Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #14

[nhmemorymaker]

Keep in mind I'm not a mod here, but I believe we're supposed to avoid posting full names of people who are not POI's/not missing as much as possible, especially when they have not been speaking to the press in the case and not been discussed in news articles relevant to this case. For example, Lori's parents have never been named in MSM. Their names may be found in obituaries or other online documents or possibly even in very old news articles unrelated to the current missing children case. That doesn't mean we can post Lori's parents' names here just because we can find their names from a legit MSM source. That would be sleuthing family members. We are not allowed to sleuth family members openly here. We are only allowed to sleuth the POIs/Suspects/Missing. And I also believe we are supposed to use initials as much as possible for the main case players that are discussed in the media and are not POIs/not the missing children. That said, I prefer to err on the side of caution when it come to the rules here. I also try to think about how I would feel if my BIL was shot to death by his estranged wife's brother and then my nephew and his sister/daughter of the estranged wife subsequently disappeared-- how would I feel about having my name and personal details posted on a crime message board with insinuations that I know something or have something to do with it all? I'm not perfect, but I try very hard to treat others as I would want to be treated. As always, MOO (My Opinion Only).

This helps a lot, Gardner... I think I went out of bounds a few times--but more with the previous 2016 case, where the woman who was found in the reservoir. But, for example, MB and/or CR or SCC--- So, i feel i want to really know more about them...but really shouldn't ask questions or dig too deep?? I get the parents (though I must admit their lives are intriguing to try to figure out!) Thanks very much for your time and explanation....

 

[Tortoise]

They are awaiting the "end of days" as predicted by the group with which they are affiliated. Their prophecy and plans are based around their beliefs, which have been a part of Chad's life for decades and Lori's for a brief time now. Based upon what we know about them and (if you sleuth around to learn about the AVOW and other groups, you will find these visions have been going on for decades now... there are many others who came before Chad Daybell) we know that many are/have been literally preparing for the "end of days". Land is owned and the "prophecy" calls for the 144,000 to hide out in the Rocky Mountains until the earthquakes have ceased. So, the kids would be hiding out likely based upon what we can learn about their beliefs. This is all MOO. I have spent a good deal of time learning about the movement, their beliefs, some who used to be a part of the group(s), and the historical actions on those beliefs. Many actions taken by those who believe this stuff have been motivated by those beliefs so much so that they spend their entire lives gathering food and weapons, obtaining land, etc. So, I do believe it is possible that beliefs can guide people like LD and CD to do many things. I could be entirely incorrect, i know; however, i do not believe we should overlook their beliefs in theorizing.

Why would this need to be hidden from police, and Colby, and other concerned parties?

Why would Lori need to cut all ties with Colby and her new grandbaby?

Why would Tylee cut ties with her brother Colby?

Why would Lori not be with JJ and Tylee?

in your opinion of course.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

For those that think the kids are in hiding, my question is: what reason is there for Lori to have them in hiding? She said she didn’t want JJ, Tylee is like 17 and there was no custody battle. Seems like an awful lot of trouble for nothing

I think they could be in hiding for a couple of reasons... Their minds have already been manipulated to be part of the End of Life stuff and they want them around for that, but more importantly they know too much about a lot of previous deaths!!

 

[dog.gone.cute]

February 10,2020

Cellphone of missing Idaho teen found with mother, source says

Cult mother Lori Vallow had her missing daughter's cell phone | Daily Mail Online

Missing Idaho girl’s phone reportedly found with mother Lori Vallow in Hawaii

We have been talking about this same cell phone and a "ping" in Rexbug Idaho since December 24, 2019 see link below

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article238688373.html

So now we have Tylee's phone in Hawaii now .

Where is the girl who should be holding this cell pone in her hand ;like all 17 year olds?

RBM: Exactly !

I totally understand that LE/D.A. wants to have all their ducks in a row before charges, arrests ...
But COME ON ... this 17 year old, along with her seven year old brother, have not been seen in over 4 months, and the "MOM" has her daughter's cell phone?

I sure would like to know how LV spun her "story" with LE on that one.

MOO !

 

[Ohmeohmy]

My youngest daughter is 22. I have never seen her without her cellphone within 5 feet of her, ever since she got her first cell phone, 10 years ago.

The fact that Lori Daybell had Tylee's phone is troubling to me.

Totally agree. There is a reason we as parents had to all invest in unlimited data plans for our teenagers.

