Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #21

[Jan424]

I feel like they might have said in the videos that was their plan?

I'm not sure why Kam would be the one to shoot Bryer, except that I think he was the leader and saw Bryer as his soldier or mercenary (as I've said many times even before the report came out), so it could have been an ultimate power thing.

Or Bryer was just too much of a coward to do it himself.

 

[Jan424]

SBM

Perhaps because during their trek through the remaining 3 provinces they did not come across any other "pulled over / asleep at the side of the highway opportunities? As that is what appeared to be their MO

JMO

This is what I’ve been thinking.... that their preferred opportunity just didn’t present itself.

 

[Schmoosh]

I am born in New Brunswick, but grew up as an Army brat throughout Canada and Europe. Studying geology and geography at Mount Allison University I was 'somewhat' attuned to this but it certainly didn't come from my high school experience in the Canadian School system. I think all Canadians are aware of the fact that 90% of our population lives within that 100 mile zone of the US border; it's the rest of our great nation we don't know much about.

The God parents of one of my sons were posted to Churchill, Manitoba with the military and their stories of their time there, the terrain, their jaunts has led to the greatest of "my education" as it pertains to the locales involved here. That has all served to solidify that our First Nations and Indigenous persons are what made the 'solving' of this possible. They are one with their land - they know it, they live it and they love and respect it. I am thankful for Mr. Beardy. He is a hero in this and others get to sleep better through the night now because he has caused the 'outcome' and locations of these two to be finally determined.

Bears repeating. Two people very close to me worked in that area, one of whom was raised on the prairies with a stereotype of indigenous people from the local reserves. When as an adult he worked side-by-side with the Cree in Northern Manitoba he developed a deep and profound respect for their culture and admiration of their spirituality and belief in their oneness with the world. We have so much to learn from them.

 

[Pyecraft]

All this time, I have been so baffled by posters who really, sincerely believed that K and B were not the killers of Chynna and Lucas, but never did any of them say why this belief was so concrete. Would any care to share that now? This is a genuine , respectful enquiry, absolutely no sarcasm or snark in it.

This'd be a question asked in the same genuine, respectful, non-sarcastic, non-snarky spirit as your previously posted question of 'do we teach kids geography in our BC schools'?

The third victim here, Leonard Dyck certainly learned something from his BC schooling:
..... Len completed a Bachelors’ of Science degree in Marine Biology in 1978, then a Masters’ of Science in Botany in 1991 and finally completed his PhD in Botany in 2004. All of his studies were at UBC and he began working for the university as a sessional lecturer in 2003.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I was unable to watch today's presser and am still trying to catch up. Has the underlined text been posted?

Austin Grabish Retweeted
Tanya Fletcher ‏Verified account @CBCtanya 17h17 hours ago

BREAKING: The teens described their intent to turn around and go back to kill more people, said they expected to be dead in a week. They later explain that the harsh environment has left no escape, they felt cornered, detailing plans of suicide pact.

["Detailing plans ..." seems to imply more than just cremation]

Police would later find remnants of these items near the Dease Lake crime scene on July 22 and July 23. They also found a damaged SIM card belonging to McLeod and his Walmart employee ID card.

Austin Grabish (@AustinGrabish) | Twitter

 

[Schmoosh]

I was unable to watch today's presser and am still trying to catch up. Has the underlined text been posted?

Austin Grabish Retweeted
Tanya Fletcher ‏Verified account @CBCtanya 17h17 hours ago

BREAKING: The teens described their intent to turn around and go back to kill more people, said they expected to be dead in a week. They later explain that the harsh environment has left no escape, they felt cornered, detailing plans of suicide pact.

["Detailing plans ..." seems to imply more than just cremation]

Police would later find remnants of these items near the Dease Lake crime scene on July 22 and July 23. They also found a damaged SIM card belonging to McLeod and his Walmart employee ID card.

Austin Grabish (@AustinGrabish) | Twitter

Yes, it's all in the text of the presser and report.

If you can't watch the presser, you can read the presser statement here:
RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

and read the full report here:
RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

 

[Bluedaisy100]

I was unable to watch today's presser and am still trying to catch up. Has the underlined text been posted?

