TX - James, 48 & Michelle Butler, 46, driving RV to Fort Lauderdale from Corpus Christi, 14 Oct 2019

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Recent post: Daughter-in-law CR from FB. Nothing confirmed yet. :( and :(

"Our family has had no answers yet. As for the police figuring it out.. it’s a process. We have been sitting on the edge of our seats jumping to our phone every time it rings or dings. We appreciate everyones help and love but we have zero updates, zero news... we are missing our loved ones. The wait to determine whom the bodies are is tearing us apart. So please from all the family be patient with us and we are with the police."

Finding Michelle & James Butler
 
As a fellow RV’r this saddens me. I am not full time. It just makes me think about how vulnerable my husband and I are when we camp outside of traditional campgrounds. See, campers are generally friendly, open and always wanting to share a campfire or a beer with a new friend. Something about camping puts ones guard down. MOO
They were living the dream I one day hope to do, full time RV. Wander about.
Sadly, I feel they have been gone way too long for this to turn out OK. Even if the bodies found are not them. MOO
 
zecats said:
What the heck happened to these people...if it's James and Michelle, then they went missing about 11 days before these remains were found. Is that enough time for severe decomposition to take place?
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Yes, in a shallow grave, in temperatures that are not too cold, the blood will decompose at 8-10 days, the organs will break down and the body will fill with gasses. If there is enough insect activity based on soil, moisture, and temperatures, the timeline can move up.
 
Thinking out loud about possible robbery - I don't know how easy it is to get a stolen truck, especially with an RV attached, into Mexico anymore. I know when you take a car over, it's a hassle with the documentation and permits. I can't imagine how hard it would be if you did not have the correct paperwork. Unless you pay someone off I guess? ...

That said, it seems like a strange location to murder someone just to steal their rig and huff it across the border.
 
CrimeDawg123 said:
Thinking out loud about possible robbery - I don't know how easy it is to get a stolen truck, especially with an RV attached, into Mexico anymore. I know when you take a car over, it's a hassle with the documentation and permits. I can't imagine how hard it would be if you did not have the correct paperwork. Unless you pay someone off I guess? ...

That said, it seems like a strange location to murder someone just to steal their rig and huff it across the border.
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I can imagine the driver who took it across the border did have the correct paperwork, as the registration and insurance documents are normally in the glove box of the vehicle. Our RV papers are usually on hand as well, along with a sticker on the camper plate to show it's registered.

Stealing the truck and RV, IMO, means stealing everything along with it. There are no photos attached to any of those documents. Person could have produced his own driver's license as well, if required, which is not proof or disproof of ownership of the truck or RV.

Since the couple was last heard from 10-16 and the truck was seen crossing into Mexico 10-21, is it possible the thief (and potential killer) forced James and Michelle to get money from an ATM? Or used their credit cards in the beginning? I've not heard a report anywhere about the use of their credit cards or any withdrawal of funds during this time.

My mind is trying to understand the time lapse of 5 days before the truck etc was taken into Mexico.
 
zecats said:
I can imagine the driver who took it across the border did have the correct paperwork, as the registration and insurance documents are normally in the glove box of the vehicle. Our RV papers are usually on hand as well, along with a sticker on the camper plate to show it's registered.

Stealing the truck and RV, IMO, means stealing everything along with it. There are no photos attached to any of those documents. Person could have produced his own driver's license as well, if required, which is not proof or disproof of ownership of the truck or RV.

Since the couple was last heard from 10-16 and the truck was seen crossing into Mexico 10-21, is it possible the thief (and potential killer) forced James and Michelle to get money from an ATM? Or used their credit cards in the beginning? I've not heard a report anywhere about the use of their credit cards or any withdrawal of funds during this time.

My mind is trying to understand the time lapse of 5 days before the truck etc was taken into Mexico.
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If I remember reading correctly, the part of the border they crossed over was about 200+ miles from where they were camping. That was not the closest border crossing. That makes me think this person maybe picked up others or had other "business" to attend to before crossing the border and specifically chose that location to cross?
I don't think they were forced to draw out money from an ATM because the bodies were found right where they last camped....IF indeed, this is James & Michelle. MOO
 
FlamingoLady said:
If I remember reading correctly, the part of the border they crossed over was about 200+ miles from where they were camping. That was not the closest border crossing. That makes me think this person maybe picked up others or had other "business" to attend to before crossing the border and specifically chose that location to cross?
I don't think they were forced to draw out money from an ATM because the bodies were found right where they last camped....IF indeed, this is James & Michelle. MOO
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True. I didn’t think that was the case either. About an ATM.
Del Rio border crossing is about 4.5 hours drive away.
It’s possible that even though no one heard from them after the 16th, that whatever happened, happened a few days later. I guess they did not contact family every day. They weren’t reported missing until the 23rd, which means family gave it a week before reacting.
 
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CrimeDawg123 said:
Thinking out loud about possible robbery - I don't know how easy it is to get a stolen truck, especially with an RV attached, into Mexico anymore. I know when you take a car over, it's a hassle with the documentation and permits. I can't imagine how hard it would be if you did not have the correct paperwork. Unless you pay someone off I guess? ...

That said, it seems like a strange location to murder someone just to steal their rig and huff it across the border.
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A friend who works in Mexico often said exactly that....paid off the Mexican immigration. Makes me wonder if that's why the rig was driven past the closest border, Brownsville, and ultimately crossed at Del Rio. If that's correct.
 
