IN - Couple charged with abandonment of adopted child after legally changing her age, Sept 2019

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Tugela said:
It is probably pretty easy if you have one of the more extreme forms. Dwarfism itself distorts the body, so what we consider normal in a child or adult would look different in them. When they are younger they could pass as a child pretty easily I would think. Most normal women show distinct changes in their early to mid twenties which corresponds to a metabolic slowdown at that time. They start to show clear signs of age as a result even if they are youthful looking. It can vary from more subtle signs to dramatic changes, depending on their body type. There was a neighbor that went to school with me, in the last years of high school she looked young and girlish, but within five years she was huge and looked a LOT older.

If they had psychological issues they may not be acting in the same way a normal child would act as well. Their behavior might appear immature and childish, and if they were in what appeared to be a child's body you would equate that as being a child, even though they may be an adult. So it would be pretty easy for someone to pull that off. Not a scam so much as them being who they are, with other people's expectations and bias filling in the rest. If being a child was this girl's life, then that is what she would be. It would seem quite normal to her, but not to other people, because that would be all she knows.
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She has a specific form of dwarfism that the Little Couple has. It does not affect how the face ages. That’s been discussed on here. Her specific form of dwarfism has been reported.

There is no condition I’m aware of that causes a 20 year old with a flat chest to grow breasts 8 years later and have a radically altered face shape.

But if some find the face of this person in the red shirt as the same as the ones presented by the people who have her now, (shape and skin), we are far too apart to come to any sort of meeting of the minds.

I have never seen a 20 year old with that particular pointed/curved chin shape that is easily recognizable as a child’s, IMO.

And BTW, my family and I all look vastly younger than our ages. At 18 I was definitely baby-faced. That lasted until my late 20’s at least. (Like Ralph Macchio that someone posted). But the particular shape Natalia had in early photos is not something I’ve seen any adult have. Regardless as to how young they look.
 
gitana1 said:
That’s exactly what the quote says. That they set her up in an apartment in July 2013. I’m not sure how much clearer that can get.

Kids from Eastern European orphanages often have severe behavioral issues. That’s not at all unusual. So it’s not unusual that there would be a failed adoption or failed placements.

Of course I’ve wondered why the judge was convinced she was an adult. A letter like the one provided by the doctor coupled with Kristine’s Barrett’s dogged insistence and stellar acting would likely be enough for some judges. Why would a parent lie about something like that?

But the letter Kristine proudly submitted to “prove” the child was actually an adult - her evidence- is biased, unprofessional and suspect, for the several reasons many of us have explained on here.

The facts are also that:

1. Dad admitted to knowing the child was a minor when they left her there.
3. The Mans have had her since 2013. (And do not believe she’s a 28 year old woman).
4. Two separate bone scans by independent doctors (not friends of the Barrett’s) at hospitals two years apart both indicated approximate ages close to what the supposed birth mom claims.
5. Her form of dwarfism causes small stature but not a youthful facial appearance.
6. She had a totally flat chest in photos when originally with the Barrett’s. She no longer does. She would have been 20 in those early photos if the Barretts were telling the truth about her age. No one magically forward breasts after age 20.
7. After a five year investigation (so not spur of the moment and not haphazard), the Barrett’s we’re charged with abandoning her. Have you ever considered why?
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In something like that it would have taken more than a letter, the judge would have appointed someone to investigate the claims.

If the new family has bought into what they believe her age is, they are going to have blinders on when it comes to that. Remember, they did try to get her birth year changed back to 2003, but abandoned that when challenged by the previous family. Why? The obvious conclusion is that they knew they would not be able to prove it. They wanted her birth year to be 2003, because then they could adopt her and become her legal guardian, it suited their purpose. With the other birth date she was just a woman who lived with them. So they have some incentive to hold that position.

I doubt the dad would have actually admitted that, that would be a free ticket to jail. What is more likely is he said he didn't know and they rephrased that to suit their own ends.

Since the family were doing these bone scans almost immediately on adopting her, they clearly very quickly came to doubt her age. Why would they do that unless they had good reason? It is not as though they did not know she was a dwarf and/or had other issues. In any case, these bone density scans are supposed to be for normal children, the results do not necessarily extrapolate to someone with abnormal skeletal development. At least I don't see why anyone would think they would.

Have you ever met any dwarfs in their teens/early twenties? They can easily pass for being much younger than they are, especially if they dress that way. Once they get to about 30 or so then signs of aging make it clear they are not children.

Only one of those photos shows any signs of breasts as far as I can tell. Wearing or not wearing a bra can have a huge effect on your appearance. Your weight also has an effect. That one photo also shows her as carrying quite a bit more weight as well, that and wearing a bra could easily explain it. I don't find the photos at all convincing for your argument. I can say this as fact because I happen to know a woman who has significant breasts, but you would never think so based on the way she dresses (well, until she had her daughter, then they got really big).

