CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #60

[oviedo]

Nothing excludes it. The issue though is that one would expect a great deal of blood on that couch, and I think even PF would have thought about this first.

Good point - I’ve been watching the staircase and remembering the blood spatter trials to get the end result - wasn’t there a sheet taken from the ranch with the mop? Hmmm I just know there’s gonna be her blood on something they found there IMO

 

[PommyMommy]

I deleted the bulk above, leaving the bolded paragraph.
This is a frightening statement.
PF in future murders, would use other old fashioned weapons.
Wouldn't this frighten KK?
Similar to a past girl friend, where PF states he knew 'places to hide bodies'.
Is this to frighten people?
MOO.

"in the future"?!

Surely KK could see herself in that scenario!

Haunting- poor Kelsey desperately pleading with him to stop. What a God awful way to leave this world, with the man you loved killing you. So she wasn't knocked out with the first swing, damn it. That rat jerk.

After he killed her, he decided it wasn't humane, killing her with the bat. In the future, he'd stick to normal weapons- implying he would do it again? The old fashioned way? Was that a threat to Krystal?

Why the heck didn't she call the police!

It was absolutely a threat, IMO. He already knew he could manipulate her and he's that sick kind of evil that gets off toying with women. He wanted to scare her so she would do exactly what he needed her to do and keep her mouth shut. Too bad she was too stupid to realize she was just being used. MOO

 

[GoJacks]

Y'all should just listen to Sam.

Think he's hitting all the same points I would.

 

[MassGuy]

Good point - I’ve been watching the staircase and remembering the blood spatter trials to get the end result - wasn’t there a sheet taken from the ranch with the mop? Hmmm I just know there’s gonna be her blood on something they found there IMO

Several items tested positive presumptive for blood at the ranch. It would be yet another dagger through PF’s heart if it is Kelsey’s blood.

I imagine a blood splatter expert is on the witness list.

ETA: Warrant for Ranch

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...ofinterest/2018CR330/002/18-112 Execution.pdf

 

[tmar]

It was absolutely a threat, IMO. He already knew he could manipulate her and he's that sick kind of evil that gets off toying with women. He wanted to scare her so she would do exactly what he needed her to do and keep her mouth shut. Too bad she was too stupid to realize she was just being used. MOO

As previously stated, we have stupid pairs, teaming up in these horrid murders.
Let us hope, Justice is served for all participants.

 

[oviedo]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Here’s the media thread so that “sleuther” can catch up because clearly they must be on another thread right? IMO
CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Here’s a thought perhaps she was seated on the sofa ? And the first blow was struck there and she was knocked over and was crawling and he struck the floor with the bat missing her because she was mobile still? This makes more sense to me since she was blindfolded - you can lose your balance standing blindfolded IMO - I’m guessing now she was seated
JMO and I’m very sorry to be typing this out

Skin splits and gashes on heads gush blood and can soak a towel in under a minute. I agree...She was most likely sitting and our KK RN crime scene cleaner either didn't find it couldn't clean it or was hungry and flipped the cushions. I'd just really like to ask KK if she really thought she could hide blood evidence from a trained CSI?
MOO, MOO

 

[oviedo]

Y'all should just listen to Sam.

Think he's hitting all the same points I would.

Darn he’s back ?
Going now

 

[The Night Watchman]

this is what I heard of KK's testimony today*
Also I forgot a pen so this is all off the top of my head.

Okay so KK drives through the night (with a 20 min power nap somewhere along the way) and is instructed to pick up the keys @ PF's house. Believe he had them in something at the gate of the Franch.

She said she walked in and knew it was bad. Says blood spatter everywhere.
Viehman says, what does blood spatter mean to you. She describes the scene, said it looked more like when you take a paint brush and fling the paint rather than like paint dripping. Blood taller than she could reach in some areas. Says living room floor was covered in blood. Bloody foot prints throughout.

Asks to describe footprints. Says not a child's footprints, not a small footprint, a big boot like footprint. Not cowboy boot as it had tread.

SABBM

When I kill someone, my intent is to do it cleanly and efficiently, leaving no evidence behind. In the case of a woman. I typically play a romantic game with candle scents and blindfold my "love". Then I strangle her in this vulnerable position, leaving no blood evidence behind, and it is relatively quick and efficient. I then dispose of the body and LE cannot pin anything on me, as my DNA is expected to be present in the condo.

Ok, so I haven't killed anyone, but that's how I would do it. Nevermind, I would not kill anyone. Jeez, I catch spiders and ladybugs in the house, and release them outside. But I envision this would be a good way to do what PF has appeared to have done.

But that's not how this guy thinks.

She describes the scene, said it looked more like when you take a paint brush and fling the paint rather than like paint dripping. Blood taller than she could reach in some areas. Says living room floor was covered in blood. Bloody foot prints throughout.

To PF, it's so personal in his twisted mind that he believed she deserved a painful and protracted death. Swinging the bat repeatedly. Premeditated yet so violent, and not an impulsive crime of passion, as he planned it well beforehand.

I have to wonder if this was PF's first time killing, because from KK's testimony, he was pretty comfortable with it.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

No need for more than one gate in that small condo. One set of steps leading to one room upstairs.

JMO

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/269-E-Lake-Ave-Woodland-Park-CO-80863/62719652_zpid/

My son is a month younger than baby K. Last year I had 2 gates for the stairs. When they are downstairs you can't have them climbing when they aren't ready for stairs and you have one at the top for reasons that I hope need no explanation...but do you need one?

