GUILTY UK - Blake, 14 & Tristan Barrass, 13, dead, 4 hospitalized, Sheffield, May 2019 *Arrests*

[CoverMeCagney]

I hope these children have chance at a new life far away, the further the better. I hope they are not placed with ANY of this family. I hope they get all the psychological, educational and social help they need so this pattern is never repeated. My final hope is that these so called parents don't last 35 days in prison, let alone 35 years, they don't deserve to have freedom ever again.

 

[Edinlass]

From a genetic perspective, there are a lot of conditions that are caused by recessive genes, meaning you need one from each parent. So if those conditions are present in a family, then there'd be an increased risk in children of such a relationship compared to the general population.

But if those conditions aren't present in the genes, then the risk simply isn't there and the children of such a relationship could be as healthy as anyone else in the general population. If it goes on for many generations in a limited gene pool that does have recessive trait conditions then it's more likely to cause problems. I can't even think off the top of my head of a condition that is from recessive genes...Some things on recessive genes are pretty ordinary things like red hair, but some things are a lot more serious. And people who are not related can carry the same recessive gene and their children have increased risk of the conditions or traits on those genes.

So there's a good chance that the children would be as healthy as anyone else.

NB. I'm not saying these things in defence of incest, but more to clarify that health problems are not a foregone conclusion.

Another thing here is that they were half-siblings. So let's say, for example, that there was a different father, and then a male child was born of such a pairing, the child would get an X chromosome from the mother and an unrelated Y-chromosome from the father. So that's just like a child of unrelated parents. But let's say for example that the parents had the same mother and a girl was born, and that gets a lot more complicated....

Let's say the grandmother is X1 X2 (because she has two X chromosomes)

And let's say both the male and the female have inherited the X1

Now if a coupling between these two results in a girl, she *might* inherit X1 from both parents, so she'd by X1X1, and that is a way that problems could crop up.

I have no idea how these two are related, I'm just giving general examples of how the genetics could theoretically combine, and how some combinations in offspring could be higher risk, but it's still not necessarily going to result in health problems in the offspring.

Thanks, very informative. I did wonder if it would make a difference if they have the same mother as apposed to the same father.

 

[Alyce]

Social services had been involved with their family in the 1990s and concerns had been raised about the half-siblings developing a sexual relationship.

The children believed and told officers at the scene their father was dead, having died in the Second World War.


Parents who are SIBLINGS are jailed for life for murder of sons | Daily Mail Online


Well, SS clearly didn't have too many concerns, takes a while to produce six children

I wonder what other children thought, if they told this story in school

 

[jaejae]

Another report about this case from the Guardian:

Incestuous couple who murdered their teenage sons jailed for life | Crime | The Guardian

A report from Sky News:

Sarah Barrass: Sheffield mother jailed for murdering two teenage sons

A BBC report:

Child murder plot parents strangled teenage sons

 

[Candidateforwax]

I hope these children have chance at a new life far away, the further the better. I hope they are not placed with ANY of this family. I hope they get all the psychological, educational and social help they need so this pattern is never repeated. My final hope is that these so called parents don't last 35 days in prison, let alone 35 years, they don't deserve to have freedom ever again.

I think, given the family's long history with SS, that it's highly unlikely the other children have been placed with relatives.

 

[RachelZachary]

This is shocking. What a waste of life. Why was nothing done sooner?!

Why were they not prosecuted for incest? Plenty of cases when this has happened. It seems like this is a troubled family that have been allowed for too long to get away with a long history of crime, neglect and abuse. I hope a full investigation takes place. How many other families are there at risk like this?

 

[Elainera]

Just catching up and want to thank LB for all the updates! You've been very busy today!

They will both be in their 70s when they get out, one can hope they die in prison and the children never have to fear running across them ever again.

I wish them (the children) that they get lots of love and support and hopefully can heal and move on with their lives in a much normal and loving environment.

 

[chimpface]

Cheers LB. As we suspected Machin was the father, you only had to look at pictures of the two kids killed, they were the spit of him.

Utterly depraved. Should have been a whole life sentence for both.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

What a load of rubbish. She told a friend 'she loved her kids too much for them to go into care'....but also said she had been thinking of mass murder for a time.

