Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

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I've also been wondering why the girls persistently asked Kelsi to give them a ride to the bridge. They asked a couple of times before Kelsi caved. I have forgotten what it is like to be a teenager that age but wouldn't have they given up at some point? Or did they know that Kelsi would give in eventually? It's just a little weird that they asked several times.
That's kind of normal teen behavior. Mine used to ask me for the same thing over and over, expecting to wear me down eventually. Often it worked, which is why they kept doing it.

It's not surprising to me that they asked several times over a period of days for a ride to the bridge.

It may be a big deal, and meant they planned to meet someone. OR it may have just meant they really wanted to go take some cool pix on the bridge, and hike and see who else was there that day.

I don't know. JMO
 
I've also been wondering why the girls persistently asked Kelsi to give them a ride to the bridge. They asked a couple of times before Kelsi caved. I have forgotten what it is like to be a teenager that age but wouldn't have they given up at some point? Or did they know that Kelsi would give in eventually? It's just a little weird that they asked several times.

This is the first time I've heard of the girls persistently asking Kelsi for a ride to the bridge and does not accord with what Becky says.

The following is an extract from my transcript of Gray Hughes' interview with Mike and Becky Patty:

Monday morning

BP: "They slept in ‘cause they were up late. When they got up it was, I don’t know, probably 10:00 or so and Derrick made them pancakes. They had pancakes, and of course Libby always wants to be on the go and she was wanting to do something but Kelsi had to work that day. I was working and Derrick took off to go take some pictures for me, and so I told Libby – she’d kind of gotten into shopping recently. She enjoyed shopping which was new for her because I used to have to drag her with me to buy her school clothes. Because Libby has started enjoying shopping, I told her that “I have some filing to do and if you girls want to do some filing for me, I’ll pay you and maybe later on today or tonight when I’m done, we could go”.

So they came out and were doing some filing – they were out with the file cabinets, filing and stuff – and Kelsi came out – see, I don’t know the exact time of that, you know, why would we have paid attention to that – but she came out – it was probably close to 1:00 and said, “Hey, I work at 4:00. I’m going to go to a friend’s house for a little bit and then, then I’m going on to work. Well, as soon as Libby heard that, Libby jumped up and said, “Hey, will you take us to the bridge?” and Kelsi said, “I don’t care”. And she looked at me and said, “Grandma, can I go?” and I said, “Well, you’ve got to have a ride home ‘cause I’m working and I can’t stop to pick you up, you know, until quitting time and I’m not – I just don’t have the time to do it”. So she said, “Well, I’ll just call my Dad”. Well, I assumed that she called her Dad. I didn’t specifically say, “Libby, did you call your Dad?” I assumed it was done. And another thing that I automatically tell kids when they have a friend over when they ask if they can do something, one of the things that I automatically say is, is it okay with their parents. You know, like that’s just – any time somebody spends the night and they want to go do something, then I’ll say, well, they have to ask their parents too. I assumed that everything was okay when she came and said, “Hey, we’re leaving”. She called her Dad on the way but it’s because she knew that he would never tell her “No”. He ne…, Derrick never told her “No” for anything, not that she ever asked for anything unrealistic but if she asked him to do something, he just, he did it. It’s just that – and if he would have said, “No”, I guess she would have come back home – Kelsi would have just brought her home – but there was no reason for him not to. He was taking these pictures, about 3 miles out of his way to swing by and pick her up. So it wasn’t big deal for him to swing by and pick her up. And they did. That’s when they left."
 
This is the first time I've heard of the girls persistently asking Kelsi for a ride to the bridge and does not accord with what Becky says.

The following is an extract from my transcript of Gray Hughes' interview with Mike and Becky Patty:

SBM
Persistent to me is that they asked her several times in the week before. It's what Kelsi stated (check her rumor debunking video).
 
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That's kind of normal teen behavior. Mine used to ask me for the same thing over and over, expecting to wear me down eventually. Often it worked, which is why they kept doing it.

It's not surprising to me that they asked several times over a period of days for a ride to the bridge.

