OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #54

[Puzzles8]

dbm

 

[rsd1200]

Does anyone actually think DH is believable?

I think she may have some "issues".

 

[Cool Cats]

Does anyone actually think DH is believable?

I believe her that she was confronted by LE about what happened to Savage's house. I think LE letting her know they were seeing her as a person of interest in that crime is one reason she would say that LE was trying to set her up for the Rhoden murders. The timeline fits with her being questioned by LE and then her postings about Rhoden evidence being planted at her house etc...

But most of her postings are exaggerations or fiction to support her narrative.

Before anyone says anything, she does have something to do with the murder investigation because she submitted several tips, she could be a witness at trial, you never know.

However, I won't keep posting about her without MSM links....I get that we need her to be in the MSM news.

 

[Chelly]

I think she may have some "issues".

That is a polite way of expressing what afflicts her.

 

[Betty P]

I believe her that she was confronted by LE about what happened to Savage's house. I think LE letting her know they were seeing her as a person of interest in that crime is one reason she would say that LE was trying to set her up for the Rhoden murders. The timeline fits with her being questioned by LE and then her postings about Rhoden evidence being planted at her house etc...

But most of her postings are exaggerations or fiction to support her narrative.

Before anyone says anything, she does have something to do with the murder investigation because she submitted several tips, she could be a witness at trial, you never know.

However, I won't keep posting about her without MSM links....I get that we need her to be in the MSM news.

JMO, I don't think she needs to be in the MSM news. She's not relevant to the case and I suspect the W's defense attorneys are trying to use her as a "red herring". She wasn't involved in the Rhoden murders.

No offense intended, but we've had a good look at the state's evidence against the Wags. It's very solid, including a lot of recordings of their phone calls, etc. At this point, there isn't any good reason to help the killer Wagners get out of jail.

 

[Cool Cats]

JMO, I don't think she needs to be in the MSM news. She's not relevant to the case and I suspect the W's defense attorneys are trying to use her as a "red herring". She wasn't involved in the Rhoden murders.

No offense intended, but we've had a good look at the state's evidence against the Wags. It's very solid, including a lot of recordings of their phone calls, etc. At this point, there isn't any good reason to help the killer Wagners get out of jail.

Very interesting that you say this:

"I suspect the W's defense attorneys are trying to use her as a "red herring"

You have mentioned before different times you think the defense is playing distracting techniques or trying to delay things. Like wanting the court to hire a discovery coordinator and complaining they didn't get items of discovery etc...

It was done again last month when Billy's attorney Collins told reporter Madeline Mitchell, Cincinnati Enquirer:

"Collins said the Wagner family attorneys also have yet to receive the government’s discovery documents. "

Point is, it is interesting to see how the defense attorneys are handling things, like Jake's attorneys filing a motion to get ballistic evidence and expert shoe testimony thrown out. According to a reporter the prosecution has shell casings from both the Rhoden and Wagner properties.

When I see the discovery documents saying ballistic evidence or shoe print evidence I only think of evidence from the crime scenes but ballistic evidence and shoe print evidence can come from other places.
I bet there is shoe print evidence from Wagner family properties as well.

...2 Cents...

 

[Betty P]

Very interesting that you say this:

"I suspect the W's defense attorneys are trying to use her as a "red herring"

You have mentioned before different times you think the defense is playing distracting techniques or trying to delay things. Like wanting the court to hire a discovery coordinator and complaining they didn't get items of discovery etc...

It was done again last month when Billy's attorney Collins told reporter Madeline Mitchell, Cincinnati Enquirer:

"Collins said the Wagner family attorneys also have yet to receive the government’s discovery documents. "

Point is, it is interesting to see how the defense attorneys are handling things, like Jake's attorneys filing a motion to get ballistic evidence and expert shoe testimony thrown out. According to a reporter the prosecution has shell casings from both the Rhoden and Wagner properties.

When I see the discovery documents saying ballistic evidence or shoe print evidence I only think of evidence from the crime scenes but ballistic evidence and shoe print evidence can come from other places.
I bet there is shoe print evidence from Wagner family properties as well.

...2 Cents...

