IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

[Aydrianna523]

SA's Frequent Moves?
@SuzDuJour IIRC, someone here said they counted ~ 29 moves on a public record report.
I noticed ---
--- a few addy's pre-dated 2000.
--- a couple addy's were PO boxes (one in Ohio).
--- one addy was shown twice, w same date.
--- one addy was displayed 3 times, w same date. Duplicate/erroneous entry?
Even ignoring these ^, looks like SA moved ~20 in ~ 20 yrs; mostly in South Bend/Valparaiso areas, except for a few in early/mid 2000s in Moline IL/quad city area. << per cursory glance at zip codes.

Who moves that frequently?

Wow!!
Do you know how long they were married?

 

[Aydrianna523]

So, this is interesting. Hypothetically, if you were selected for jury duty for this case, would you be able to view the evidence empirically? Or have you already decided that this was not negligence on the part of Anello?

That lifting up a toddler to sit on a guard railing by an open window 11 stories up is a reasonable act?

Good question. Would I convict? Yikes.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Non payment of rent..

Getting evicted over and over would leave a trail of eviction lawsuits. Public records.
I’ll leave that to someone else to research.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Wow!!
Do you know how long they were married?

20 some years. And from what I recall, she was a bit older than him. Seems he came into their lives about the time she was 17. Per previous posts.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Winkleman continuously describes "a wall of windows" and suggests that a portion of the wall had a "hole". This is a crude and erroneous remark that makes it sound like a major construction flaw rather than an open window. If there was a "wall of windows", why couldn't Chloe have banged on any of the windows, the lower ones in particular? Why did Grandpa happen to lift Chloe up to the only open window? Winkleman can spin this any way he wants, but he will never convince me that Grandpa thought there was glass there.

You're right. Grandpa gravitated to the only window that was open. He knew it was open. Too much coincidence, otherwise.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Nope. You’re all not correct, but good guesses.
If SA found guilty, under maritime law, liability is shared, from what I have read. So their kabillion dollar case turns into half a kabillion. I can’t remember if it’s half and half, I’d have to look again. Maybe if more than half liable, other party goes free.

Always follow the money.

I did not intend to insult any sleuthers with the family’s psychological issues. But I’m convinced it’s a big money payout issue.

Immediately hiring a maritime lawyer reeks. Criminal lawyer is understandable, especially in light of the mom and dad’s strong ties to law enforcement. They knew what SA did was a criminal act. But as I recall, SA didn’t have a criminal lawyer immediately.
You know, this just hit me: maybe SA had a similar incident in his past somewhere.
And which family member is truly pushing he’s not guilty of a crime? Does he have some kind of security clearance? St. Joseph’s is a string of hospitals in Indiana.
Detective Wiegand’s parents are silent. Really?

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Well my opinion won't change, I completely agree with you and I unlike others see this as a terrible awful mistake.

It’s a terrible awful mistake with a fatal consequence, predicated on sheer stupidity. He didn’t want to hold her in his arms. So he sat her down on the railing or window ledge instead of putting her back down on the floor.
Remember. It was mid afternoon. It’s likely she had taken no nap. And prone to acting up when tired, as all people.

 

[they'll get you]

The thing that bothers me the most about this whole situation is the lack of focus on what happened to poor Chloe.
She fell 115 feet to her death!!
Can you even imagine how terrified that poor child must have been? And please don't kid yourself that she didn't feel any pain. She hit an awning on the way down. I'm sorry to have to re- state these awful details but they are facts. That is what happened.
SA is responsible.
And her family is acting very strangely. I want justice for Chloe.

I agree.
It wasn’t Chloe who jumped and if RC has adhered to all safety requirements and hasn’t been charged with any fault then surely it's SA. There was no oil or water on the ground, the lighting was good...SA and Winkleman both have admitted fault due to SA's sight. That's a foolish move if they wanted to fight this IMO.

Someone was negligent & if SA is colorblind then, really, who's fault is that? Not Chloe, not RC.

In my layman’s view it was only when the vision was sighted that SA was charged, RC wasn't that we know.

