out the involvement of any of the POIs that have been investigated.

I believe it's important to keep an open mind.

Assumptions on what's possible and what's not possible is what held up Daniel Morcombe's case.[/QUOTE]
Sorry for messing up the quote in that post I don't know how to fix it.

 

[they'll get you]

Dean Pollard, I think next door neighbour, who was 100% sure five years ago it was BS's van driving out of the bush but now not so sure.

You'd think a neighbour who'd see the van entering and exiting a driveway a lot would recognise it.

 

[they'll get you]

That's all I'm saying...that I don't think it can be ruled out yet.

The same way I don't think we can rule out the involvement of any of the POIs that have been investigated.

I believe it's important to keep an open mind.

Assumptions on what's possible and what's not possible is what held up Daniel Morcombe's case.

Sorry for messing up the quote in that post I don't know how to fix it.[/QUOTE]

Don't apologize Mrs. K IMO you're gold to us with your sleuthing.

 

[sleepinoz]

You'd think a neighbour who'd see the van entering and exiting a driveway a lot would recognise it.

Makes you wonder why he changed his mind

 

[they'll get you]

Makes you wonder why he changed his mind

Ya can't get any more positive than 100%.

It sure does make you wonder.

 

[they'll get you]

 

[deugirtni]

You'd think a neighbour who'd see the van entering and exiting a driveway a lot would recognise it.

Makes you wonder why he changed his mind

Ya can't get any more positive than 100%.

It sure does make you wonder.

From memory, the man said there was no insignia on the van, but yet Spedding's van had his insignia on it at the time, which was pointed out by the coroner's counsel. (found the reference, posted below.)

In any case, BS's van was forensically examined, as were all of his vehicles and home and workplaces, perhaps even moreso than some other potential POIs in the case. The area in the bush was also searched, and there seems to be no shred of evidence linking him to William. He seems to have been excused from the inquest after giving testimony (unlike some others who have been told they may be recalled later), and it seems nobody had questions for him after his time on the stand (whereas the coroner had allocated much more time for his cross examination, and ended up being wasted court time apparently). His lawyer indicated that although evidence backing up BS's statement of his whereabouts had been available to police for years, they had not bothered to seek it out and he is now suing police. Although historical charges were brought forth, BS was acquitted in one location, while the charges were dropped in the other court on same charges, meaning there is no evidence of BS being a child sex predator. Media is now referring to BS as a 'previous' POI and/or a 'one-time' POI. Perhaps it is time to focus on other potential POIs.

Mr Pollard was shown an image of the van owned by Mr Spedding in 2014. The van had writing on the front of it.

"You said the van you saw coming out of the bush, that you thought was Bill Spedding's van, didn't have writing on the front," Mr Craddock said to Mr Pollard.

"Correct," Mr Pollard said.

"Then it couldn't have been Bill Spedding's van coming out of the bush," Mr Craddock said.
Spedding's van in bush evidence questioned
------
Defence lawyer Peter O'Brien was this month forced to gather the evidence that clearly ruled Mr Spedding out, despite it being available to police for years.
NoCookies | The Australian
-------
Police investigated the allegations and charged him with historical child sex offences, but all of them were dropped or dismissed because there was no evidence.

Mr Spedding has always denied these allegations and his legal team allege the charges were laid as part of a smear campaign to put pressure on him.
Washing machine repairman demanding $1 million over Tyrrell investigation

 

[SouthAussie]

He seems to have been excused from the inquest after giving testimony (unlike some others who have been told they may be recalled later) ........

Perhaps it is time to focus on other potential POIs.

"Now Mr Spedding and his wife have concluded their testimony and it's possible that that could be the end of his involvement in this investigation ... "
10 News First on Twitter (1:28 min mark in the embedded video)


It is also possible that he may be recalled. In the same manner that any of the witnesses may be recalled, or new witnesses added to the inquest list.

So until the Coroner has released her inquest findings - and perhaps even after, depending on what those findings are - discussion about Spedding and Margaret and any/all of the witnesses at the inquest is relevant to William's disappearance. imo

And now that he has decided to sue NSWPOL he will likely be in the media and discussed even more.

 

[JWSleuth]

From memory, the man said there was no insignia on the van, but yet Spedding's van had his insignia on it at the time, which was pointed out by the coroner's counsel. (found the reference, posted below.)

In any case, BS's van was forensically examined, as were all of his vehicles and home and workplaces, perhaps even moreso than some other potential POIs in the case. The area in the bush was also searched, and there seems to be no shred of evidence linking him to William. He seems to have been excused from the inquest after giving testimony (unlike some others who have been told they may be recalled later), and it seems nobody had questions for him after his time on the stand (whereas the coroner had allocated much more time for his cross examination, and ended up being wasted court time apparently). His lawyer indicated that although evidence backing up BS's statement of his whereabouts had been available to police for years, they had not bothered to seek it out and he is now suing police. Although historical charges were brought forth, BS was acquitted in one location, while the charges were dropped in the other court on same charges, meaning there is no evidence of BS being a child sex predator. Media is now referring to BS as a 'previous' POI and/or a 'one-time' POI. Perhaps it is time to focus on other potential POIs.