Yes, the defense attorneys know to use "red herrings" in these cases. It's common. It keeps the prosecution attorneys busy and distracts the jury. JMO, the Wagners have been playing this game in social media forums since the first week of the murders. Years later, they're still out there tossing out the names of other people who have no motive nor capability of committing murders.

Prepare to see defense attorneys pull all kinds of tricks once the trials get started. Most of their claims, as now, will be false. They're also delaying the trial as long as possible in hopes the national and world news media will forget the case and fail to cover it when it finally comes to trial.

They're just trying to run out the clock and "earn" as much taxpayer funds as possible. I don't plan to help them in those endeavors.

If Pike County jurors end up being duped or bribed into letting any of the Wagners go free, the region will suffer terribly. More innocent people will die.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Right, GW4 wasn't talking to himself so it wouldn't make sense to use
the tapes only against him. Perhaps, as you mention, it is simply GW4's attorneys putting an emphasis on their client's recorded conversations, thus, they want the Journal Entry to reflect this. Just a matter of attorney style.

If there is no hearing scheduled for GW4 by the end of next month, after the other 3 hearings, then something is up. He would not need to attend hearings if he is being debriefed behind the scenes on his role in the crimes so he can take a plea and avoid sitting for years on death row. General population is much preferable to sitting isolated in the DR housing units.

I give it 50/50 as to him cooperating. I actually would be surprised if he cooperates because he had his trial scheduled for September 4, 2019 and appeared ready to take his chances at trial.

...2 Cents....

I have always said George would roll on the others. He really didn't have anything to gain with the murders and had the most to lose (his son which he already had full custody of.) I think he only got involved because of Billy and the alleged (we have no proof this happened yet, but it may well come out at trial) fight with Chris Sr. If Billy lost that fight it could have enraged George who I think has little to no impulse control and a hair trigger temper (based on his surly looks in court.) I also believe that George is closer to his dad and Jake is closer to his mother. For George I do not think it had any thing to do with his brother getting custody and more to do with his dad and the alleged fight with Chris.

JMO

 

[Chelly]

Being mindful of those who think George will roll on the others, this is what keeps coming to mind:
Hearing:

• Jake Wagner: June 22, 10 a.m.
  
  
• Billy Wagner: June 22 at 1:30 p.m.
  
  
• Angela Wagner: June 24 at 1:30 p.m.

There are not any hearings currently scheduled for George Wagner, according to the Attorney General's office.

 

[Cool Cats]

I have always said George would roll on the others. He really didn't have anything to gain with the murders and had the most to lose (his son which he already had full custody of.) I think he only got involved because of Billy and the alleged (we have no proof this happened yet, but it may well come out at trial) fight with Chris Sr. If Billy lost that fight it could have enraged George who I think has little to no impulse control and a hair trigger temper (based on his surly looks in court.) I also believe that George is closer to his dad and Jake is closer to his mother. For George I do not think it had any thing to do with his brother getting custody and more to do with his dad and the alleged fight with Chris.

JMO

Yes it seems Jake and Angela were close and GW4 and Billy were close. In just about every interview with Jake Angie has something to say and Jake even referenced her - that it was her idea to do the go fund me.

At one point when asked a question by a reporter in AK, GW4 would not respond. Billy and GW4 did not give any interviews and GW4 was probably going along with his dad by remaining silent.

Apparently Angela is the one who masterminded the custody documents and signed her mom's signature (it seems to me). This again reeks of her and Jake conniving together.

I don't think it can be understated that while the boys were growing up Angela and Billy were just as controlling over them as they were with their grandkids. I think because of this it was easy for Billy to suck GW4 into the scheme. I bet he reassured him time and again that there was no way to get caught because there would not be any evidence to trace back to them.

Daddy knows best even if it's about murder and GW4 followed in his footsteps. GW4 seems angry and shocked - deer in headlights - that Billy was wrong and they did get caught. I believe Billy convinced him that it could never happen, that it would all blow over into a cold case. The Wagner's were shocked at the mammoth investigation with BCI and the Atttorney General getting involved, all the 100's of social media groups, blogs, threads, and all the publicity. They probably figured it would be a local case bungled by "keystone cops."

I agree, he might be the weak link because he might feel betrayed because he went along and wasn't supposed to be arrested. By following his family he lost his son, that is powerful motivation to turn State's evidence against them.