Accident and negligence payouts are from RC's insurance company and it's the insurance that will fight against any payments and RC should fight against any blackening of their safety as this is their livelihood.
The cruising industry is worth millions per year and a lot rides on every future passenger and IMO they will fight a lot harder and smarter that Winkleman.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Dbm

 

[katydid23]

Oh, it was Chloe who gravitated to the open window not granddad!

I don't think so. It was Chloe who ran to the bottom windows, which were ALL closed. Grandpa was the first one to look out of the open window. THEN he lifted the baby up to that window. So he was the one who chose the window---not Chloe.

 

[they'll get you]

I don’t think he sat her on the track on the window ledge. I think that was a misunderstanding. I also think the railing is metal, like brass, not wood, and that is where he sat her. Maybe with her feet on the ledge where the track is (if they could even reach!).

On the 12th of this month I'll take a close-up shot of the railing. I'd bet the farm on it being wood, not that it really matters.

 

[they'll get you]

Good post. Only thing is some older people literally can't get up from squatting. Depends on if they have arthritis...

He can squat.

 

[they'll get you]

Baby proof a cruise liner is not, who would want to worry about every step a toddler makes when you go on vacation to relax?

Honestly, I was appalled to see how close the rail was to that window, and to think SA put that baby up there, glass or no glass, is unforgivable. I got anxiety just looking at height of the window from the photo. I always stay away from the edge of piers, cliffs, etc., and never drive in the right lane going over a bridge.
No sense lamenting about how things could have been done differently to save Chloe, coulda, woulda, shoulda....Terrible tragedy.

A liner is baby proof it's just not idiot proof. Chloe was perfectly safe where she was. Perfectly safe, it's that some idiot put her in harms way.

It's against the law in Australia to leave children, dogs, anything in a hot car. Idiots still do and it's the children who suffer.
Recently we had a death of two toddlers left in a car overnight and discovered by their mother at 2 pm the next afternoon. It's summer here in Aust. Was she charged? Hell yeah - DOUBLE MURDER.
Was it a mistake after a big drink the night before? Big tragic mistake, murder is perfect IMO. Allegedly she's had boiling water poured over her already.

She'll blame addiction, SA blames eyesight. No-one wins, no-one.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Insomnia tonight. But will I regret it tomorrow!
Final decision. No more wavering for me.
Grandpa leaned out too far with the baby. That's negligent.
I can feel sorry however much I want for the family, but it wasn't safe. They're in denial.
(Of course he didn't know that would happen. Ignore I just said that.)

 

[they'll get you]

I think it was an accident. But even if he genuinely believed there was glass, that is not a reasonable belief. A reasonable person would and should have known there was not glass. Maybe not prison time, but some punishment so people understand you cannot stand children on handrailings, and if you do, *you* are responsible for the consequences.

IMO the police believed it was an accident until they saw the footage and then saw otherwise.

 

[they'll get you]

So, this is interesting. Hypothetically, if you were selected for jury duty for this case, would you be able to view the evidence empirically? Or have you already decided that this was not negligence on the part of Anello?

That lifting up a toddler to sit on a guard railing by an open window 11 stories up is a reasonable act?

Like the police it certainly could've been a tragic accident but IMO the camera caught the moment Chloe was put in harms way by stupidity. That's what the jury will see as well. The camera will make the decision easy.

 

[Aydrianna523]

IMO the police believed it was an accident until they say the footage and then saw otherwise.

Thx. That helps. I'm having trouble processing it all. I'm an emotional Grandma.

 

[they'll get you]

Life goes on.

Freedom of the Seas Ship Tracker | Satellite location view

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

She squirmed. Ok, I get it. I almost dropped a grandchild that way...

She. Should. NEVER. Have. Been PLACED. Up. That. High. That. Close. To. An. OPEN. Window.

 

[katydid23]

She squirmed. Ok, I get it. I almost dropped a grandchild that way...

Right. Squirming babies can be accidentally dropped. Which is why we don't hold them up on 11th story window ledges, in case we accidentally drop them.