 

[Mitch1]

For me at least, it seems like Lori always speaks in half truths: like the text she sent to Charles sons, what she told Colby, what she told the police officers when they interviewed her-she admitted that Charles claimed she was crazy (just in case the Police look into things)she supposedly didn’t have minor children-so I guess what I’m getting at is that when she told a friend that it would be easier to drive her kids off a cliff, I think it was another half truth, she really just meant them and not her! This is just one of the things in my opinion that leads me to think they are not alive, that and she has shown no remorse for having others murdered and no one has seen the kids and why text Tylee’s friends back pretending to be Tylee

The most dangerous lie is a lie that has a little truth to it.

 

[holsen]

They are awaiting the "end of days" as predicted by the group with which they are affiliated. Their prophecy and plans are based around their beliefs, which have been a part of Chad's life for decades and Lori's for a brief time now. Based upon what we know about them and (if you sleuth around to learn about the AVOW and other groups, you will find these visions have been going on for decades now... there are many others who came before Chad Daybell) we know that many are/have been literally preparing for the "end of days". Land is owned and the "prophecy" calls for the 144,000 to hide out in the Rocky Mountains until the earthquakes have ceased. So, the kids would be hiding out likely based upon what we can learn about their beliefs. This is all MOO. I have spent a good deal of time learning about the movement, their beliefs, some who used to be a part of the group(s), and the historical actions on those beliefs. Many actions taken by those who believe this stuff have been motivated by those beliefs so much so that they spend their entire lives gathering food and weapons, obtaining land, etc. So, I do believe it is possible that beliefs can guide people like LD and CD to do many things. I could be entirely incorrect, i know; however, i do not believe we should overlook their beliefs in theorizing.

Are you saying that there are a large number of people who have been preparing for the "end of days" with the date of July, 22, 2020 for literally years? If so, this means that this date didn't originate with Chad?

 

[Portiz34]

Or you can ask me it's almost 9am

Possible but unlikely in my opinion. There are so many ways to legally buy guns in Idaho and Arizona that there is little need for traffickers. It's like saying he was trafficking dried milk for the preppers - possible but there really is no need because it is freely available for legal purchase.

I think it's a combo of all of it. MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

It won’t let me read it as I’m not in the USA. What does it say please?

The only comments that are new are an initial paragraph stating that LE "is looking at an insurance policy" she had at work. And a final sentence saying they are "expecting results of the autopsy any day now". Every thing else was just recap of the highlights of what we know.

 

[kye0001]

The only comments that are new are an initial paragraph stating that LE "is looking at an insurance policy" she had at work. And a final sentence saying they are "expecting results of the autopsy any day now". Every thing else was just recap of the highlights of what we know.

Thanks for posting it. It feels like they’re putting the pressure on. I cannot wait until the autopsy results come back MOO

 

[Ohmeohmy]

February 10,2020
UPDATE
https://mycourts.idaho.gov/odysseyportal/Home/WorkspaceMode?p=0

02/12/2020 Civil Hearing


Case Information

CV33-20-0088 | In the Matter of the Guardianship and Conservatorship of: Joshua Vallow, A Minor Child.


Case Number
CV33-20-0088

Court
Madison County Magistrate Court

Judicial Officer
Eddins, Faren Z.

File Date
01/29/2020

Case Type
G3a- Joint Petition Guard/Conserv (Minor) Same Party

Case Status
Active - Pending

Party
Subject
Vallow, Joshua



Petitioner
Woodcock, Ethel



Active Attorneys

Lead Attorney
May, Kyle Richard
Retained

Petitioner
Woodcock, Larry



Active Attorneys

Lead Attorney
May, Kyle Richard
Retained

Events and Hearings

• 01/29/2020 New Case - Both Guardian/Conserv (Minor - Same Party)
  
  
• 01/29/2020 Family Law Case Information Sheet
  
  Comment
  FAMILY CASE LAW INFO SHEET
  
  
• 01/29/2020 GC Petition for Appointment of Guardian/Conservator
  
  Comment
  Ex Parte Petition
  
  
• 01/29/2020 GC Petition for Appointment of Guardian/Conservator
  
  Comment
  Petition for Appointment
  
  
• 01/29/2020 Acceptance of Appointment
  
  Comment
  ACCEPTANCE OF APPOINTMENT
  
  
• 01/29/2020 Acceptance of Appointment
  
  Comment
  ACCEPTANCE OF APPOINTMENT
  
  
• 01/30/2020 Order of Assignment TCA
  
  
• 02/05/2020 Acceptance of Appointment as Guardian Ad Litem
  
  Comment
  Acceptance of Appointment as Guardian ad Litem
  
  
• 02/06/2020 Notice of Hearing
  
  Comment
  Notice of Hearing
  
  
• 02/06/2020 Notice of Hearing
  
  Comment
  Notice of Hearing
  
  
• 02/12/2020 Civil Hearing
  
  Judicial Officer
  Eddins, Faren Z.
  