What happened (opinion) was that Billy was all caught up in the actual crime scenes, it was all about not leaving evidence, not being seen, make it look like Kenny was shot by a drug dealer with money left on him, get rid of all the clothes, boots, and weapons that night, don't leave behind any security cameras etc...
Even Jake's attorneys say the prosecution does not have any of the Wagner's shoes.

Billy was ignorant and amateurish, not smart enough to know that every move they made before the murders would be obsessively investigated. All that intercepting of digital and wire communications and spying they did, all the fighting over custody, all the fake custody documents, all the spread sheets of custody on their computers, the time spent watching and or discussing (maybe with a witness) the Boondock Saints movie, all that shopping in all those Walmarts,
the sharing back and forth (likely on their computers and phones) of the layout of the houses and schedules of the victims.

I agree it's quite likely Billy got GW4 involved and Angela and Jake did a lot of their own evil scheming together on it, even backing each other up in their interviews. Put this all together and GW4 could very well be the weak link.

This all is just my theory of what happened and of course the trials will put together what DeWine said is a thousand piece puzzel. Watch the pieces come together then see what really happened and why.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yes it seems Jake and Angela were close and GW4 and Billy were close. In just about every interview with Jake Angie has something to say and Jake even referenced her - that it was her idea to do the go fund me.

At one point when asked a question by a reporter in AK, GW4 would not respond. Billy and GW4 did not give any interviews and GW4 was probably going along with his dad by remaining silent.

Apparently Angela is the one who masterminded the custody documents and signed her mom's signature (it seems to me). This again reeks of her and Jake conniving together.

I don't think it can be understated that while the boys were growing up Angela and Billy were just as controlling over them as they were with their grandkids. I think because of this it was easy for Billy to suck GW4 into the scheme. I bet he reassured him time and again that there was no way to get caught because there would not be any evidence to trace back to them.

Daddy knows best even if it's about murder and GW4 followed in his footsteps. GW4 seems angry and shocked - deer in headlights - that Billy was wrong and they did get caught. I believe Billy convinced him that it could never happen, that it would all blow over into a cold case. The Wagner's were shocked at the mammoth investigation with BCI and the Atttorney General getting involved, all the 100's of social media groups, blogs, threads, and all the publicity. They probably figured it would be a local case bungled by "keystone cops."

I agree, he might be the weak link because he might feel betrayed because he went along and wasn't supposed to be arrested. By following his family he lost his son, that is powerful motivation to turn State's evidence against them.

What happened (opinion) was that Billy was all caught up in the actual crime scenes, it was all about not leaving evidence, not being seen, make it look like Kenny was shot by a drug dealer with money left on him, get rid of all the clothes, boots, and weapons that night, don't leave behind any security cameras etc...
Even Jake's attorneys say the prosecution does not have any of the Wagner's shoes.

Billy was ignorant and amateurish, not smart enough to know that every move they made before the murders would be obsessively investigated. All that intercepting of digital and wire communications and spying they did, all the fighting over custody, all the fake custody documents, all the spread sheets of custody on their computers, the time spent watching and or discussing (maybe with a witness) the Boondock Saints movie, all that shopping in all those Walmarts,
the sharing back and forth (likely on their computers and phones) of the layout of the houses and schedules of the victims.

I agree it's quite likely Billy got GW4 involved and Angela and Jake did a lot of their own evil scheming together on it, even backing each other up in their interviews. Put this all together and GW4 could very well be the weak link.

This all is just my theory of what happened and of course the trials will put together what DeWine said is a thousand piece puzzel. Watch the pieces come together then see what really happened and why.

This is my opinion and mine only of what went down.

Hanna leaves Jake. Having evidence (per AC) that Jake was abusive to Hanna, Jake did not take kindly to losing a woman he had groomed since she was 13. She moved on and wouldn't come back so Jake figures he will get custody of SW and then Hanna will have to come back to him if she wants to see her daughter and it is the very best way to hurt Hanna, through her daughter. This is a typical move of your everyday garden variety abuser who wants back the person he is abusing because they do not see their victim as a person but an object they own completely.