It may be a big deal, and meant they planned to meet someone. OR it may have just meant they really wanted to go take some cool pix on the bridge, and hike and see who else was there that day.

I don't know. JMO

That's what I mean - what made it so important to go there? I kinda think that I would have given up if it hadn't been important.
 
You guys never had to reboot your phones before? I’ve had to do it sooo many times thru out the years for various reasons (like the phone not registering to service, battery issues, games or apps freezing up the phone making it unbearably slow, hand-me down phone, many reasons). So I don’t think it’s all that strange. Didn’t someone in her family say her phone was having issues prior to having it rebooted
 
You guys never had to reboot your phones before? I’ve had to do it sooo many times thru out the years for various reasons (like the phone not registering to service, battery issues, games or apps freezing up the phone making it unbearably slow, hand-me down phone, many reasons). So I don’t think it’s all that strange. Didn’t someone in her family say her phone was having issues prior to having it rebooted

Good point!
 
You guys never had to reboot your phones before? I’ve had to do it sooo many times thru out the years for various reasons (like the phone not registering to service, battery issues, games or apps freezing up the phone making it unbearably slow, hand-me down phone, many reasons). So I don’t think it’s all that strange. Didn’t someone in her family say her phone was having issues prior to having it rebooted

She didn't just reboot, though. She did a factory reset. That basically wipes your phone. In 20+ years I've never done a reset.
 
She didn't just reboot, though. She did a factory reset. That basically wipes your phone. In 20+ years I've never done a reset.

I have (and yes, I read that factory reset into @PezCandy 's post)! But I wonder how tech savvy they were and if Libby *said* that the phone was having issues or if the family knew that it was having issues.
 
She didn't just reboot, though. She did a factory reset. That basically wipes your phone. In 20+ years I've never done a reset.

Normally, a factory reset rids a phone of contacts, photos, apps, stuff in cache, and puts the phone back to it's original state when you first got it. However, there is ample evidence that a reset does not necessarily result in a 'clean wipe' of everything on a phone, but a teenager in 8th grade would likely think that it does.
 
She didn't just reboot, though. She did a factory reset. That basically wipes your phone. In 20+ years I've never done a reset.
IMO, the most common reason to do it is because there's so much stuff on it taking up too much memory causing it to slow down and/or freeze up. It's much easier to do a factory reset than delete everything manually.

I don't know how tech savvy she was but if she had everything backed up to the cloud, then it makes perfect sense to do a factory reset. Then it's like having a new phone.

I've done it a few times.
 
You would think he would be tech savvy enough to realize he needed to get rid of any phones. But, theoretically, if we are talking about a young person this is likely their first (major) crime. Perhaps in the moment, especially if the crime was committed out of blind rage, he wasn’t thinking clearly enough to grab the phone(s). I have heard talks, however, about the crime scene being staged by the murderer after the act. If there is any weight to that claim, I think that pretty much negates any theory that the murderer left the scene quickly.

I haven’t checked these discussions in a while, and I’ve been trying to catch up. It’s disheartening to say the least that we have nothing new to go on.

I reckon he didn't take it because he couldn't find it and didn't have time to hang about and search for it. LG either dropped it, Threw it or hid it. Just thinking aloud.

MingMoo
 
In regards to the "attack" being recorded:

@Spy Versus Spy posted this when I asked months ago -

It's from Episode 10 of the Renner series of interviews : Virtually a Detective: Case #101 Delphi.


@1m.17s

Renner : Is the attack itself on the recording?

Leazenby: Err...No.

In regards to the whether the girls were uncomfortable and purposefully videoed BG:

@Spellbound posted transcripts of the Holeman interview. BBM

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

[a man out of the scene is asking a question] For the image to be captured on the phone, was there prior video of the girls together before that, or do you think they felt danger from this person and that is why she recorded that clip of him?

