Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

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See below for an illustration of the lack of hat when the offender comes into focus. The hat effect is an important distinction because propagating its legitimacy maintains part of the illusion this offender is using to hide right now. You have to see his hair because it's part of his identity, and it still looks this way.

The camera was trying to capture motion smoothly. If there is a fringe of hoodie, the piping that hides the seams, behind the offender's head while he's walking, if unable to focus, the camera will interleave frames in a manner that doesn't introduce jagginess and timing issues. It is interpreting the scene and the result is the piping of that hoodie will occasionally appear superimposed with the offender's head in a manner that makes it look like he is wearing a hoodie.
 

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It would seem that if the perpetrator / BG walked through the creek, he would have left many footprints on the ground. From that one can determine the distance and ground he covered with the girls.

Perhaps investigators have the size of the sole imprint and the tread pattern of BG's shoe but are withholding the information for the time being?

However if one travels on hard-packed soil, rocks or gravel, then you won’t be leaving too much of a trace on these compared to soft or sandy soil like that near the creek.
 
StarryStarryNight said:
I agree it’s weird. I’ve begun to question whether these witnesses actually saw BG or if they did, they saw him before he accosted the girls but not after.
My current theory...my previous 3,567 theories should now be considered secondary;)...is that BG is very familiar with the trails and the area and visits with someone there frequently. Perhaps works occasionally for farms around there. He was visiting or housesitting at one of the rural houses within a couple miles of the trails and while driving spotted the girls on the way to the trails and followed them. Saw them pull into the trailhead parking drove past and parked himself at the CPS building deciding on the spur of the moment to attack them. He had a gun and knife in the car and took those with him. He wasn’t sure an opportunity would arise. It did. He trapped the girls at the end of the bridge. I think his intent was to take the girls to either the little deer shed/shack on the south side of the creek or to a barn or out building at a nearby farm on the north side. If he had evil intent to attack them I would think someplace a little warmer would have been his plan. I can’t imagine sloshing through a freezing cold creek was his plan unless he was trying to get them somewhere inside. Anyway...the girls bolted and tried to escape by running across the creek. This sent the killer into a rage and when he finally caught Abby he killed her with his knife quickly. Libby came to her defense and the killer turned on her and a fight ensued eventually battering and injuring her much worse and eventually killing her too. By now he is so angry at them for spoiling his plans he moves them to where they are found and poses them or defiles them in some way that shocks LE when they are found. The killer is startled out of his killing trance by Libby’s phone ringing. He leaves by heading up the creek away from the bridge thinking he cannot head to his car or he will be seen. He follows the creek for awhile sometimes wading in to rinse blood off his clothes. Then leaves the creek to walk across fields or the tree line to whatever house he’s staying at. It is during this trek I think the person who helped with the first sketch saw him and decided it was “something that needed reporting”. After showering, washing or maybe burying his clothes, gun and knife. He calls someone he knows and tells them his car broke down and is parked at the CPS building. They help him retrieve his car. He stays in town a few days so it doesn’t look suspicious. A few days later he leaves town. Never has been back.
All just my thoughts and opinions...until I come up with another theory.
Feel free to point out the flaws!
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Seems like a solid theory for now. I dig it.
I think we all would like to think that Abby and Libby made a run for it at some point. It would be nice to know that they made it very difficult for BG and that during the brief escape he got muddied and soaked and hopefully in his panic left more evidence.
 
Mike Britton said:
See below for an illustration of the lack of hat when the offender comes into focus. The hat effect is an important distinction because propagating its legitimacy maintains part of the illusion this offender is using to hide right now. You have to see his hair because it's part of his identity, and it still looks this way.

The camera was trying to capture motion smoothly. If there is a fringe of hoodie, the piping that hides the seams, behind the offender's head while he's walking, if unable to focus, the camera will interleave frames in a manner that doesn't introduce jagginess and timing issues. It is interpreting the scene and the result is the piping of that hoodie will occasionally appear superimposed with the offender's head in a manner that makes it look like he is wearing a hoodie.
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Nice post.
I agree there is fringe of a hoodie. Appears to not be wearing a hat. Very difficult though to tell. For the longest time I thought he was wearing a hat.
 
