Does the flu shot really work?

[tarabull]

Vaccine delays, shortages possible across Canada as flu season approaches
October 2 2019

 

[Curious Me]

If you got the shot a week ago and only just now have developed hives, there’s a good chance it’s not the flu shot that is causing the hives.

I'm sure it was a reaction to the flu shot. Do an internet search on the subject. In general, they say we don't build up an immunity for up to a month after getting the shot.

 

[Curious Me]

If you got the shot a week ago and only just now have developed hives, there’s a good chance it’s not the flu shot that is causing the hives.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I want to let others know hives can be a common reaction to the flu shot. This is from my doctor's office, in reply, after I notified them of the reaction I had.

"...I am sorry that you had this reaction to the flu shot. This kind of reaction to the flu shot is common. Please continue taking the Benadryl at night (please do not drive or operate any heavy machinery after taking), and you can also try Hydrocortisone cream over the area as well as cool compresses to help with the swelling and itching. If your symptoms are persisting or getting worse, please call the Appointment Center..."

Thankfully, they're gone!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Curious Me, could you be allergic to eggs? There have been allergic reactions to flu shots that might contain egg-related substance (protein). I'm not allergic to eggs but do have a minor allergy to wheat (extracts) that can also be found in some flu vaccines.

 

[Curious Me]

Curious Me, could you be allergic to eggs? There have been allergic reactions to flu shots that might contain egg-related substance (protein). I'm not allergic to eggs but do have a minor allergy to wheat (extracts) that can also be found in some flu vaccines.

Good question. No problem with eggs. I do have some reactions to latex gloves and elastics. I was told not to worry about the shot containing any latex. This is the first year I had a skin reaction.

BetteDavisEyes, you're smart to be aware of what might personally trigger reactions.

I still think it's a good idea to get a flu shot.

 

[mynoyb]

Has anyone ever gotten a flu shot and still contracted the flu?

My daughter, 2x when she was a baby. Never had another shot and has never had the flu in 12 years.

Edited to add I'm not anti vax. My daughter has had all recommended vaccinations except for flu.

 

[mynoyb]

I've never had a flu shot and the last time I remember having the flu was 1987. My husband has not had a flu shot since I've known him (20 years) and he's had the flu once.

I believe eating healthy (including cutting out/down on sugar and artificial dyes and preservatives), keeping our immune systems strong and good hygiene have been the reasons we are able to keep the flu at bay.

 

[mynoyb]

Deleted...double post.

 

[mickey2942]

Flu shot last week at Costco, for free. Husband got his at the VA.

The more people who get a flu shot, the less likely the flu will become an epidemic. Herd immunity. I will never miss a flu shot, the flu I caught 20 years ago, debilitated me for months. Never again.

 

[mynoyb]

Flu shot last week at Costco, for free. Husband got his at the VA.

The more people who get a flu shot, the less likely the flu will become an epidemic. Herd immunity. I will never miss a flu shot, the flu I caught 20 years ago, debilitated me for months. Never again.

In a 2014 analysis in the Oregon Law Review by New York University (NYU) legal scholars Mary Holland and Chase E. Zachary (who also has a Princeton-conferred doctorate in chemistry), the authors show that 60 years of compulsory vaccine policies “have not attained herd immunity for any childhood disease.”

 

[mickey2942]

In a 2014 analysis in the Oregon Law Review by New York University (NYU) legal scholars Mary Holland and Chase E. Zachary (who also has a Princeton-conferred doctorate in chemistry), the authors show that 60 years of compulsory vaccine policies “have not attained herd immunity for any childhood disease.”

But has it potentially stopped diseases from being an epidemic?

 

[ZaZara]

In a 2014 analysis in the Oregon Law Review by New York University (NYU) legal scholars Mary Holland and Chase E. Zachary (who also has a Princeton-conferred doctorate in chemistry), the authors show that 60 years of compulsory vaccine policies “have not attained herd immunity for any childhood disease.”

Mary Holland is an anti-vaxxer advocate who also defends Andrew Wakefield, comparing him to Nelson Mandela and Vaclav Havel to name a few.

 

[Nadi]

In a 2014 analysis in the Oregon Law Review by New York University (NYU) legal scholars Mary Holland and Chase E. Zachary (who also has a Princeton-conferred doctorate in chemistry), the authors show that 60 years of compulsory vaccine policies “have not attained herd immunity for any childhood disease.”

I see a few problems with that article, first the site itself, Vaccine Safety Council of Minnesota. The name itself misleadingly implies some sort of official status but in actuality I could go register a website today, call it the Vaccine Safety Council of Ontario and put up any articles I choose. They can publish absolutely anything they want on the site and there is nothing that requires it to be true . Second its not a medical study its an opinion piece. Just because the authors published that they came to that conclusion doesn't make it true. Neither author is a doctor or related professional. They are lawyers. Neither face the same consequences a doctor etc could for publishing a medical study/article. When my mothers doctor and cardiologist strongly advise her to get the flu shot or when my doctor advises me to get the flu shot I will take their advice every time over anything I read online. Not only do they have a vested interest in keeping their patients alive, their advice is actually a MEDICAL opinion and they have to actually stand behind the advice they give or face some pretty serious consequences.