Mr Pollard was shown an image of the van owned by Mr Spedding in 2014. The van had writing on the front of it.

"You said the van you saw coming out of the bush, that you thought was Bill Spedding's van, didn't have writing on the front," Mr Craddock said to Mr Pollard.

"Correct," Mr Pollard said.

"Then it couldn't have been Bill Spedding's van coming out of the bush," Mr Craddock said.
Spedding's van in bush evidence questioned
------
Defence lawyer Peter O'Brien was this month forced to gather the evidence that clearly ruled Mr Spedding out, despite it being available to police for years.
NoCookies | The Australian
-------
Police investigated the allegations and charged him with historical child sex offences, but all of them were dropped or dismissed because there was no evidence.

Mr Spedding has always denied these allegations and his legal team allege the charges were laid as part of a smear campaign to put pressure on him.
Washing machine repairman demanding $1 million over Tyrrell investigation

-no link at all ? That's a strange call given he was contracted to a house a child had gone missing from? Even some family members agreed it was fair to look into him initially
- smear campaign ? this is just offensive IMO
- if BS had an airtight alibi I would agree with the above.
- given there's no forensic evidence does that mean no-one did it?

 

[Cleaver Greene]

Spedding is suing for malicious prosecution, malfeasance and abuse of process. The malicious prosecution can only relate to charges that Spedding was actually prosecuted for. I assume that he is claiming that he was prosecuted over the historic offences for an improper purpose, likely to justify the searches and remanding him in custody. The malfeasance and abuse of process could relate either to the Tyrrell investigation or the investigation and prosecution of historic cases. That is, using historical charges to be able to do things (like detain him for prolonged questioning, listening devices etc) that police could not do if he was just a POI. I don’t know whether that’s what happened; I’m just giving examples of what malfeasance/abuse of process could be in this scenario.

I can’t imagine a lawyer representing a client in a lawsuit like this unless they were cleared in the Tyrrell investigation. It would completely undermine his case if these proceedings were issued and he was then charged with involvement in the Tyrrell case.

If I was defending Spedding and he was still a POI, I would be sitting through the whole inquest to hear the evidence against the other POIs to use at trial. The fact that his lawyer withdrew from the inquest suggests that Spedding is no longer a POI. Peter O’Brien is a very competent lawyer. He would be giving VERY good advice to Spedding.

 

[Karo]

-no link at all ? That's a strange call given he was contracted to a house a child had gone missing from? Even some family members agreed it was fair to look into him initially
- smear campaign ? this is just offensive IMO
- if BS had an airtight alibi I would agree with the above.
- given there's no forensic evidence does that mean no-one did it?

Doesn't that just mean there has been no forensic evidence to connect anyone to William? It would seem that BS does have an airtight alibi.
It's going to be a long spring and Summer waiting for the inquest to resume.

 

[SouthAussie]

-no link at all ? That's a strange call given he was contracted to a house a child had gone missing from? Even some family members agreed it was fair to look into him initially
- smear campaign ? this is just offensive IMO
- if BS had an airtight alibi I would agree with the above.
- given there's no forensic evidence does that mean no-one did it?

Spedding:
"They are following their lines of enquiry as they are expected to do" 54 sec mark

(this video link works better than the one in this SMH link, but it is the same video)
Ten Eyewitness News
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...f-toddler-william-tyrell-20150123-12wpef.html

 

[SouthAussie]

Spedding is suing for malicious prosecution, malfeasance and abuse of process.

Yes, we are aware of that. Let's see how it goes, shall we. He himself stated that police were only doing their job, he himself stated that they were following expected lines of enquiry. The police stated - on video - that the media attention was unfair.

The prosecutor evidently found the evidence against Spedding sufficient to prosecute. We all know that historical charges are notoriously difficult to prosecute. Witnesses die, records are lost. But that does not mean we should not try to find justice for the victims, where possible. imo

If this lawsuit is allowed by the Supreme Court, I think the defence will be strong.

 

[SLouTh]

-no link at all ? That's a strange call given he was contracted to a house a child had gone missing from? Even some family members agreed it was fair to look into him initially
- smear campaign ? this is just offensive IMO
- if BS had an airtight alibi I would agree with the above.
- given there's no forensic evidence does that mean no-one did it?

Hi JWS,
Do you have a link for the family members saying it was fair to look into him? .... I have missed that along the way somewhere..., just interested to read it.....

 

[JWSleuth]

Doesn't that just mean there has been no forensic evidence to connect anyone to William? It would seem that BS does have an airtight alibi.
It's going to be a long spring and Summer waiting for the inquest to resume.

Sure is!

Really? Am I looking at different testimonies? IMO

I find it so strange that people consider this airtight, respectfully.

Again I'm not implying anything and I don't think BS is guilty. But... the alibi is very sketchy- I would not feel comfortable/safe if was mine. IMO.