Austin Grabish Retweeted
Tanya Fletcher ‏Verified account @CBCtanya 17h17 hours ago

BREAKING: The teens described their intent to turn around and go back to kill more people, said they expected to be dead in a week. They later explain that the harsh environment has left no escape, they felt cornered, detailing plans of suicide pact.

["Detailing plans ..." seems to imply more than just cremation]

Police would later find remnants of these items near the Dease Lake crime scene on July 22 and July 23. They also found a damaged SIM card belonging to McLeod and his Walmart employee ID card.

Austin Grabish (@AustinGrabish) | Twitter

So they left major pieces of identification behind. Was this on purpose like a trail of breadcrumbs or just sloppy?

 

[Jan424]

I have said many times I was unsure whether this killing trip was entirely planned in advance or not.... Yet I always felt there had to have been SOME type of loose plan in mind regardless. Especially how soon the first murders took place once they hit the open road. I never felt they were at any time scared or confused after what they’d done or were about to do. Now I have zero doubt this was nothing more than a totally planned spree of thrill kills (even if it cannot be proved). No simple robbery gone bad, and they panicked, etc., whatever. But admittedly I am a little surprised at their absolute lack of remorse ( we’re not sorry, mom and dad, but here’s what we want done with our dead bodies), their bragging about the intention to take out more victims, their grandiosity and pomposity, and their encouragement to other potential, would-be killers. Those video tapes sound as though they are mocking everyone who views them. And, yea, these two were totally delusional. I don’t think I quite expected that.
The viciousness of the killings, especially what they must have done to Prof Dyck makes me nauseous. And the final insult to Dyck that they should record their asinine and dim witted commentary on HIS video camera. I suspected the RCMP had a great deal of evidence, and I’m glad at how much they were able to share. They are to be commended for a doing a thorough, excellent job with a very difficult, fast moving situation. I do have a couple questions.... any idea of who called the police suggesting Kam and Breyr could actually be involved? And any thoughts on their shaving comment.... heads, bodies? Just curious.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Maybe NJ or other psychological people can answer this: What was the dynamic between the 2 (most probably)? Leader and follower, equal partners. Folie a deux implies that one wouldn't have done it without the other. Wouldn't a psychopath pose a threat to another psychopath? Could it be a psychopath teams up with a sociopath (the less together, less organized one).

 

[JudgeJudi]

Yes, it's all in the text of the presser and report.

If you can't watch the presser, you can read the presser statement here:
RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

and read the full report here:
RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

Thanks. I have read both those docs but had forgotten about the SIM card. Did they mention anything else other than they wanted to be cremated re detailing their suicide plans?

 

[Shlock Homes]

I can't speak for those who believed K & B were not the killers, but after the live press conference, I did go back through some of the earlier threads to see if I could pick out some of the WSers who had exceptional foresight.

I noticed that some of those who did not believe K&B were the killers, are now gone. Their posts almost read like troll baiting.

There are also some who simply didn't see that there was enough evidence. These writers discounted, or even negated, the RCMP reports which said that there was significant evidence to show that K&B were the killers.

People come to this thread from all places on earth, and perhaps some members are writing from their experience or culture that rejects police reports. But, I am thankful when the RCMP said they had significant evidence, it wasn't a sham, nor a political or publicity stunt. It was solid.

I think that's really not fair to those of us who would actually like to see PROOF before going on a witch hunt. The evidence was very spotty and and unconvincing, and I still feel there is more questions than answers with this case. Do I believe they were SOLELY responsible for these crimes? No.

 

[LoisLane]

All this time, I have been so baffled by posters who really, sincerely believed that K and B were not the killers of Chynna and Lucas, but never did any of them say why this belief was so concrete. Would any care to share that now? This is a genuine , respectful enquiry, absolutely no sarcasm or snark in it.

DBM. Wasn’t finished..

 

[sprucetip]

Bears repeating. Two people very close to me worked in that area, one of whom was raised on the prairies with a stereotype of indigenous people from the local reserves. When as an adult he worked side-by-side with the Cree in Northern Manitoba he developed a deep and profound respect for their culture and admiration of their spirituality and belief in their oneness with the world. We have so much to learn from them.

Our whole country does, you’re right. I know someone like that as well, until she lived in an area with First Nation people, she had many preconceived notions.