If it was a clear abandonment it would take 5 days to lay charges, not 5 years. Clearly the evidence for her age is not that strong, even for law enforcement. That is why they have taken so long. My guess is that there is a statute of limitations thing coming up and they have to do something now or give it up.
 
gitana1 said:
I don’t know. According to the reports she was told to tell people she was 22 when they left her.
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From the book reviews it sounded like Kristine wanted people to think she was a saint. She practically cured questionable autism. Maybe Natalia had real issues that couldn't be lied about. IDK
 
gitana1 said:
She has a specific form of dwarfism that the Little Couple has. It does not affect how the face ages. That’s been discussed on here. Her specific form of dwarfism has been reported.

There is no condition I’m aware of that causes a 20 year old with a flat chest to grow breasts 8 years later and have a radically altered face shape.

But if some find the face of this person in the red shirt as the same as the ones presented by the people who have her now, (shape and skin), we are far too apart to come to any sort of meeting of the minds.

I have never seen a 20 year old with that particular pointed/curved chin shape that is easily recognizable as a child’s, IMO.

And BTW, my family and I all look vastly younger than our ages. At 18 I was definitely baby-faced. That lasted until my late 20’s at least. (Like Ralph Macchio that someone posted). But the particular shape Natalia had in early photos is not something I’ve seen any adult have. Regardless as to how young they look.
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When I was in my mid to late 20s, up to my early 30s, I was routinely mistaken for a kid, so with all due respect, you are wrong. Skinny and small, with a young face. It was very annoying and a huge problem when it came to trying to establish relationships with the opposite sex. There is very little interest when you look like that. If I had been a dwarf then they would have thought I was even younger, I can't imaging how much more difficult things would have been then.
 
Indy_ar said:
I agree that there is no proof that she was alone for a long period of time. There were comments in one of the original articles from the family that took her that seem to indicate otherwise. I think that the facts are more solid indicating that she is the age her birth mother indicates.
First, there appears to be a birth certificate (dailymail saw it) that corroborates her age.
Second, there were two independent doctors in 2010 and 2012 that using bone density and cranial development assessed her age to be young (cranial development is what is used by forensic doctors to estimate the age of young kids remains)
Third, the pictures appear to show the development from childhood to teenage years.

I must add that when I moved here to the USA, my 5 year old daughter didn't speak any English. She learned it during kindergarten. By the time she was in first grade, you could not guess that English was not her primary language. I also need to note that I have met friends that immigrated here as well and since they don't practice their native language with their kids, the kids have completely forgotten it.
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No they didn't. They saw an admission record at the orphanage. And how do we know that it wasn't faked to cover something up? They did not allow the reporters to make a copy of it. Could be there is a reason for that, and it is not confidentiality, after all they did show the document to the reporters so they are not worried about confidentiality. A copy allows questions to be asked about authenticity.

Bone density measurements as applied to children as opposed to adults. But, are dwarfs the same? Do they follow the same rules?

The cranial development in a forensic setting refers to fusion of the skull bones, but I think you need the actual skull to make that determination. She probably still needs that, so I doubt they removed it.

The pictures all look the same to me. Just different settings/clothes/lighting.
 
Tugela said:
The mother may be whacky but there is no reason to doubt the kid.
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If she was diagnosing him or the main source for the diagnosis that might mean he isn't autistic. Doctors rely on parents reporting their children's behavior or changes in behavior when they are dealing with toddlers or young kids who can't articulate exactly what is going on with them.
 
gitana1 said:
She’s told very compelling stories previous to this. How she single-handedly cured her son of autism through her tireless devotion, never sleeping while providing her severely disabled son with constant intervention/therapy/care, keeping vigil on her younger son who she claimed had some life threatening illness, opening some sort of center for boys with autism and running an in-home daycare.

She sounds like a liar to me. But she was so compelling with her heroic tale of curing her boy genius she was on tv numerous times. Tons of interviews. A book. Etc.

So homeland security is investigating Natalia but in the meantime other LE stupidly decide to charge her parents after investigating for five years?
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You can't "cure" autism, it is not a disease. It is just development that has gone down a different path, such as being very short or very tall, so the people on the spectrum are different from others. Those differences may make it difficult to fit into the general world (sometimes to an extreme extent), but there is nothing wrong as such with those on the spectrum. What you CAN do with autism is create an environment that helps those on the spectrum to adapt to the world on their own terms in a constructive way.
 
Tugela said:
You can't "cure" autism, it is not a disease. It is just development that has gone down a different path, such as being very short or very tall, so the people on the spectrum are different from others. Those differences may make it difficult to fit into the general world (sometimes to an extreme extent), but there is nothing wrong as such with those on the spectrum. What you CAN do with autism is create an environment that helps those on the spectrum to adapt to the world on their own terms in a constructive way.
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Remember she is profiting off of her son having autism. I think there are some amazing parents out there and I have trouble believing she is one. MOO
 
cherrymeg said:
If she was diagnosing him or the main source for the diagnosis that might mean he isn't autistic. Doctors rely on parents reporting their children's behavior or changes in behavior when they are dealing with toddlers or young kids who can't articulate exactly what is going on with them.
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They don't normally diagnose kids that young. Unless there is something super obvious (which is self evident) they would wait for some later stage of development. Her son has Asperger's, which is a mild form of autism. I have no doubt that she is exaggerating the seriousness of it, but he probably does have it based on the descriptions of his behavior. He is not a child any more, his condition would not require her say so to be evident to people around him. The visible effects of Asperger's become more muted as you grow older and more experienced in life, but they can't be created in a normal person. It doesn't work that way.
 