  Hearing Time
  04:45 PM
  
• 03/04/2020 Civil Hearing
  
  Judicial Officer
  Eddins, Faren Z.
  
  Hearing Time
  9:00 AM
  
  Comment
  Guardianship
  

 

[caseface]

Why would this need to be hidden from police, and Colby, and other concerned parties?

Why would Lori need to cut all ties with Colby and her new grandbaby?

Why would Tylee cut ties with her brother Colby?

Why would she not be with JJ and Tylee?

in your opinion of course.

All valid questions that i have no sure answers for. Only Lori has the answers to this as we know little of the inner-workings of her personal relationships. As a fierce libertarian, i'm sure she wants nothing to do with the police and she doesn't want her children taken out of hiding with the coming of the "end of days"? Perhaps those mentioned are not part of the 144,000 (in Lori's mind). And i am not sure Tylee would be cooperating with this effort fully. She may wish to see her brother Colby. It's hard to say anything for sure because Lori's beliefs resemble some sort of psychosis and may very well co-exist with mental illness. As a result, her behaviors may not make sense; however, psychosis, mental illness, and strange behaviors do not equal child murder automatically. There is no evidence that the children have been murdered as of yet and it is our hope that they are found. The children could have been "kidnapped" by their mother and forced into hiding, they could have gone willingly into hiding, and one or more could be deceased/trafficked, etc. So, of course the religious angle is not the only angle; however, the oft-repeated views about Lori being a money-chasing, botox injected child murderer is currently only based upon hearsay and conjecture. There is more circumstantial evidence that she might be involved in the killing of several husbands but we simply don't have a solid motive on why she would kill her kids. We do have a pretty good narrative involving the religious angle and, as a result, a little guidance on why we should be looking for the children. If they are alive, they need us to not give up hope; they probably want out of whatever circumstance they are in. We must continue to develop theories in which the kids are alive. Perhaps these narratives and an understanding of their beliefs will help lead us to their location, i.e. Rocky Mountains.

Personally, I am about 51% to 49% on the kids being in hiding vs. the alternative. Without some sort of further evidence, it is difficult to say anything for sure about this case. So many lies and "prophecies" and deaths, it makes the head spin.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Totally agree. There is a reason we as parents had to all invest in unlimited data plans for our teenagers.

If Tylee is still alive...she probably has a different phone in a different name. With LE all over them.......why in heaven's name would Tylee be allowed to use that phone that is readily trackable. If she is alive she probably can only do games anyway!!

 

[carbuff]

They are awaiting the "end of days" as predicted by the group with which they are affiliated. Their prophecy and plans are based around their beliefs, which have been a part of Chad's life for decades and Lori's for a brief time now. Based upon what we know about them and (if you sleuth around to learn about the AVOW and other groups, you will find these visions have been going on for decades now... there are many others who came before Chad Daybell) we know that many are/have been literally preparing for the "end of days". Land is owned and the "prophecy" calls for the 144,000 to hide out in the Rocky Mountains until the earthquakes have ceased. So, the kids would be hiding out likely based upon what we can learn about their beliefs. This is all MOO. I have spent a good deal of time learning about the movement, their beliefs, some who used to be a part of the group(s), and the historical actions on those beliefs. Many actions taken by those who believe this stuff have been motivated by those beliefs so much so that they spend their entire lives gathering food and weapons, obtaining land, etc. So, I do believe it is possible that beliefs can guide people like LD and CD to do many things. I could be entirely incorrect, i know; however, i do not believe we should overlook their beliefs in theorizing.

I generally agree with you.

Most of what I know about doomsday cults is from the Church Universal and Triumphant, whose doomsday ideas overlaps heavily with the LDS beyond-AVOW mentality. The Church Universal had an underground complex in a small town in Montana one valley over from where my family lives. Their doomsday fizzled but many of them still live there. You see them in the grocery stores looking bewildered, like they're still not quite sure what happened.

What I got out of what I could see in the AVOW forum was that they had a multiphase plan for surviving increasingly bad times. I formed the impression that besides the bunkers, there are areas where they plan to gather while they wait to see if this really is the beginning of the end--from there they can retreat into their deep-in-the-mountains compounds if necessary, or if the storm blows over, they can go back to their regular lives. There also seemed to be a lot of talk about how important the young people were to the plans. There seemed to be a LOT of talk about how the government was going to betray them.