The attitudes I see towards First Nation people across this country is horrifying. When you actually learn about the history - generations of trauma after colonization, you start to understand why some still struggle.

But the relationship they have to the land is pretty amazing and I personally have learned so much from my FN friends and neighbours. Ask about a far away trail I’m thinking of hiking and I’ve been told not only how to get there, but the whole history of it as well. How it was used generations ago, what the trail and area means, etc.

 

[Shlock Homes]

I'm still not 100% that they were solely responsible, if they were at all. We haven't actually seen the video, or a transcript of what they said, just a summary, so whether they really did admit to the prior killings is up for debate.
What I find strange with the current release is that if they had admitted committing crimes on 'camera' (before that, they were said to have recorded on a phone), why did it take more than a month to divulge that information? They already said they had looked at the footage recorded on a phone, you'd think they would have done it with the camera as well.
They're still being very vague about the tip that led them to believe BS & KM were respondible for LF & CD's murders. They even charged them in absentia with their murders, in order to do that, you need to have pretty good evidence. They're admitting now their main evidence is based on items found at BS & KM death scene?
Finally, the LD murder is a completely different m.o. from LF & CD's murder. It's not clear if there was any physical contact between the murderer(s) and LF & CD, but according to this new report, it sounds like LD was tortured. Bruising and burns sound to me more personal, like an interrogation, than a thrill kill just to steal the guy's vehicle.
At this point I cannot still cannot say with full certainty that BS & KM were personally involved, or solely involved, in all of the murders. Their behaviours after the fact didn't seem to point to two individuals who were on the run, trying to conceal a crime. They didn't wear hats or hoodies to hide their identities, which is how criminals usually behave. They willingly gave their names to a stranger out in the Saskatchewan. They didn't even commit more 'thrill kills' which is very strange, especially if they had so many more opportunities to do so. The evidence sounds very circumstantial, and it's hard to say if it would hold up in court. Unless a detailed transcript or clips of the video 'confessions' surface, it's hard to say how believable this evidence is. It sounds like something torn out of a TV show, wrapped up too conveniently for my tastes. But that is my honest opinion.
Correction: I thought that at the time they found the bodies, they said what kind of weapons were located. They didn't specify, they only said firearms. But now I'm seeing that the firearms were indeed rifles.

 

[LoisLane]

All this time, I have been so baffled by posters who really, sincerely believed that K and B were not the killers of Chynna and Lucas, but never did any of them say why this belief was so concrete. Would any care to share that now? This is a genuine , respectful enquiry, absolutely no sarcasm or snark in it.

I haven’t doubted that they did the killing but I had and maybe will still have suspicions that there could have been others involved. I also feel that there was some sort of indication that the suspects may have known LD or had a prior conversation with him at the very least. LD’s connection to Port Alberni didn’t slip by me (or others).

I think we live in strange times and since we are not allowed to discuss politics and other current events because it is written off as conspiracy theory then this isn’t the place to touch on that.

MOO
BAA

 

[Shlock Homes]

So they left major pieces of identification behind. Was this on purpose like a trail of breadcrumbs or just sloppy?

Apparently they were both careful and sloppy, only when it was convenient for creating a trail of evidence for LE to follow. They were also thrill killers who didn't want to kill anymore, just run into the bush. A lot of contradictions in explaining their behavior.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Maybe NJ or other psychological people can answer this: What was the dynamic between the 2 (most probably)? Leader and follower, equal partners. Folie a deux implies that one wouldn't have done it without the other. Wouldn't a psychopath pose a threat to another psychopath? Could it be a psychopath teams up with a sociopath (the less together, less organized one).

I've seen this first hand. What happens is that one person is so confident and has their delusions so completely worked out that they are able to convince the other person to share their delusion. They just become very, very convincing, and can convince somebody close to them to share their delusion.

In this case it is sounding like these two possibly considered themselves mercenaries of some sort. They may have considered themselves a couple of 'heroes' fighting against an unjust and oppressive society type of thing.

 

[sandbar]

I noticed that some of those who did not believe K&B were the killers, are now gone. Their posts almost read like troll baiting.

Hi, I was one of the posters who was calling for cooler heads before proclaiming K&B guilty on the circumstantial evidence that we had prior to the report.