 

[oviedo]

October 16 she sleeps at Conoco and then leaves the pipe at the gate and his mom asks why a pipe was at the gate (answer skipped must be because I’m going back and forth)
The FB live 10 EST
Sam Kraemer TV

Link to Sam
Bummed I missed the condo clean up recap

 

[Bluepopsicle]

KK lied to the FBI. I have no reason to believe she's telling the truth now.

I think KK thrives on drama and being the center of attention.

JMO

OK. So what do you think happened to KB. Who killed her, how and what did they do with her?

 

[PommyMommy]

@oviedo or anyone who listened to Sam's Facebook Live, do you remember what Sam said about this? I knew KB was helping PF until the wee hours the night before but I didn't know it was at Nash Ranch.

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Yes they did. I’ll get into that on the Facebook live at the top of the hour
7:11 PM - 6 Nov 2019

(In response to: Sam, Have they said anything yet about Patrick and Kelsey being at Nash ranch all night the night before thanksgiving (nov 21)?)

 

[tmar]

Yeah, KK or KL as you like, will get crucified when cross examined. Eviscerated for her moral (lack of) judgements and actions. Mocked. We will see more tears.

But, she is not on trial. So the monster that she is doesn't matter technically, although it will discredit her to some degree in the eyes of the jury. If her testimony is not exposed by lies or intentional misdirection, the trial will be over, as her testimony will be backed up by tracking evidence of her whereabouts, fingerprints, and the evidence against the cowboy, IMO.

The rodeo queen has revealed things about her decisions and actions that are soul crushing and will haunt her for life. More than anything this makes me think she has come clean, but I still could be wrong.

We shall see how she does on cross examination. A conviction may hang in the balance.

I would think, KK will be in a very bad state tonight. She probably will need medication for any sleep.
Today was traumatic for her, but she was very aware, how she will be questioned. Tomorrow, with Defence, she is unsure how she will be attacked. I guess the Prosecution will interject continually if matters get too hairy, to protect their star witness.
MOO.

 

[susiQ]

SF2 testified PF changed his shoes on the deck when he came back to the ranch for Thanksgiving dinner. I believe he noted he was not familiar with PF's doing chores habit and did not know if this was routine .

Thank you! I missed that.

 

[Seattle1]

Well in Sam's live video, he says that Baby K was a little bit sunburned because PF didn't put sunscreen on her when lugging her around on work jobs in her carrier. (Good thing for those double socks though.)

Then wait, what?? Something about PF donating dog semen for a benefit auction for some friend. Oddly enough it didn't sell. Okay then.

OK, I wasn't sure if I heard that right but I guess I did.

PF agrees to donate for fund raiser for mutual friend with health issue and PF donates what nobody wants. Essentially, he made zero contribution to his friends cause.

Why am I not surprised.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Yes. They wouldn’t have discovered the rest of the blood in that house, or found the storage and burn sites.

They wouldn’t know how this happened, or be able to prove a murder occurred.

No way could they have brought this to trial. I’ve read about and followed many no body cases, and this one would have been a loser without KK.

No prosecutor takes that risk. That’s why the conviction rate in these cases is actually higher than cases in which there is a body.

They only take the very strong ones.

That’s why I’m not as angry about her deal as most people, because I am absolutely convinced that PF would never pay without her cooperation.

It was a deal with the devil, but a necessary one.

I usually agree with your posts.
BUT I differ here. If there was absolutely no danger of kk and her buddy, pf, going to jail, her lawyer would have not pushed for a plea deal. A big IMO since I'm a Nancy Grace trainee.
I will agree that kk absolutely helps the case, though. But for some people to get all hyper about her being a liar, and that she's the only evidence they got, I just can't agree.

 

[oviedo]

@oviedo or anyone who listened to Sam's Facebook Live, do you remember what Sam said about this? I knew KB was helping PF until the wee hours the night before but I didn't know it was at Nash Ranch.

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Yes they did. I’ll get into that on the Facebook live at the top of the hour
7:11 PM - 6 Nov 2019

(In response to: Sam, Have they said anything yet about Patrick and Kelsey being at Nash ranch all night the night before thanksgiving (nov 21)?)

Until 4am IIRC - he rents that land for cattle that’s why he had keys to the loader to move the tote atop the haystack IMO

 

[scdiv]

Darn he’s back ?
Going now

Yes, Sam is doing a good job with the recap. Poor guy, he must be absolutely exhausted. I don't know how his brain isn't fried - mine is, and I didn't sit in court all day hearing this.

 

[Safeguard]

Yeah- much as I can see that she was somewhat under his spell, I can't get past the three attempts to kill Kelsey, then cleaning up the blood spatter afterwards instead of calling LE. She went there with the intentions of pleasing him. I am not saying she wasn't afraid of him, but a normal person would have opened the door to the condo, took one look around, and realized that what she was dating was a sick murderer and she at the very least, should have called the cops right there and then.

She could have had the cops meet him at at the condo. He would have been gone for life. She knew she was dating a "sick murderer" already. She pretended to go introduce herself to KB and gift her a poison coffee! How many convo's does one have to have, "You kill her this way, or that way, No you do it!, No you! "I just can't"...does it take to realize one is "dating" a "murderous killer? She hated Kelsey. That's why she never breathed a word to anyone, not Kelsey, not Kelsey's mom, not a therapist, LE, or even her closest friends...till after KB was dead. Then she was all "afraid"... Mmmhmm. okay.