H: Both. There were pictures of ... they went out there to take pictures on the bridge, and there was pictures and video, but it appeared that, and this has been said before, that Liberty had enough senses to realize that something wasn't right and she started that video because she felt uncomfortable, both girls were uncomfortable. And I think that's why. But they were out there taking pictures with the phone and videos.
 
The murder occurred on February 13, 2017--two years and 10 months ago. Liberty German videotaped the murderer walking across the bridge, and may have even recorded the murder itself. There have been thousands of tips, but no arrests.
6 months ago in an uncomfortable news conference that seemed overly emotional and even IMO unprofessional, with references to a movie (The Shack), and announcements of a new investigative strategy, directed at the murderer apparently, LEO issued a new sketch which looks nothing like the guy Libby videotaped on the bridge.

Still no arrest since that time. Given the length of time since the murders, and the confusion about the two sketches, to me it unfortunately seems this case is heading towards cold case status, with little chance of LEO arresting anyone and little chance of justice for Libby and Abby. Does anyone else hold that view, or do you feel LEO will eventually find and arrest the murderer?
I can understand why you would think it's on the verge of becoming a cold case. But, IMO, it will never become a cold case because I believe LE know who killed them but don't have enough to prosecute.

As long as the case remains open, which technically means it's not cold - yes, I get that it's just semantics - and as long as the men and women who have been investigating this case are still breathing, it will never be cold. It's that personal to them.

I believe the upcoming anniversary of their murder will be especially hard for anyone who knows what really happened and has not done the right thing. If you're a person with any compassion - or believe in God, as I do - a secret like this will slowly kill you.

Let today be the day that this person does the right thing.
 
This is the first time I've heard of the girls persistently asking Kelsi for a ride to the bridge and does not accord with what Becky says.

The following is an extract from my transcript of Gray Hughes' interview with Mike and Becky Patty:

Monday morning

BP: "They slept in ‘cause they were up late. When they got up it was, I don’t know, probably 10:00 or so and Derrick made them pancakes. They had pancakes, and of course Libby always wants to be on the go and she was wanting to do something but Kelsi had to work that day. I was working and Derrick took off to go take some pictures for me, and so I told Libby – she’d kind of gotten into shopping recently. She enjoyed shopping which was new for her because I used to have to drag her with me to buy her school clothes. Because Libby has started enjoying shopping, I told her that “I have some filing to do and if you girls want to do some filing for me, I’ll pay you and maybe later on today or tonight when I’m done, we could go”.

So they came out and were doing some filing – they were out with the file cabinets, filing and stuff – and Kelsi came out – see, I don’t know the exact time of that, you know, why would we have paid attention to that – but she came out – it was probably close to 1:00 and said, “Hey, I work at 4:00. I’m going to go to a friend’s house for a little bit and then, then I’m going on to work. Well, as soon as Libby heard that, Libby jumped up and said, “Hey, will you take us to the bridge?” and Kelsi said, “I don’t care”. And she looked at me and said, “Grandma, can I go?” and I said, “Well, you’ve got to have a ride home ‘cause I’m working and I can’t stop to pick you up, you know, until quitting time and I’m not – I just don’t have the time to do it”. So she said, “Well, I’ll just call my Dad”. Well, I assumed that she called her Dad. I didn’t specifically say, “Libby, did you call your Dad?” I assumed it was done. And another thing that I automatically tell kids when they have a friend over when they ask if they can do something, one of the things that I automatically say is, is it okay with their parents. You know, like that’s just – any time somebody spends the night and they want to go do something, then I’ll say, well, they have to ask their parents too. I assumed that everything was okay when she came and said, “Hey, we’re leaving”. She called her Dad on the way but it’s because she knew that he would never tell her “No”. He ne…, Derrick never told her “No” for anything, not that she ever asked for anything unrealistic but if she asked him to do something, he just, he did it. It’s just that – and if he would have said, “No”, I guess she would have come back home – Kelsi would have just brought her home – but there was no reason for him not to. He was taking these pictures, about 3 miles out of his way to swing by and pick her up. So it wasn’t big deal for him to swing by and pick her up. And they did. That’s when they left."
So this is pretty significant, in my opinion. Because in this version it doesn’t state that Abby actually called Anna, and spoke with Anna to ask permission. Because in other versions I had heard previously, Becky stated that Abby had to call Anna to ask permission first. So was Anna even aware that they were going to the Bridge? Did Abby actually call her and ask permission? Because if not that might eliminate DE knowing that they were going to the bridge.
 