Jake goes to Angie. Jake is by far Angie's favorite, so she buys into whatever tales he has to tell. Jake may have told her that SW said something but he certainly used the family history (Clarence) to hammer into Angie's head (without any evidence IMO) that SW was in danger if not from family, then from all those men Hanna was dragging in. After all she was pregnant with one man's child and going out with another. So Angie drinks the "Save SW" Koolaid.

Angie goes to Billy. I believe that Billy is a little of what we call a "slow" thinker. She nibbles on his hind end for a while until he becomes convinced that SW is in danger. So he drinks the "Save SW Koolaid". At this point I do not believe it has moved to murder yet. After all according to Fred, Billy and Chris were best friends. Billy thinks Chris will listen to what he has to say and agree with him. So Billy goes to Chris with what Angie has pounded into his head and tells Chris then demands Hanna sign over parental rights. This enrages Chris (that past history of Clarence's had to be a sensitive spot for Chris and probably Kenny also). Big Billy never imagined he would be on the losing side of Chris's anger but should have remembered that old saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall." Besides Chris was fighting for the honor of his family and especially the daughter that by all family accounts was his favorite that he adored.

Billy drags his wounded pride and sore hind end back home to his family. He tells George (who as I said through observing his looks and behavior in court) has little impulse control and a hair trigger temper. George who I also believe is a little "slow" explodes in anger about the treatment of dear dad and says "let's teach them all a lesson they will never forget".

A murder plot is born with each member having their own agenda. Jake smirks and smiles because finally after 6 months his show is on the road and revenge on Hanna is well on it's way.

Even now that he is sitting in jail facing trial he cannot help but smile a very pleased smile. Because his motive was not to get custody of SW or "save" her but to hurt Hanna as much as he could because she betrayed him after he had groomed her for six long years and after all his hard work how dare she just up and leave.

Now that George has had time to cool down (and sit in his solitary cell, read his Bible and think) he has seen the error of his ways and realizes he has sent his son back to the very person (his ex-wife) that he did not want to have him (evidenced by the fact that he demanded a psych eval of his ex while he was behind bars) in an effort to keep his son out of her hands. This is why I think he will take any deal offered to him and throw the rest of his family under the bus.

Plus something about the way that Fred acts toward George in the courtroom makes me think she is more protective of him and believes he was sucked into it all by Jake and Angie. I can't put my finger on it but something in her face when she looks at George is missing when she looks at Jake. It's like she clearly believes that George is a "victim" of Angie and especially Jake.

I feel like this is the only explanation for George getting involved at all and why he will roll on them all. He had nothing to gain and who in their right mind would go kill 8 people just so his brother can get custody of a child.

Would any of you kill 8 people for your brother to get custody of his child? Think about it and what George had to gain.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

There were multiple conversations but your right we don't know if more than one of them was incriminating but from what Canepa said in court it sounds to me like the Wagners did incriminate themselves over multiple conversations, not just in one conversation.

Canepa said at Fred's bond hearing:

"We have information from a confidential reliable resource--ahh--source that there was a collection of individuals out at Miss Wagner's home on one occasion, on at least one occasion I should say..."

Canepa said at GW4's bond hearing:

"...and or help the other individuals escape and I would note that is not the only conversation, I only brought up that conversation as it pertained to Miss Wagner but there have been multiple conversations where those sorts of threats have been made and I would say that specifically George Wagner is probably the most vocal in making those threats..."

Think about it, revenge and escape are not going to be brought up "out of the blue,"
there would have to be context to it. No doubt they discussed why they thought some of them could be arrested and the reasons why the future Governor of Ohio should be harmed, he amongst others.

Canepa brought up revenge and escape only because she was fighting against low bond for Fred and against any bond for GW4 but I have no doubt the Wagners discussed much more than just these 2 subjects. For the bond hearings Canepa did not need to bring up the other incriminating things they likely said.

...2 Cents....

Interesting little word correction,
"We have information from a confidential reliable resource--ahh--source..."
I still think along with the tapes they have a witness to the conversation(s). These tapes were from when the W's returned to Ohio from Alaska correct?