So I think there's a good chance the kids are alive and safe, but that LV is not ever going to tell where they are.

 

[carbuff]

Are you saying that there are a large number of people who have been preparing for the "end of days" with the date of July, 22, 2020 for literally years? If so, this means that this date didn't originate with Chad?

I'm not sure about that specific date, but the general outlines of the end of days are not only widespread among LDS fringe, but also Protestant, Catholic, and even a couple of Jewish sects.

 

[Lionsanddandelions]

Is Auntie the same person as the (I think unattributed) "friend", who has previously famously talked about Lori's talking about driving everybody including the kids off a cliff??

If not, I note this means that Lori has been telling more than one person this. Perhaps multiple people.

SbM for focus

I have become a bit of a Justin Lum parrot on this thread, but he just posted another comment on his update about the photog revoking permission for photos. In that comment, he clarifies that aunt AC was a SECOND person we know Lori made the cliff comment to.

So let's look at the history Lori has of referring to Tylee as being better off dead/already dead:
* she told 2 people that when the world ends, she'd drive off a cliff with her kids
* in court documents related to the custody battle with joe ryan, lori said tylee would be better off dead than even so much as visiting joe
* LE says lori has told at least one person that tylee died a year before her dad (demonstrably untrue, but relevant here)

Pattern much? Very concerning she could so nonchalantly talk about dead children.

ETA: more on the cliff comment ... I have heard people say that if the SHTF, they'd off *themselves* rather than struggle through the world ending. I have never heard anyone say they'd off their kids, too, as if the kids are just extensions of the parent with no choice in their survival and no alternate guardian options. This further underscores the way Lori has viewed her children for a *long* time, IMO.

 

[Gardener1850]

It seems to me (from the fact she didn't cancel the storage when she disappeared) that she had an end-game need for the storage of kids items she wanted the storage people to dispose of before she imagined police would get to find out about it, and he had a need for temporary storage during October that wouldn't be linked to his name. Guns and vehicle modification. Now who was shot at from a Jeep? I admit the conclusion could be confirmation bias on my part.

The thing that interests me is the tire removal. I've just done a little research and tire diameter on a Jeep Wrangler Sport 2018 (all-terrain) is 31.5". This is the screen shot of the tire being wheeled into the unit.
View attachment 231205 View attachment 231206
Lori Daybell abandoned a storage unit in Rexburg full of children's items | East Idaho News

Does that look like it could be roughly 31.5" in comparison to his legs?

I can see a person removing seats to hide down in the back of the Jeep, but why remove the spare tire from the back? Is it so that the person could pop open the rear window and shoot through the back without the tire obstructing the range of the gun?

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #13

What other reason could there be for storing a rear seat and tire? Is it even possible for these to be in the storage overnight on the 2nd/3rd October and then replaced in the Jeep before it was located, impounded and by the time the above photo was taken? I don't think it's cctv from the shooting, it doesn't look like it's on the road.

I don't think Cox had to necessarily be the shooter. He could have hired someone or called in a favor from a fellow psycopath. Do we know if he was ever in the military?

Just my 2p's worth and moo.

In regards to the question of why take the spare tire off of the Jeep: I did some searching and looked at a few videos of people removing the spare from a 2018 Jeep Wrangler. After the spare is removed there is a rack attached to the tailgate that the tire was on. Remove that rack and there is a rectangular vent under it. Pop out the vent and you could have a nice little window in the back of the Jeep tailgate. Here's what the vent can look like from inside the Jeep (stock image from a bing search):

2018 jeep wrangler sport tailgate vent hole - Bing images

Some companies sell custom covers for the hole for people who want to leave the spare tire off: https://www.amazon.com/removed-vent...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584482461738903&psc=1

My theory is that the shooter removed the spare tire, the carrier for the tire as well as the rectangle vent piece, and also removed the back seat so that someone could lay down and shoot through the tailgate "window". This could also explain why the shooter missed as I think it would be difficult to hit a moving target with that method while the Jeep was moving too. But if I'm right then it's pretty scary how close they got to taking BB out.

As soon as they realized they missed and that BB possibly saw the vehicle they would have wanted to hide the spare that they had left back at the townhouse garage in Rexburg. Whoever was down in AZ with the Jeep could call and tell someone in Rexburg (Lori and a man who resembles Alex) to take that stuff to storage and hide it while they drove back. That would be the Oct 2nd visit in the middle of the day. Next, when no police came knocking right away, they would want to get the tire and seat out of storage as soon as possible to put back on the Jeep. That would be the reason for Oct 3rd visit to remove items they had just placed there the day before. MOO.