All imo.

 

[Curious Me]

Flu Shot Seekers ‘Chase After’ Senior Dose During Shortage

GLENDALE, Colo. (CBS4) – "Health departments report a distribution issue and a delay in the production and supply of the senior dose of the flu shot this week as experts say the public should receive the vaccine by the end of October."

Flu Shot Seekers ‘Chase After’ Senior Dose During Shortage

 

[gitana1]

It's interesting that most anti-vaxxers are anti "big pharma" and allude to big pharma having a financial interest in scamming people etc however almost all of the "doctors", specialists, websites etc involved in the anti vaxx movement have a huge vested interest in promoting anti-vaxx. Without fail the websites promoting anti-vaxx have a shop section. Everything from books, to immune boosting supplements to natural organic Vaccine alternatives. None of them are actual researchers or have any credible, substantiated science to back their claims and many of them have actually been discredited. Yet people choose to ignore that. I'm constantly baffled why people will ignore the advice from their family physician/pediatrician in favour of people/websites who have no relevant medical background who actually have much to gain financially from promoting anti-vcxx.

Wow. I never realized they’re promoting stuff on those sites. Interesting. And seedy.

 

[gitana1]

Because it's heavily marketed to practically everyone even though it's marginally effective and indicated for only a relatively small percentage of the population who are more likely to die from flu if they contract it. And even then, the CDC reports that the shot isn't really very effective in the elderly -- who make up the VAST proportion of the 79,400 who died from the flu -- 86% per the table linked.

Anywho, I'm pretty sure no one's consulting the Websleuths public polls forum to determine whether they should get a flu shot -- so I'm not super concerned about expressing my "dangerous" (in your opinion) opinion

“Marketed”? Health insurance companies give them out for free. They actually push them on us and they're the ones who pay for them. But they’re no cost to us. You know why? Because if enough people get them the rates of serious illnesses from flu viruses decreases substantially so less cost to the company.

Please link to a reputable cite that it’s indicated for a relatively small percentage of the population? Have you read about herd immunity?

I’ve explained how flu shots can be effective even in the long run despite faulty predictions at times when compiling the vaccine each season.

There is a reason both health insurance companies and the majority of the world’s doctors heavily promote vaccines. And it’s not some mythical kick back. It’s science.

Yes, the shots aren’t as effective for the elderly due to their immune systems but they can get higher dose shots which help and if the rest of us younger folk get the shots that helps them and others like small children and people with weakened immune systems to avoid the virus.

“Older people with weaker immune systems often have a lower protective immune response after flu vaccination compared to younger, healthier people. This can make them more susceptible to the flu. Although immune responses may be lower in the elderly, vaccine effectiveness has been similar in most flu seasons among older adults and those with chronic health conditions compared to younger, healthy adults. Despite the fact that older adults have weaker immune responses to vaccine flu vaccines, there are many reasons why people in that age group should be vaccinated each year.”
People 65 Years and Older & Influenza | CDC

Also, I’m not sure what math is used to determine that an overall 67% efficacy rate on average for the flue vaccine, 70% efficacy rate for healthy adults who get the shot and an overall rate of 66% for healthy kids ages 2-6, is “marginal” efficacy.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(11)70295-X/fulltext

And that’s combining two types of vaccines over various years when some forms are more effective and some years are better predictors. Moderately successful? Yes. Marginally? Not close.

Finally, it’s the volume of misinformed comments like yours that are insidious and have an impact on society. The anti-vaccination trope spread precisely due to the repetition of such mis-information.

I’d wear a seatbelt if it helped 67% of the time. It doesn’t make sense not to. Especially if it’s free to me.

 

[gitana1]

I do believe the flu shots work. I've gotten one faithfully for seven years or more in a row with just mild reactions.

I got my flu shot a week ago this year. I now have HIVES. Apparently, this happens to quite a few people and some say they have hives for months after. No, please! I just took two Benadryl.

Has this happened to any of you?

No. Allergic reactions typically happen to a substance immediately. Delayed reactions are typically 2-6 hours. Not a week.

That’s pretty impossible. But it’s the kind of thing people use to make connections that aren’t based on science. I’d ask my doctor.

Funny story- I recently was prescribed a bunch of new medications. One night I noticed hives everywhere shortly after taking them. Then I felt like I couldn’t swallow. I called 911. The firefighters came. Pulled up my shirt. Laughed and said, “No. if it was a real allergic reaction causing you jot to breathe you would not be talking right now. And those aren’t hives.”

So embarrassing. The “hives” caused me to panic and feel like I couldn’t swallow/breathe. But they weren’t hives. They were mosquito bites. In all my years I’ve never been bitten. Now we have a new strain of mosquitoes that destroys EVERYONE and repeatedly bites the same person over and over! Ha ha!

But I am allergic to mucinex. And it does cause hives. Within about 5-20 minutes.

Hives can be a sign of something dangerous because whatever caused them could cause a worse reaction later on. Allergic reactions can worsen over time.

It could also be stress.