I review medical records for a living. This letter from a "doctor" is strangely written and unprofessional. I read LOT of letters from providers, sometimes rather angry letters, but still obviously written by a health care professional. That letter would raise all kinds of red flags to me.

Has any genetic testing been done? Labs? Precocious puberty, as someone mentioned above, could be a factor here, BUT criteria for hormonal treatment is based on- age. This one is a real.puzzle!
 
Tugela said:
No they didn't. They saw an admission record at the orphanage. And how do we know that it wasn't faked to cover something up? They did not allow the reporters to make a copy of it. Could be there is a reason for that, and it is not confidentiality, after all they did show the document to the reporters so they are not worried about confidentiality. A copy allows questions to be asked about authenticity.

Bone density measurements as applied to children as opposed to adults. But, are dwarfs the same? Do they follow the same rules?

The cranial development in a forensic setting refers to fusion of the skull bones, but I think you need the actual skull to make that determination. She probably still needs that, so I doubt they removed it.

The pictures all look the same to me. Just different settings/clothes/lighting.
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No, you don't need the actual skull to see how have the bones fused.

"Ultrasound can be used (Ultrasound examination of the head is used by pediatric neurosurgeons and pediatricians to perform intracranial assessment.15–17 ) "
 
Docs: Ind. couple abandoned adopted daughter

“Court documents detail medical records from Peyton Manning Children's Hospital, which show the child was examined on June 3, 2010 and she was estimated to be approximately 8 years old. Later medical records from 2012 also show that the child had a skeletal survey completed at Peyton Manning Children's Hospital which estimated her age to be approximately 11 years old at the time.

Michael told detectives that his wife had told the child to tell others that she "looks young" but was actually 22, according to court documents, although he admitted to knowing the medical records said she was a minor and he believed she was when they abandoned her in 2013.”

Fake news? Hardly.
 
TaylorJ4 said:
I review medical records for a living. This letter from a "doctor" is strangely written and unprofessional. I read LOT of letters from providers, sometimes rather angry letters, but still obviously written by a health care professional. That letter would raise all kinds of red flags to me.

Has any genetic testing been done? Labs? Precocious puberty, as someone mentioned above, could be a factor here, BUT criteria for hormonal treatment is based on- age. This one is a real.puzzle!
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And that is not official IU Health stationery.

And I need to back track. Is it mentioned whether she had the Spondyloepiphyseal Dysplasia, Congenital Type or was it Tarda?
 
squareandrabbet said:
You mean, like wholly unaccented and perfectly colloquial Mila Kunis, who emigrated from the Ukraine at age 7 (BBM)?

https://www.biography.com/actor/mila-kunis



If Natalia had had Russian speakers to practice with in the U.S. also, she might not have forgotten her Russian. Nothing that I've read so far indicated that she did get that chance.



BBM, what's convincing about this alleged detective's invoking the government? That all sounds rather silly to me. Homeland Security is allegedly worried about a girl who's been in the United States for a dozen years, has no money to go anywhere or do anything - are we supposed to believe "Homeland Security" is on her trail because it thinks Natalia is, what, a spy?

Willing to admit I'm no student of government, thus happy to be corrected on the purpose of DHS in this country; but still, I don't find any of that rings true. It rather more sounds to me like Kristine should switch to writing novels; and in the interest of practicality, we know she wouldn't be the first "nonfiction" writer to get called out for embroidery, embellishing, or just plain making things up (James Frey, Augusten Burroughs, Rigoberta Menchu, others linked below)?

Five Big Fat Literary Fakes

IMO, MOO, but I find the inclusion of the DHS in KB's story to be laughable. Aim lower than a shadowy conspiracy topped off with invocation of the federal government, lady! SMH...
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You know, every time she said "Department of Homeland Security ", I wondered if she was just seeing DHS, DSHS, or whatever acronym might be used from the health agency investigating, and just ASSUMED, it was Homeland Security. Because that's just the kind of thing a delusional narcissist would do. MOO.
 
GoneGoldfishin' said:
You know, every time she said "Department of Homeland Security ", I wondered if she was just seeing DHS, DSHS, or whatever acronym might be used from the health agency investigating, and just ASSUMED, it was Homeland Security. Because that's just the kind of thing a delusional narcissist would do. MOO.
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Omg that makes sense lol.
 
Medstudies said:
And that is not official IU Health stationery.

And I need to back track. Is it mentioned whether she had the Spondyloepiphyseal Dysplasia, Congenital Type or was it Tarda?
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Since Tarda type is x linked, it would be extremely unusual for a female to present with symptoms vs. just being a carrier, so I would guess she has Congenita type. MOO.
ETA: Further reading suggests Tarda type also would only affect spine growth, not limbs, which further indicates she has Congenita type.
Spondyloepiphyseal Dysplasia Tarda - NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders)
 
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