 

[Tortoise]

All valid questions that i have no sure answers for. Only Lori has the answers to this as we know little of the inner-workings of her personal relationships. As a fierce libertarian, i'm sure she wants nothing to do with the police and she doesn't want her children taken out of hiding with the coming of the "end of days"? Perhaps those mentioned are not part of the 144,000 (in Lori's mind). And i am not sure Tylee would be cooperating with this effort fully. She may wish to see her brother Colby. It's hard to say anything for sure because Lori's beliefs resemble some sort of psychosis and may very well co-exist with mental illness. As a result, her behaviors may not make sense; however, psychosis, mental illness, and strange behaviors do not equal child murder automatically. There is no evidence that the children have been murdered as of yet and it is our hope that they are found. The children could have been "kidnapped" by their mother and forced into hiding, they could have gone willingly into hiding, and one or more could be deceased/trafficked, etc. So, of course the religious angle is not the only angle; however, the oft-repeated views about Lori being a money-chasing, botox injected child murderer is currently only based upon hearsay and conjecture. There is more circumstantial evidence that she might be involved in the killing of several husbands but we simply don't have a solid motive on why she would kill her kids. We do have a pretty good narrative involving the religious angle and, as a result, a little guidance on why we should be looking for the children. If they are alive, they need us to not give up hope; they probably want out of whatever circumstance they are in. We must continue to develop theories in which the kids are alive. Perhaps these narratives and an understanding of their beliefs will help lead us to their location, i.e. Rocky Mountains.

Personally, I am about 51% to 49% on the kids being in hiding vs. the alternative. Without some sort of further evidence, it is difficult to say anything for sure about this case. So many lies and "prophecies" and deaths, it makes the head spin.

Thanks for your reply.

I think we do have a motive. Lori said she didn't want the children - plural, one year ago. I don't think it needs to be any more complex than that. See the delight on her face once free of them, weeks after they disappeared.

Just like she said she would kill Charles. There was no reason she couldn't divorce him, but she didn't. He was killed in front of her and we saw her laughing afterwards. I don't buy the self-defense explanation for it. And neither do I accept Tammy died of natural causes a matter of days before Chad and Lori's marriage. He's playing the ukulele and figuratively speaking dancing on Tammy's grave.

 

[BigAl16]

They are awaiting the "end of days" as predicted by the group with which they are affiliated. Their prophecy and plans are based around their beliefs, which have been a part of Chad's life for decades and Lori's for a brief time now. Based upon what we know about them and (if you sleuth around to learn about the AVOW and other groups, you will find these visions have been going on for decades now... there are many others who came before Chad Daybell) we know that many are/have been literally preparing for the "end of days". Land is owned and the "prophecy" calls for the 144,000 to hide out in the Rocky Mountains until the earthquakes have ceased. So, the kids would be hiding out likely based upon what we can learn about their beliefs. This is all MOO. I have spent a good deal of time learning about the movement, their beliefs, some who used to be a part of the group(s), and the historical actions on those beliefs. Many actions taken by those who believe this stuff have been motivated by those beliefs so much so that they spend their entire lives gathering food and weapons, obtaining land, etc. So, I do believe it is possible that beliefs can guide people like LD and CD to do many things. I could be entirely incorrect, i know; however, i do not believe we should overlook their beliefs in theorizing.

This all fits except for CD and LD hiding out in Hawaii at this point. Why do the kids need to be in the compound 9 months before the SHTF day, yet Chad and Lori don't? (Not to mention why aren't Chad's other kids here too?)

 

[BigAl16]

Fremont County Sheriff's office investigating Tammy Daybell's life insurance policy
Feb 6, 2020 Updated Feb 7, 2020

FREMONT COUNTY – The Fremont County Sheriff’s Office is investigating a life insurance policy the late Tammy Daybell took out at her work with the Sugar-Salem Central Elementary School. Tammy had worked there as a librarian.

“She did have an insurance policy from her work. I don’t know how much it was for,” said Fremont County Sheriff Len Humphries.

<modsnip: Snipped to comply with 10% copyright rule>

I noticed this article said that Chad claimed to make 30K per year from his writing. For a single fact that sure has a bunch of errors. IIRC, we all saw the 30K number on an application to rent a home in Hawaii, right? I think it was saying that was the income from Chad and Lori and it would be from all sources of income. Yes, the only source of income they probably have is Chad's writing, but it doesn't spell that out. Also, it was asking for a monthly income wasn't it? So he said 30K per month, not year. (A lie, but that's another issue.)