 

[gitana1]

How would any of us know if it worked? The number of people who die from the flu are never looked at in terms of how many were vaccinated and how many were not, because they will not release that info. We used to think it was good to get the flu / get over it that maybe that strain ,a part of the strain, or similar one ,might return some years later and you would have some immunity to it. We have since reversed that thinking but I would still like to see the numbers in direct context with vaccinations and flu deaths. I do think the problem is some of the questions are not really pro or anti vax but just questions about hidden data

The number of people who die from the flu are indeed looked at in terms of who was vaccinated. There have been numerous studies. But that’s only part of the equation. Because if someone elderly gets a regular flu shot and dies from the flu that doesn’t tell the whole story of efficacy.

And my doctor continues to tell me that flu vaccines each year build my immune system library. Can you link to something showing that’s wrong? I’ve read there are indications that immunity wanes after a year but nothing to suggest it disappears entirely.

To me it’s a really strange debate. It’s as if we are risking something by taking the shot so we only want to take if it has a guaranteed effectiveness rate.

The flu shot isn’t dangerous. It’s isn’t risky. It doesn’t cause hives a whole week later. Why wouldn’t we hedge our bets?:

Flu shot myths
Every year people refuse to get their flu shots because they believe false information they have encountered. Every year we have to repeat our efforts to debunk that false information and provide accurate information. We feel like Sisyphus: we roll that rock up the hill every year, and every year it rolls right back down.

Science journalist Tara Haelle has compiled the most comprehensive list of flu shot myths I’ve come across. On her website, she provides answers to the myths and links to her sources. I encourage you to go there. As a preview, here is her list:

• Myth #1: The flu vaccine gives you the flu or makes you sick.
• Myth #2: Flu vaccines contains dangerous ingredients, such as mercury, formaldehyde and antifreeze.
• Myth #3: Pregnant women should not get the flu shot. / The flu shot can cause miscarriages. / Pregnant women should only get the preservative-free flu shot.
• Myth #4: Flu vaccines can cause Alzheimer’s disease.
• Myth #5: Flu vaccines provide billions of dollars in profits for pharmaceutical companies.
• Myth #6: Flu vaccines don’t work.
• Myth #7: Flu vaccines don’t work for children.
• Myth #8: Flu vaccines make it easier for people to catch pneumonia or other infectious diseases.
• Myth #9: Flu vaccines cause vascular or cardiovascular disorders.
• Myth #10: Flu vaccines can break the “blood brain barrier” of young children and hurt their development.
• Myth #11: Flu vaccines cause narcolepsy.
• Myth #12: The flu vaccine weakens your body’s immune response.
• Myth #13: The flu vaccine causes nerve disorders such as Guillain-Barré syndrome.
• Myth #14: The flu vaccine can cause neurological disorders.
• Myth #15: Influenza isn’t that bad. Or, people recover quickly from it.
• Myth #16: People don’t die from the flu unless they have another underlying condition already.
• Myth #17: People with egg allergies cannot get the flu shot. It will kill them!
• Myth #18: If I get the flu, antibiotics will take care of me.
• Myth #19: The flu shot doesn’t work for me, personally, because last time I got it, I got the flu anyway.
• Myth #20: I never get the flu, so I don’t need the shot.
• Myth #21: I can protect myself from the flu by eating right and washing my hands regularly.
• Myth #22: It’s okay if I get the flu because it will make my immune system stronger.
• Myth #23: Making a new vaccine each year only makes influenza strains stronger.
• Myth #24: The side effects of the flu shot are worse than the flu.
• Myth #25: The flu vaccine causes Bell’s palsy.

No immunization is 100% effective, and flu shots are less effective than immunizations for many other diseases, like measles. By one estimate, 33 to 100 healthy adults have to be vaccinated to prevent one case of influenza symptoms. But that one case might be you. It’s like insurance. How many houses have to be insured against fire for one house to burn and get a payout? Does anyone say, “I don’t need insurance because I’ve never had a fire”?

Flu shots have been given to millions of people; they are remarkably safe, and far safer than catching the disease. The disease can kill; the shots are not known to have ever killed anyone (deaths after vaccination have been reported, but no causal link to the vaccine has been found).
Flu Shots: Here We Go Again!

 

[gitana1]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I want to let others know hives can be a common reaction to the flu shot. This is from my doctor's office, in reply, after I notified them of the reaction I had.

"...I am sorry that you had this reaction to the flu shot. This kind of reaction to the flu shot is common. Please continue taking the Benadryl at night (please do not drive or operate any heavy machinery after taking), and you can also try Hydrocortisone cream over the area as well as cool compresses to help with the swelling and itching. If your symptoms are persisting or getting worse, please call the Appointment Center..."

Thankfully, they're gone!

Not a week later. Misconceptions about Flu Vaccines

 

[gitana1]

I've never had a flu shot and the last time I remember having the flu was 1987. My husband has not had a flu shot since I've known him (20 years) and he's had the flu once.

I believe eating healthy (including cutting out/down on sugar and artificial dyes and preservatives), keeping our immune systems strong and good hygiene have been the reasons we are able to keep the flu at bay.

That’s an anti-vaxxer myth.