 

[sunshineray]

According to DeWine’s office, the indictments “were filed less than a week after authorities confirmed the existence of a homemade firearm suppressor believed to have been built by the suspects.” The indictments allege that “the suspects purchased ammunition, a magazine clip, brass catcher(s), and a bug detector in preparation for the crimes.”

“They also allegedly obtained and shared information about the physical layouts of the victims’ properties, their habits and routines,sleeping locations, and counter surveillance devices present on their properties, including pets.”

Ohio AG: 'Today is the Day' — Arrests made in connection with Rhoden murders

"The indictments allege that “the suspects purchased ammunition, a magazine clip, brass catcher(s), and a bug detector in preparation for the crimes.”

If they had a bug detector it must not have been very good if they got themselves recorded making threats against LE and the future govenor of Ohio. Unless they lost it or it was broken and not useable.

 

[sunshineray]

Very interesting that you say this:

"I suspect the W's defense attorneys are trying to use her as a "red herring"

You have mentioned before different times you think the defense is playing distracting techniques or trying to delay things. Like wanting the court to hire a discovery coordinator and complaining they didn't get items of discovery etc...

It was done again last month when Billy's attorney Collins told reporter Madeline Mitchell, Cincinnati Enquirer:

"Collins said the Wagner family attorneys also have yet to receive the government’s discovery documents. "

Point is, it is interesting to see how the defense attorneys are handling things, like Jake's attorneys filing a motion to get ballistic evidence and expert shoe testimony thrown out. According to a reporter the prosecution has shell casings from both the Rhoden and Wagner properties.

When I see the discovery documents saying ballistic evidence or shoe print evidence I only think of evidence from the crime scenes but ballistic evidence and shoe print evidence can come from other places.
I bet there is shoe print evidence from Wagner family properties as well.

...2 Cents...

Don't forget that vehicle that was sold and tracked down produced some kind of evidence also.

 

[sunshineray]

Yes it seems Jake and Angela were close and GW4 and Billy were close. In just about every interview with Jake Angie has something to say and Jake even referenced her - that it was her idea to do the go fund me.

At one point when asked a question by a reporter in AK, GW4 would not respond. Billy and GW4 did not give any interviews and GW4 was probably going along with his dad by remaining silent.

Apparently Angela is the one who masterminded the custody documents and signed her mom's signature (it seems to me). This again reeks of her and Jake conniving together.

I don't think it can be understated that while the boys were growing up Angela and Billy were just as controlling over them as they were with their grandkids. I think because of this it was easy for Billy to suck GW4 into the scheme. I bet he reassured him time and again that there was no way to get caught because there would not be any evidence to trace back to them.

Daddy knows best even if it's about murder and GW4 followed in his footsteps. GW4 seems angry and shocked - deer in headlights - that Billy was wrong and they did get caught. I believe Billy convinced him that it could never happen, that it would all blow over into a cold case. The Wagner's were shocked at the mammoth investigation with BCI and the Atttorney General getting involved, all the 100's of social media groups, blogs, threads, and all the publicity. They probably figured it would be a local case bungled by "keystone cops."

I agree, he might be the weak link because he might feel betrayed because he went along and wasn't supposed to be arrested. By following his family he lost his son, that is powerful motivation to turn State's evidence against them.

What happened (opinion) was that Billy was all caught up in the actual crime scenes, it was all about not leaving evidence, not being seen, make it look like Kenny was shot by a drug dealer with money left on him, get rid of all the clothes, boots, and weapons that night, don't leave behind any security cameras etc...
Even Jake's attorneys say the prosecution does not have any of the Wagner's shoes.

Billy was ignorant and amateurish, not smart enough to know that every move they made before the murders would be obsessively investigated. All that intercepting of digital and wire communications and spying they did, all the fighting over custody, all the fake custody documents, all the spread sheets of custody on their computers, the time spent watching and or discussing (maybe with a witness) the Boondock Saints movie, all that shopping in all those Walmarts,
the sharing back and forth (likely on their computers and phones) of the layout of the houses and schedules of the victims.

I agree it's quite likely Billy got GW4 involved and Angela and Jake did a lot of their own evil scheming together on it, even backing each other up in their interviews. Put this all together and GW4 could very well be the weak link.

This all is just my theory of what happened and of course the trials will put together what DeWine said is a thousand piece puzzel. Watch the pieces come together then see what really happened and why.

