Found Deceased AL - Paighton Houston, 29, left bar with 2 men, Birmingham, 20 Dec 2019 #4

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momrids6 said:
Ok- this vitrious humour. After 2 weeks, is it still around to test? and do they analyze hair from root to end for this? Supposedly hair is like a timeline of use?
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@momrids6. I honestly don’t know. But Safari is my friend and I’ll try to find out. Insert smiley face.

ETA. In my experience with autopsies the hair was not tested for drug use. We did submit tissue and fluid samples when appropriate for testing.
 
cpeacock1 said:
Here’s a fairly simple explanation of toxicology studies. Also states what specimens are collected for certain types of death.

Toxicology: How It’s Done
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Wow, great encyclopedia's worth of toxicology knowledge.

This answered a question rumbling around in my mind about how they were basically definitive in reports that (ughh, name is not coming to mind), oh yes, Shannon Gilbert last name? associated with LISK case was found to not have succumbed to a drug overdose after being found after quite some time.

Please let me know if I am wrong, i will take no offense. It seems they could determine extents of drug use and deposits from highly expensive, specific, arduous, testings, but these measures are most likely not going to be employed for sadly the average person who is suspected as an OD victim with a history of hard use. In reality, not that it is right, it probably is dependent on how prominent a person is or perhaps how sensationalized a case is, and the circumstances of a case, more to rule out, when the case involves more sinister motives, than simply an accidental OD.
 
gitana1 said:
...RSBM...
Post-mortem clinical pharmacology
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From the link:

"...The mere presence of a drug, or its metabolites, in post-mortem tissue can be sufficient to reinforce suspicions of the link between the drug and the death. The conviction in 2000 of the English General Practitioner Dr Harold Shipman for the murder of 15 of his patients rested in part on the sudden demise of a group of otherwise healthy patients, for the most part elderly women, and in part on the detection of morphine in skeletal muscle from the exhumed bodies of a subset of them, in the absence of evidence that they had been prescribed morphine or been in the habit of taking opiates [12]. ..."

One victim, Kathleen Grundy, died June 24, 1998. Her body was interred just 5 weeks before being exhumed in August. Diamorphine was found in her body. "... a post-mortem revealed that she had died of a morphine overdose, administered within three hours of her death, precisely within the timeframe of Shipman's visit to her. ... " from
Dr. Harold Shipman | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers
 
ReckoningDay said:
Ok, so the latest news may make it seem more likely that there was possible drug use. (Although we can't determine for sure.) So that is leading me to some practical questions. Can you fine folks help me make a list of possible reasons someone NOT guilty of harming PH, would go the effort of moving her body then burying her?

I'd like feedback of both why a friend would do this, or why a stranger would do this. It just seems very extreme, when people who OD are saved ever day by having emergency medication administered. I feel that there is still a huge piece of the puzzle missing. Seems that it won't be simply a relapse/OD.

I asked everyone in my family how they would react if they were with a friend who OD, or partying with a stranger who OD. Not one could think of any scenario in which they would bury the victim.
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I think it’s possible that IF this is an “OD/Panic/Bury” situation, that the person(s) involved:

1) May be worried about going to prison for drugs/manslaughter, if they provided the drugs, particularly if the drugs were tainted.

2) May have warrants out/records for other crimes and may be worried about going back to jail/prison.

3) May not want other people to know about their own drug use, including LE.

Those are some of the main reasons I can think of off the top of my head.
 
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I found this that may be helpful.
Post-mortem clinical pharmacology

There is no reliable or obvious connection between concentrations measured in life and subsequent to death. Consequently, concentrations measured after death cannot generally be interpreted to yield concentrations present before death. The definition of lethal concentrations is extremely difficult. For rigour, it is necessary to assign a series of deaths to the DID and DID-not categories independent of the drug concentrations, and examine how the concentrations differ between the two groups. Usually there will be a broad overlap, and a correspondingly wide range of uncertainty in deciding whether a concentration found after death caused the death. Post-mortem concentrations have been over-interpreted in the past, and good evidence should be required before ‘lethal concentrations’ are defined in the future.
SandyQLS said:
From the link:

"...The mere presence of a drug, or its metabolites, in post-mortem tissue can be sufficient to reinforce suspicions of the link between the drug and the death. The conviction in 2000 of the English General Practitioner Dr Harold Shipman for the murder of 15 of his patients rested in part on the sudden demise of a group of otherwise healthy patients, for the most part elderly women, and in part on the detection of morphine in skeletal muscle from the exhumed bodies of a subset of them, in the absence of evidence that they had been prescribed morphine or been in the habit of taking opiates [12]. ..."