I live in El Paso that I go to Mexico often with my car. Sometimes I go through Palomas which is off of the New Mexico border. Going into Mexico at that point you’re not required to show anything. I imagine there are other points of entry into Mexico that are just as lax.
 
susanJones said:
I live in El Paso that I go to Mexico often with my car. Sometimes I go through Palomas which is off of the New Mexico border. Going into Mexico at that point you’re not required to show anything. I imagine there are other points of entry into Mexico that are just as lax.
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Do you go just for the day? Maybe that's why we've had to show documentation since we've gone for a couple weeks? I don't remember, honestly, it's been a while. I know when went in we had to pay for a permit and when we left we had to turn in the permit. IIRC it's so people don't steal cars in the US and drive over the border to sell them.

It makes sense that they could have driven all the way out to Del Rio because they knew someone to get them in easier, or their destination in Mexico was closer to Del Rio than other crossings, and they felt pretty safe driving through Texas. I guess having buried the bodies they felt they had some time.
 
CrimeDawg123 said:
Do you go just for the day? Maybe that's why we've had to show documentation since we've gone for a couple weeks? I don't remember, honestly, it's been a while. I know when went in we had to pay for a permit and when we left we had to turn in the permit. IIRC it's so people don't steal cars in the US and drive over the border to sell them.

It makes sense that they could have driven all the way out to Del Rio because they knew someone to get them in easier, or their destination in Mexico was closer to Del Rio than other crossings, and they felt pretty safe driving through Texas. I guess having buried the bodies they felt they had some time.
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Somewhat answering my own question about crossing the border with a vehicle - it seems if you go beyond the 16 or so mile "border zone", or stay in the border zone longer than just a couple days, you need a Temporary Car Import permit, which requires proof of ID, citizenship, and ownership of the vehicle.

Vehicle Permits

Temporary Vehicle Importation Permit (TIP) Driving Outside Mexico Free Zone | Mexpro

I think it would be pretty hard to just waltz across the border with a stolen truck and RV.
 
CrimeDawg123 said:
Somewhat answering my own question about crossing the border with a vehicle - it seems if you go beyond the 16 or so mile "border zone", or stay in the border zone longer than just a couple days, you need a Temporary Car Import permit, which requires proof of ID, citizenship, and ownership of the vehicle.

Vehicle Permits

Temporary Vehicle Importation Permit (TIP) Driving Outside Mexico Free Zone | Mexpro

I think it would be pretty hard to just waltz across the border with a stolen truck and RV.
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IMHO - At the time the vehicle and RV were supposedly driven across the border at Del Rio (Oct 21), Michelle and James had not yet been reported missing (Oct 23) and therefore the vehicle would not be known to be stolen. All the paperwork needed for the truck and camper would have been available to those who took it.

So..would it still have been difficult to cross or would there still have been some sort of issue? I can't think of any. And there appears to have been no problem getting it into Mexico.
 
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Update: The two bodies found on 10/27/19 have not been identified as of 10/31/19 @ 05:30. They are currently working on obtaining medical & dental records on James & Michelle. The fact that there is a double homicide does not change the fact that there is a missing persons case for James & Michelle. They are two separate cases. Time is crucial right now!

Finding Michelle & James Butler
 
zecats said:
IMHO - At the time the vehicle and RV were supposedly driven across the border at Del Rio (Oct 21), Michelle and James had not yet been reported missing (Oct 23) and therefore the vehicle would not be known to be stolen. All the paperwork needed for the truck and camper would have been available to those who took it.

So..would it still have been difficult to cross or would there still have been some sort of issue? I can't think of any. And there appears to have been no problem getting it into Mexico.
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I guess the question is do the Mexican authorities match up the driver with the ownership/registration papers? Is any of that information recorded in their system? Or did the driver get into Mexico with some greasing of the palms? It would seem logical that if you ask for registration and title, you'd ask for an ID showing you are the name on that paperwork, otherwise, why even ask. So I wonder what exactly happened at the border? And how did Kleberg County Texas (which is not even that close to the border) get the video of the truck passing into Mexico - was that from the US side? Is Mexico LE cooperating? Lots of questions.
 
CrimeDawg123 said:
I guess the question is do the Mexican authorities match up the driver with the ownership/registration papers? Is any of that information recorded in their system? Or did the driver get into Mexico with some greasing of the palms? It would seem logical that if you ask for registration and title, you'd ask for an ID showing you are the name on that paperwork, otherwise, why even ask. So I wonder what exactly happened at the border? And how did Kleberg County Texas (which is not even that close to the border) get the video of the truck passing into Mexico - was that from the US side? Is Mexico LE cooperating? Lots of questions.
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Definitely agree with you about many questions. I suppose it would be different when crossing into another country, though don't know for sure. My married kids, who don't have a car due to living in the city, borrow my vehicle occasionally, so the license and registration papers wouldn't not match up.. Don't think they have too, in fact.

First thing I suppose is to identify the bodies found on the beach where their camper was parked. Then the investigation can fully go forward. (I hope)
 
Yes, it is on a number of sites designed to defray the cost of camping. One poster spent the whole season there as all he had to do was break camp and move every two weeks. It was free. Similar requirements to BLM sites. He did so the entire length of the beach. It is my supposition that the RV was used as a cook site for meth. Similar issues in the triangle area in California. Free camping but then a biker club rolls in, takes over for a week and then leaves. A very frightening story online about it. I never knew things like that existed. Boondocking is not in my future. Yes, in order to go into Mexican interior, you need the insurance and the whole shebang. But people in Del Rio, Brownsville, Del Rio, etc. all can cross easily. Many people live/work in both areas. El Paso is the same.
 
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