True. But you would think he would have just thrown it in the creek at least. If he did turn the phone off, it’s weird he then just left it at the scene.
Maybe the ringing spooked him and he just left it.

But, IMO, I think most people know that it's like carrying around a GPS even if it's powered off.
 
Normally, a factory reset rids a phone of contacts, photos, apps, stuff in cache, and puts the phone back to it's original state when you first got it. However, there is ample evidence that a reset does not necessarily result in a 'clean wipe' of everything on a phone, but a teenager in 8th grade would likely think that it does.

The latest reset steps on my Android asked about deleting files and the like, and I clicked on a box for "NO". It saved files, although I'd backed them up, anyway.

I don't think there's anything pertinent to why LG's phone was reset, could be anything.
 
This is the first time I've heard of the girls persistently asking Kelsi for a ride to the bridge and does not accord with what Becky says.

The following is an extract from my transcript of Gray Hughes' interview with Mike and Becky Patty:

Monday morning

BP: "They slept in ‘cause they were up late. When they got up it was, I don’t know, probably 10:00 or so and Derrick made them pancakes. They had pancakes, and of course Libby always wants to be on the go and she was wanting to do something but Kelsi had to work that day. I was working and Derrick took off to go take some pictures for me, and so I told Libby – she’d kind of gotten into shopping recently. She enjoyed shopping which was new for her because I used to have to drag her with me to buy her school clothes. Because Libby has started enjoying shopping, I told her that “I have some filing to do and if you girls want to do some filing for me, I’ll pay you and maybe later on today or tonight when I’m done, we could go”.

So they came out and were doing some filing – they were out with the file cabinets, filing and stuff – and Kelsi came out – see, I don’t know the exact time of that, you know, why would we have paid attention to that – but she came out – it was probably close to 1:00 and said, “Hey, I work at 4:00. I’m going to go to a friend’s house for a little bit and then, then I’m going on to work. Well, as soon as Libby heard that, Libby jumped up and said, “Hey, will you take us to the bridge?” and Kelsi said, “I don’t care”. And she looked at me and said, “Grandma, can I go?” and I said, “Well, you’ve got to have a ride home ‘cause I’m working and I can’t stop to pick you up, you know, until quitting time and I’m not – I just don’t have the time to do it”. So she said, “Well, I’ll just call my Dad”. Well, I assumed that she called her Dad. I didn’t specifically say, “Libby, did you call your Dad?” I assumed it was done. And another thing that I automatically tell kids when they have a friend over when they ask if they can do something, one of the things that I automatically say is, is it okay with their parents. You know, like that’s just – any time somebody spends the night and they want to go do something, then I’ll say, well, they have to ask their parents too. I assumed that everything was okay when she came and said, “Hey, we’re leaving”. She called her Dad on the way but it’s because she knew that he would never tell her “No”. He ne…, Derrick never told her “No” for anything, not that she ever asked for anything unrealistic but if she asked him to do something, he just, he did it. It’s just that – and if he would have said, “No”, I guess she would have come back home – Kelsi would have just brought her home – but there was no reason for him not to. He was taking these pictures, about 3 miles out of his way to swing by and pick her up. So it wasn’t big deal for him to swing by and pick her up. And they did. That’s when they left."


BBM.

Not shading family, just curious. If Derrick never told her "No" for anything, then when Libby was asking all week to go to the bridge, why didn't he take her then? Why did she ask Kelci and not Dad? Do we know?
 
Am I the only one here who still believes LE has no idea who BG is? It seems many people here think LE knows who he is but doesn’t have enough evidence to prosecute - and you guys may certainly be correct about that, considering that strange, strange, April press conference...
 
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