One victim, Kathleen Grundy, died June 24, 1998. Her body was interred just 5 weeks before being exhumed in August. Diamorphine was found in her body. "... a post-mortem revealed that she had died of a morphine overdose, administered within three hours of her death, precisely within the timeframe of Shipman's visit to her. ... " from
Dr. Harold Shipman | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers
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thanks for pointing that out. It was so much to read so I just posted the conclusion yet what you posted explains a lot as well. I tried to read this all with an 8 and 6 year old calling mama mama mama
 
FrostedGlass said:
It's been reported that her body, when found, was still intact. I follow the Najah Ferrell case (with the amputated foot) so my mind went there with this case. Maybe "still intact" means no signs of trauma?
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^^bbm

Actually -- I think this statement about the body being "intact" might be misunderstood or taken out of context.

If you watched the video broadcast of the DA that was being interviewed from the burial site, she said something about the body was located wrapped up inside a hole which led to a follow-up question by another reporter and she expanded to the body was intact and wrapped in a cloth.

Those were the actual words by the DA and I don't think it was intended to take on any special investigative meaning.

MOO
 
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Heroine said:
I found this that may be helpful.
Post-mortem clinical pharmacology

There is no reliable or obvious connection between concentrations measured in life and subsequent to death. Consequently, concentrations measured after death cannot generally be interpreted to yield concentrations present before death. The definition of lethal concentrations is extremely difficult. For rigour, it is necessary to assign a series of deaths to the DID and DID-not categories independent of the drug concentrations, and examine how the concentrations differ between the two groups. Usually there will be a broad overlap, and a correspondingly wide range of uncertainty in deciding whether a concentration found after death caused the death. Post-mortem concentrations have been over-interpreted in the past, and good evidence should be required before ‘lethal concentrations’ are defined in the future.

thanks for pointing that out. It was so much to read so I just posted the conclusion yet what you posted explains a lot as well. I tried to read this all with an 8 and 6 year old calling mama mama mama
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My curiosity was about how long metabolites last in tissue after death. I did not look further into Shipman's other exhumed bodies, but apparently morphine was still present at 5 weeks in tissue, presumed as the metabolite of diamorphine (heroin) in Grundy's case.
 
I've been trying to look up Bessemer court dockets and I'm having no luck! Could be because I'm really under the weather, could someone link me where to search?
 
I’m recalling from quite a while back here that there was a time when batches of contaminated heroin was making it’s rounds and people were dying. Anyone remember that? I wonder how prevalent that is now, and if there are any recent reports of this. I’m sure it’s likely that this still does occur. I wonder if there is a bad batch going around there.
 
margarita25 said:
I think it’s possible that IF this is an “OD/Panic/Bury” situation, that the person(s) involved:

1) May be worried about going to prison for drugs/manslaughter, if they provided the drugs, particularly if the drugs were tainted.

2) May have warrants out/records for other crimes and may be worried about going back to jail/prison.

3) May not want other people to know about their own drug use, including LE.

Those are some of the main reasons I can think of off the top of my head.
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I am going to say, that someone has to be pretty hard core psychopath to bury someone who just died of an OD.

Even folks who have some stupid warrant out for arrest, or whatever, are more likely to leave her somewhere and call 911. Rather than look for a place to bury a body.
 
Artis said:
If she did OD, I think she knew who she was with and they sent the next to indicate that she didn't.

It's hard to believe that if someone ODs the people with them would be so stupid as to panic and try to hide the body. However, we know there's a lot of stupid out there. I don't know what kind of legal trouble one could get in for being with someone who overdosed but, if that's what happened, they're definitely in trouble now.

I can't help but wonder if the tox report is going to turn up fentanyl. As if addicts aren't in enough danger, that stuff has brought the danger to a whole new level.
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The problem with fentanyl right now is that it's being distributed in the form of counterfeit pharmaceuticals complete with phony tablet stamp and scoring. A victim may believe they are taking oxycontin and toxicology is coming back with accidental OD by fentanyl. We've literally had mass or joint funerals with 4-5 classmates at a time coming up dead after a party. It's a real epidemic and tragedy nation wide.
 
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