Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

[HerculeP]

Well. That is some truly disturbing information. I am utterly stunned that the defendant has the gall to plead guilty and put Grace’s family through this trial. Her poor family.

He did not plead guilty.

 

[jaejae]

Another Sky News report on this case:

Grace Millane: Last image of her alive as she texted friend that she'd 'clicked' with alleged killer

A BBC report:

Millane and murder accused 'seen kissing on CCTV'

 

[mrjitty]

As a local to the area that this all happened, my observation is that the places they visited - Andy's Burgers, Mexican Cafe and Bluestone Room - seem a very strange choice for drinks for people that age. Mexican Cafe has lots of young people but that's because it's a cheap place to dine out. I don't think I've ever heard of people going there and not ordering food - it's definitely more of a restaurant than a bar. There are just way more 'cool' places I guess that people that age would go to in the CBD. When I think about these three places the only thing that they have 'going for them' (for want of a better phrase) is that they're very handy to the defendant's apartment. And pretty handy to Grace's hostel too. The three places get progressively closer and closer to the citylife hotel where he lived, and I am guessing that he was working on getting Grace back to his place. We of course know that Grace seemingly went there willingly so it's not anything earth shattering I know, just an observation.

She was young and as a backpacker, didn't yet really know where to go

He was posing as older, sophisticated business guy. My guess is they went to places he normally goes to.

 

[mrjitty]

Do you think admitting this was a big mistake ? If, as a prosecutor you admit you cannot know what happened in that room, you must admit of reasonable doubt.
Hence manslaughter is inevitable. Remember he is speaking directly to the jury here on Day 1 !

Nah - it is a reasonably common meme in these trials. His lying indicates he is hiding what really happened.

The prosecution can't be expected to know all the details, but we know enough. It is a common template.

 

[mrjitty]

Right, how convenient is it if throttling someone (let's face it, pretty much always a female someone) to death is now classified as accidental side effect of consensual sex, for which the male should not be held to account for or even, according to this guy's attorney, feel too bad about?

His actions with photographing her corpse and hopping right back on Tinder are beyond sinister. Even more sinister than disposing of the body IMO.

Speaking of Tinder was there anything in court about the timing of their Tinder connection or communications before they met up on Dec 1?

I think the amount of blood around the place is also significant.

 

[HerculeP]

Nah - it is a reasonably common meme in these trials. His lying indicates he is hiding what really happened.

The prosecution can't be expected to know all the details, but we know enough. It is a common template.

But the prosecutor is telling the jury he does not, and they also cannot know what really happened. I have never heard of that before.

 

[jamjim]

But the prosecutor is telling the jury he does not, and they also cannot know what really happened. I have never heard of that before.

He's saying Grace cannot tell them what happened, as she's no longer alive to tell them. He's also saying that the suspect is not telling the truth. That doesn't mean they don't have a good idea of what happened, based on evidence presented to them in the apartment. The amount of blood found in the room is large, rather quite large, for example.

 

[Mariposa]

In the CCTV footage I found it so sad when Grace is interacting with others such as the cashier as they are paying, she has such a kind smile.
Watch: CCTV footage of Grace Millane's final date – what the jury has seen

What was he doing rifling through her purse? What a creep.

Surprising how the Luminol lit up the hotel room --that's a lot of blood for an asphyxiation. Me thinks there was more to her injuries. Perhaps the condition she was found be in limited the conclusions that could be drawn from autopsy?

 

[jamjim]

In the CCTV footage I found it so sad when Grace is interacting with others such as the cashier as they are paying, she has such a kind smile.
Watch: CCTV footage of Grace Millane's final date – what the jury has seen

What was he doing rifling through her purse? What a creep.

Surprising how the Luminol lit up the hotel room --that's a lot of blood for an asphyxiation. Me thinks there was more to her injuries. Perhaps the condition she was found be in limited the conclusions that could be drawn from autopsy?

That's exactly how I felt. She looks so happy and excited, just like you should be on a date with someone.

I wonder what he was looking for in her bag? Perhaps he was hoping to find her phone to see what she was saying about him to her friends, MOO.

 

[jamjim]

"The court also heard a statement read to the court from Grace's friend Ameena Ashcroft, which detailed messages she was sent by Grace while on her date with the accused.

She told her she was on a date with a man who was a manager with an oil company. Ashcroft said made her concerned, but she did not say anything to Grace.

"I thought something was a bit weird," Ashcroft's statement said.

Grace messaged her friend again later in the evening saying "cocktails all round", and later wrote "he was like, 'it's birthday tomorrow, we are getting smashed' [sic]."

"That rang alarm bells to me," Ashcroft said.

Grace later messaged her to tell her the date was going "really good" adding: "I click with him so well."

Ashcroft sent a couple of other messages she didn't get a reply to but said she didn't have concerns for her safety."

Grace Millane murder trial: Evidence of backpacker's demise found in accused killer's room

 

[jamjim]

Watch: CCTV footage of Grace Millane's final date – what the jury has seen

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[mrjitty]

But the prosecutor is telling the jury he does not, and they also cannot know what really happened. I have never heard of that before.

Similar things have been said in multiple trials.

The Crown is not required to prove "what happened" in the room - this is all mud the defence is trying to throw on the wall.

It is always necessary to be precise about actus reus and mens rea of the offence - for which we must consult the Crimes Act 1961

oh how this takes me back to my 8am Crimes 200 lectures

first port of call

160 Culpable homicide
(1) Homicide may be either culpable or not culpable.

(2) Homicide is culpable when it consists in the killing of any person—

(a)
by an unlawful act; or [/ snipped]

(3) Except as provided in section 178, culpable homicide is either murder or manslaughter.