I don't believe she loved them, she saw them as possessions to dispose of when it got too much and they didn't benefit her anymore, 6 individuals that you have to nurture and care for becomes far too much for these types once the novelty has worn off. The pushing them to do stuff for charity and all the stuff she posted on facebook fits with that.
It's appalling that the authorities didn't pick up on any of the obviously violent facebook posts or the incest situation...I suppose that's partly to do with cuts to sevices that have been going on for years.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

From sky news, the motive her covering up her choice to sleep with her brother and thinking she owned them and could dispose of them. That's nothing to do with loving the kids, just self preservation. You've got to wonder what happened in these two's childhood to make them sociopaths like this. 'regularly tell them' she could kill them?!

'A witness told police that Sarah Barrass, 35, would regularly tell her children: "I gave you life, I can take it away"......
......The prosecution said Barrass was worried the children were going to be taken into care, where their parentage might be discovered.'

Sarah Barrass: Sheffield mother jailed for murdering two teenage sons

 

[mrazda71]

From sky news, the motive her covering up her choice to sleep with her brother and thinking she owned them and could dispose of them. That's nothing to do with loving the kids, just self preservation. You've got to wonder what happened in these two's childhood to make them sociopaths like this. 'regularly tell them' she could kill them?!

'A witness told police that Sarah Barrass, 35, would regularly tell her children: "I gave you life, I can take it away"......
......The prosecution said Barrass was worried the children were going to be taken into care, where their parentage might be discovered.'

Sarah Barrass: Sheffield mother jailed for murdering two teenage sons

Re- the things such as the shared Facebook memes and saying 'I brought you into this world, I can take you out' ... viewed with hindsight, they seem more sinister than I believe they actually are.

That phrase, as unpleasant as it now feels, is one that's said by many - it's a quote from a comedian's routine.

What's more concerning is that 6! Children are conceived through incest!

Did the healthcare teams for each pregnancy know?
Did social services know?
Did the family know?

 

[Ironside]

Social services had been involved with their family in the 1990s and concerns had been raised about the half-siblings developing a sexual relationship.

The children believed and told officers at the scene their father was dead, having died in the Second World War.

It’s not that uncommon for siblings separated by care to develop a sexual relationship. Remember the girl in 2006 in Scotland who got pregnant at 11 - the father was her own brother.
Edited to say it was rape however she believed the lack of boundaries from being in care was a factor in her brother wanting sex with her.

The fact that these two actually believed their dad died in ww2 shows how badly educated they both were. Edit I’m wrong it was their children who were told that.

 

[mrazda71]

It’s not that uncommon for siblings separated by care to develop a sexual relationship. Remember the girl in 2006 in Scotland who got pregnant at 11 - the father was her own brother.

The fact that these two actually believed their dad died in ww2 shows how badly educated they both were.

I thought it read as it was Sarah's children that believed that THEIR Dad had died in WWII

 

[CoverMeCagney]

It’s not that uncommon for siblings separated by care to develop a sexual relationship. Remember the girl in 2006 in Scotland who got pregnant at 11 - the father was her own brother.

The fact that these two actually believed their dad died in ww2 shows how badly educated they both were.

Yes, it's the KIDS (all aged under 13) who told police their dad had died in WW2. So basically, even worse than you first thought!

 

[Ironside]

Yes, it's the KIDS (all aged under 13) who told police their dad had died in WW2. So basically, even worse than you first thought!

Oh Christ that’s even worse!

Imagine being the poor police officers having to deal with that scene and also having to process the sheer bizarreness of a child saying their dad died in WW2. Could they not have told them to say Iraq or something slightly more believable?

This is one of those bonkers and totally horrible cases that will haunt me.

 

[catgreen]

Poppycock.

I know Bryan Cox personally and he is someone with significant integrity

 

[Mercsw]

Disgusting scum, I have nothing else to say about them. Joke sentence as I fail to see how that’s not a full life tariff. Pre meditated and planned to the extreme.

I also wonder how social services haven’t been involved. No excuses but the mother was referred as a kid for abuse, neglect and sexual assault by relatives. Yet somehow they have allowed another generation to be exposed to the same abuses.

at what point do alarm bells go off? She has had six kids incest and no one said anything? There should have been an intervention in 1990 not a review in 2020

 

[Joolz1975]

I know Bryan Cox personally and he is someone with significant integrity

He had a job to do. I dont envy him and I am sure privately he is as sickened as the rest of us.

Someone had to defend them I suppose, even though I dont feel they deserve a defence but the law is the law.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

at what point do alarm bells go off?

...when a kid or two end up dead

 

[Rosegold68]

i don't mind its not a life tariff

realistically, they will never walk free, no parole board will let that happen, not with the details of this case being so horrific

so let them have false hope and experience disappointment after disappointment when they realise they won't ever be free