I was not troll baiting.

I was pointing out that I personally needed more info to judge K&B guilty. I "knew" there was more to know and I was trying to make the point that until the investigative report came out any judgement would be based on curcumstantial evidence. I am concerned (and maybe I shouldn't be?) that what I was reading on WS was coming from people who are potentially jurors and I AM FRIGHTENED to think of those people being responsible for upholding justice.

Here, in a forum, where there is no cost to slowing down, no cost to being level-headed (and, I might add, a perfect place to practice) what I was reading, for the most part, sounded like vigilantes and madmen calling for blood.

I haven't read all the comments since the report and I have only read the report once. Maybe others, like me, prefer to compose a response to information after receiving and digesting it and not prior.

 

[Schmoosh]

Hi, I was one of the posters who was calling for cooler heads before proclaiming K&B guilty on the circumstantial evidence that we had prior to the report.

I was not troll baiting.

I was pointing out that I personally needed more info to judge K&B guilty. I "knew" there was more to know and I was trying to make the point that until the investigative report came out any judgement would be based on curcumstantial evidence. I am concerned (and maybe I shouldn't be?) that what I was reading on WS was coming from people who are potentially jurors and I AM FRIGHTENED to think of those people being responsible for upholding justice.

Here, in a forum, where there is no cost to slowing down, no cost to being level-headed (and, I might add, a perfect place to practice) what I was reading, for the most part, sounded like vigilantes and madmen calling for blood.

I haven't read all the comments since the report and I have only read the report once. Maybe others, like me, prefer to compose a response to information after receiving and digesting it and not prior.

Great post.

 

[Shlock Homes]

Well, apparently sleep is not happening for me tonight, so 4 AM insomnia post it is. Some random quotes from articles. I think the journalists got more information in their briefing.

RCMP say subjects of nationwide manhunt confessed to killing three people, planned to kill more | The Star

"The RCMP are still waiting on a coroner’s report for the exact date of death."

That's weird since it's been seven weeks but ok, I guess...(and if so that means toxicology didn't come out either).

"According to police documents, officials have “no indication” that Schmegelsky and McLeod belonged to any white supremacist groups."

Dead assailants recorded videos taking responsibility for three B.C. murders

"Deese and Fowler died of multiple gunshot wounds, with some appearing to have come from behind. There was no evidence of sexual assault."

Well, at least there's that...and as I said before, I think it would have been pretty messed up if there was evidence of sexual assault and the RCMP never said anything to warn the public while these guys were on the loose.

"On July 22, a witness who knew Schmegelsky and McLeod came forward to tell police he “believed the boys may have been involved in the murders.”"

So the witness was male. Who wants to bet it was one of their three other close friends Bryer's dad mentioned?

Also re-read the report and:
"On July 20, 2019, the Port Alberni RCMP conducted interviews with the McLeod and Schmegelsky families, who described them as good kids who were on a trip to northern British Columbia and Yukon to look for work. Furthermore, the family stated they sent photos of their trip via texts and shared that they had vehicle troubles. Their last contact with family was on July 17, 2019."

Not only did Bryer give his dad incorrect information about where they were going, but didn't contact him after that even though apparently they had at least one working phone and contacted other family members. I think Bryer had a lot of resentment about his dad's book that was supposed to come out July 22nd, and the timing of the trip wasn't coincidental.

I wonder what photos they sent...expect to see those on the Fifth Estate in a year....

Also what's with the trail of completely random items over a 50km radius around the Dease Lake scene? Any ideas?

Thank you for the Star article. I was hoping at least one news outlet would have more details on their 'confession', but it's implied, rather than directly detailed. If they actually did confess, wouldn't it be easy for the police to say 'they gave out detailed information that only someone at the crime scene would have known'? Like all prior released evidence linking BS & KM to the crimes, specifically to the murder of LF and CD, it's another vague release by them.
The rifle thing is interesting though. Why would they need a rifle to commit crimes if they were already carrying hand gun(s)? What happened to the said rifle? The police never actually said what type of shots killed LF, CD, or LD. Couldn't they have determined a hand gun versus a rifle in those cases? They've only said many weeks later now that the handgun(s) found with BS & KM were the same used in those prior crimes.