(4) Homicide that is not culpable is not an offence.

second port of call

167Murder defined

Culpable homicide is murder in each of the following cases:

(a) if the offender means to cause the death of the person killed:

(b) if the offender means to cause to the person killed any bodily injury that is known to the offender to be likely to cause death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not:

(c) if the offender means to cause death, or, being so reckless as aforesaid, means to cause such bodily injury as aforesaid to one person, and by accident or mistake kills another person, though he or she does not mean to hurt the person killed:

(d) if the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he or she knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he or she may have desired that his or her object should be effected without hurting any one.

So here is what we know.

1. The victim is dead via strangulation. That is an unlawful act. It's simply not lawful to choke another person to death. Therefore the only question is going to be whether the requisite intent for murder can be proven.

2. The intent for murder is almost always inferred from the circumstantial evidence. Looking at all the circumstances what logical and obvious inferences can we draw?

3. A person does not just die by choking by accident. It requires minutes of deliberate choking, and the victim is certain to have resisted. There is evidence of restraint - i.e. deliberate acts to prevent the victim from escaping.

4. IMO worst case, this is clearly covered by 167(c). The offender knows strangulation can cause death, and by mix of violent restraint and strangulation, did in fact cause death - even if he did not mean to go so far.

The law has long covered this kind of situation where a violent act is committed which causes death, even though death was perhaps not intended. The Crown doesn't have to prove that.

They just need to prove he strangled her to death, and that it is simply not believable that she was consenting to it.

 

[mrjitty]

IMO what is most damning in terms of inferring intent

1. Evidence of previous, non consensual, strangling assault in sexual context

2. Post death - non believable story that he thought Grace had left

3. Large amount of blood - not believable in consensual scenario

4. Conduct post death - watching *advertiser censored*

5. Attempt to cover up crime not consistent with accidental death

6. Lying to police.

7. Especially the trophy photos of the corpse

 

[AllyBeeUK]

“9.20pm - Grace leaves the table. The defendant picks up Grace's handbag and looks inside it while she is off camera. He takes a sip of her drink also.”

Going through her bag while she was away from the table. Sounding like an all-round great guy, this one.

That stood out to me too. How creepy.

 

[jamjim]

That stood out to me too. How creepy.

Saw this on the NZ Herald website:

"By 9.10pm the pair appear to be very comfortable in each other's company and continue to kiss. Millane then leaves the table at 9.20pm and enters main room of the pub - possibly to use the bathroom.

The accused initially waits and uses his phone but then picks up Millane's handbag and appears to go through it, looking at items inside.

After rummaging through her bag, however, he puts it back in a different place than where it was left - on the stool rather than the table - but Millane doesn't notice when she returns."

Watch: CCTV footage of Grace Millane's final date – what the jury has seen

Sounds like he was having a good look in it. So creepy.

 

[Tortoise]

Do you think admitting this was a big mistake ? If, as a prosecutor you admit you cannot know what happened in that room, you must admit of reasonable doubt.
Hence manslaughter is inevitable. Remember he is speaking directly to the jury here on Day 1 !

No I don't think it's a mistake - I don't interpret "only two people know what happened"as a directive to the jury that they cannot collectively agree on what happened, based on the evidence - from Grace's body, the defendant's actions and other evidence contradicting his account.

I don't agree that Grace willingly agreed to be treated so roughly that she would have all that bruising on her body. I mean how convenient that Grace wanted that and she paired up with a stranger who would agree to hurt her so badly and feel comfortable doing that to her. The bruising, his photographs, the movement of blood (I think while she was alive and fighting him - not when it would be dried hours later) tell the story. I don't think it's coincidence that he's done something similar to another girl either.

No doubt for me.

 

[AllyBeeUK]

Saw this on the NZ Herald website:

"By 9.10pm the pair appear to be very comfortable in each other's company and continue to kiss. Millane then leaves the table at 9.20pm and enters main room of the pub - possibly to use the bathroom.

The accused initially waits and uses his phone but then picks up Millane's handbag and appears to go through it, looking at items inside.

After rummaging through her bag, however, he puts it back in a different place than where it was left - on the stool rather than the table - but Millane doesn't notice when she returns."

Watch: CCTV footage of Grace Millane's final date – what the jury has seen

Sounds like he was having a good look in it. So creepy.

It's such a violation to go through a woman's handbag, my husband doesn't even go in mine unless I specifically ask him to fetch me something. I don't think he was looking for anything or doing anything specific, it's just really weird stalker-type behaviour.

Has there been an explanation for the large amount of blood? I thought she died from asphyxiation?

Also, that is a lot of alcohol, I'm surprised they are so steady on their feet. I'm in my mid 30s and that amount of alcohol would have me on my knees.

 

[Stumpyaura]

Saw this on the NZ Herald website:

"By 9.10pm the pair appear to be very comfortable in each other's company and continue to kiss. Millane then leaves the table at 9.20pm and enters main room of the pub - possibly to use the bathroom.

The accused initially waits and uses his phone but then picks up Millane's handbag and appears to go through it, looking at items inside.

After rummaging through her bag, however, he puts it back in a different place than where it was left - on the stool rather than the table - but Millane doesn't notice when she returns."

Watch: CCTV footage of Grace Millane's final date – what the jury has seen

Sounds like he was having a good look in it. So creepy.

I noticed he put it back in a different place, wonder if he was checking how drunk she was or was going to gas light her if she noticed

 

[Stumpyaura]

We also don't know how much of the alcohol he consumed, he could have been plying Millane with it and not getting that drunk himself. It's so sad watching the CCTV and the text messages to her friend. I can imagine at that age it would seem exciting and flashy that he 'lived in a hotel'.