JohnnyChicago said:
Nice post.
I agree there is fringe of a hoodie. Appears to not be wearing a hat. Very difficult though to tell. For the longest time I thought he was wearing a hat.
Click to expand...

People see frame 32 and think the offender is literally Doctor Doom.
 

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I am revisiting the Murder Squad podcast episode on the Delphi case. Paul Holes is one of the hosts. For those of you that are not familiar with Paul, he is responsible for helping solve the Golden State Killer case (aka Original Night Stalker/ East Area Rapist)

Some interesting points mentioned in the podcast. At one point they mention in the podcast that it is rumored that the video is "one really long video" but no one in law enforcement has confirmed that. Again rumor. Interesting though if a longer video will ever surface.

Based on the "Guys, down the hill" clip. Paul Hole's first impressions after listening to the clip.

"We have an adult male. He has two potential victims in front of him. He is taking control of the situation. We don't know if he has a weapon exposed. But we have verbal commands, "Down the Hill"
People ask how can one offender take on two victims, but when you have that type of demographic,if you will, between the victims and the offender. You can see where that adult authority can influence multiple victims to do what he wants them to do, it just makes sense. Most kids are going to listen to a man giving them verbal commands."
In listening to his voice, it is not as if he is sounding nervous or hesitating. He is telling them "down the hill"
 
Spartygirl said:
Interesting about DNA as usually when DNA conversations pop up, I bail LOL, However, I watched a show the other day talking about the Y-STR DNA and it fascinated me.
What the Y-STR DNA shows is the Male DNA -BUT- cannot pinpoint WHICH male it belongs to within a family.
Hmmmmm---so if you can pinpoint the family but there are multiple males within the family, you cannot pinpoint specifically which ONE it is. This may be the issue in this case, IMO
Of course, I am sure you all probably have heard this within the 118 Threads for Libby and Abby, but this was new info for me to learn and I found it quite interesting.
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there are two types of DNA, nuclear (this is our main DNA, it is our genetic code), and mitochondrial.

Nuclear DNA is extracted from the nucleus of the cell. It is contained in 46 chromosomes, 22 pairs of autosomes + 2 sex chromosomes, XX or XY.

STR is just a method to analyze DNA. There are others, too. Y STR is just “Y chromosome analyzed by STR”.

STR analysis - Wikipedia

Now, if there is very little material and the sample is halfway destroyed, it potentially could be so that you recovered one Y and nothing else, but highly, highly unlikely.

Y is passed from father to son potentially unaltered, although from one generation to another, there might still be mutations. They occur.

And a boy’s paternal uncle might have the same Y. But it also might be so that the mutation has occurred in the uncle. It is all random. It is a very interesting question, for genealogy, to pick up these mutations.

I don’t believe that LE have one Y and don’t know whose Y it is. Because you virtually have to pick one cell with broken nucleus and harvest that Y. If there are two or three cells, you have got other chromosomes, too.

Mitochondrial DNA is probably something they have. It is tiny ring-cell structure, and you have the same as your mother’s one. A father and a son would have different mitoDNAs.

And much as mito DNA is tiny, mitochondrias are abundant, so it is easier to obtain it.

Now, there might be one case I am thinking about. A father and a daughter’s DNAs mix. Degraded sample, contaminated with other DNAs.

You will see a mix of two DNAs that are 50% alike, plus that Y from the father. If the sample is contaminated/degraded, they may not notice this 50% difference, this is when they’d end up with this Y...If they have the DNA of the mother to compare to, they will see the difference between daughter/father more clearly.

I don’t think Delphi is such a case, but we may see it in the future cases. Or maybe JBR could be that case if the police did a good job? Who knows. The
 
Charlot123 said:
there are two types of DNA, nuclear (this is our main DNA, it is our genetic code), and mitochondrial.

Nuclear DNA is extracted from the nucleus of the cell. It is contained in 46 chromosomes, 22 pairs of autosomes + 2 sex chromosomes, XX or XY.

STR is just a method to analyze DNA. There are others, too. Y STR is just “Y chromosome analyzed by STR”.

STR analysis - Wikipedia

Now, if there is very little material and the sample is halfway destroyed, it potentially could be so that you recovered one Y and nothing else, but highly, highly unlikely.

Y is passed from father to son potentially unaltered, although from one generation to another, there might still be mutations. They occur.

And a boy’s paternal uncle might have the same Y. But it also might be so that the mutation has occurred in the uncle. It is all random. It is a very interesting question, for genealogy, to pick up these mutations.

I don’t believe that LE have one Y and don’t know whose Y it is. Because you virtually have to pick one cell with broken nucleus and harvest that Y. If there are two or three cells, you have got other chromosomes, too.

Mitochondrial DNA is probably something they have. It is tiny ring-cell structure, and you have the same as your mother’s one. A father and a son would have different mitoDNAs.

And much as mito DNA is tiny, mitochondrias are abundant, so it is easier to obtain it.

Now, there might be one case I am thinking about. A father and a daughter’s DNAs mix. Degraded sample, contaminated with other DNAs.

You will see a mix of two DNAs that are 50% alike, plus that Y from the father. If the sample is contaminated/degraded, they may not notice this 50% difference, this is when they’d end up with this Y...If they have the DNA of the mother to compare to, they will see the difference between daughter/father more clearly.

I don’t think Delphi is such a case, but we may see it in the future cases. Or maybe JBR could be that case if the police did a good job? Who knows. The
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Interesting.

"Using genealogy to identify a suspect is not so different from, say, looking for the birth parents of an adoptee. The process begins with a DNA sample, uploaded to a database like GEDmatch. In most cases, the only matches will be distant cousins, but skilled genealogists are able to map out family trees by cross-referencing shared bits of DNA with public records, obituaries, and social-media profiles. In criminal cases, law enforcement may also contact family members for information or additional DNA to narrow down possible hits. “There’s a lot of follow-up that has to take place,” says CeCe Moore, the chief genetic genealogist for Parabon NanoLabs, whose team has made about 70 identifications for law enforcement since it formed after the arrest of the Golden State Killer suspect."
 
Paul Hole's states that there is probably more audio than the "guys, down the hill" He says, "they are likely to have more recordings." "My guess is after this point (the "Guys down the hill" statement), you are hearing the girls speaking and the police do not want to put that out there" Which makes sense. I don't want to hear the girls pleading or crying.

Jensen " My biggest question is why hold that bit of information back? "Guys" has cadence and is an identifier. Why didn't they just release that in the beginning?"
 
stattlich1 said:
Right. This killer very well may have no prior felony or misdemeanor arrests, no prior arrests at all, and no DNA on file. He could be a first time criminal. I think he knew the girls, stalked them for quite some time, knew they'd be at the bridge that day, did what he needed to do to save his, and possibly someone else's reputation, all meticulously planned in advance so as to escape being caught....I think it'd be highly unlikely a guy would go straight to murder unless the stakes were high.

Of course, I still could be persuaded he is a serial killer, but the idea that he lives, or did live, in Delphi, along with numerous other things LE has said about him, kind of makes me think otherwise.

Lastly, possibly a drug/alcohol induced frenzied murder, but I think a situation such as this would have been solved by now.

MOO
Click to expand...
With you 100%.
 
JohnnyChicago said:
Paul Hole's states that there is probably more audio than the "guys, down the hill" He says, "they are likely to have more recordings." "My guess is after this point (the "Guys down the hill" statement), you are hearing the girls speaking and the police do not want to put that out there" Which makes sense. I don't want to hear the girls pleading or crying.

Jensen " My biggest question is why hold that bit of information back? "Guys" has cadence and is an identifier. Why didn't they just release that in the beginning?"
Click to expand...

LE made a statement that there was conversation recorded leading up to the attack. It was normal conversation between the girls. Asked if the actual attack was caught on the recording, they responded negative.

"Guys?" came out of left field. Maybe it wasn't originally included because needed to be cleaned up?
 
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