Snipped by me
"The Wagner's were shocked at the mammoth investigation with BCI and the Atttorney General getting involved, all the 100's of social media groups, blogs, threads, and all the publicity. They probably figured it would be a local case bungled by "keystone cops."

If this turns out to be an accurate description of their mindset, it woukd just amaze me they weren't apprehended sooner. What kind of morons would think slaughtering 8 people in one night and 4 different locations wouldn't bring massive state and federal investigations down on the area? I really want these trials to start and the cases against them all to be aired. Can't happen soon enough.

 

[Cool Cats]

This is my opinion and mine only of what went down.
A
Hanna leaves Jake. Having evidence (per AC) that Jake was abusive to Hanna, Jake did not take kindly to losing a woman he had groomed since she was 13. She moved on and wouldn't come back so Jake figures he will get custody of SW and then Hanna will have to come back to him if she wants to see her daughter and it is the very best way to hurt Hanna, through her daughter. This is a typical move of your everyday garden variety abuser who wants back the person he is abusing because they do not see their victim as a person but an object they own completely.

Jake goes to Angie. Jake is by far Angie's favorite, so she buys into whatever tales he has to tell. Jake may have told her that SW said something but he certainly used the family history (Clarence) to hammer into Angie's head (without any evidence IMO) that SW was in danger if not from family, then from all those men Hanna was dragging in. After all she was pregnant with one man's child and going out with another. So Angie drinks the "Save SW" Koolaid.

Angie goes to Billy. I believe that Billy is a little of what we call a "slow" thinker. She nibbles on his hind end for a while until he becomes convinced that SW is in danger. So he drinks the "Save SW Koolaid". At this point I do not believe it has moved to murder yet. After all according to Fred, Billy and Chris were best friends. Billy thinks Chris will listen to what he has to say and agree with him. So Billy goes to Chris with what Angie has pounded into his head and tells Chris then demands Hanna sign over parental rights. This enrages Chris (that past history of Clarence's had to be a sensitive spot for Chris and probably Kenny also). Big Billy never imagined he would be on the losing side of Chris's anger but should have remembered that old saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall." Besides Chris was fighting for the honor of his family and especially the daughter that by all family accounts was his favorite that he adored.

Billy drags his wounded pride and sore hind end back home to his family. He tells George (who as I said through observing his looks and behavior in court) has little impulse control and a hair trigger temper. George who I also believe is a little "slow" explodes in anger about the treatment of dear dad and says "let's teach them all a lesson they will never forget".

A murder plot is born with each member having their own agenda. Jake smirks and smiles because finally after 6 months his show is on the road and revenge on Hanna is well on it's way.

Even now that he is sitting in jail facing trial he cannot help but smile a very pleased smile. Because his motive was not to get custody of SW or "save" her but to hurt Hanna as much as he could because she betrayed him after he had groomed her for six long years and after all his hard work how dare she just up and leave.

Now that George has had time to cool down (and sit in his solitary cell, read his Bible and think) he has seen the error of his ways and realizes he has sent his son back to the very person (his ex-wife) that he did not want to have him (evidenced by the fact that he demanded a psych eval of his ex while he was behind bars) in an effort to keep his son out of her hands. This is why I think he will take any deal offered to him and throw the rest of his family under the bus.

Plus something about the way that Fred acts toward George in the courtroom makes me think she is more protective of him and believes he was sucked into it all by Jake and Angie. I can't put my finger on it but something in her face when she looks at George is missing when she looks at Jake. It's like she clearly believes that George is a "victim" of Angie and especially Jake.

I feel like this is the only explanation for George getting involved at all and why he will roll on them all. He had nothing to gain and who in their right mind would go kill 8 people just so his brother can get custody of a child.

Would any of you kill 8 people for your brother to get custody of his child? Think about it and what George had to gain.

JMO

Great post and funny!

"She nibbles on his hind end for a while"

"Billy drags his wounded pride and sore hind end back home to his family"

Yes! It was about more than custody....Jake wanted control of Hanna and wanted her back and was jealous. I used to think Chris Senior was the main target, now I think it was Hanna. I think they made it obvious it was Hanna because they waited for her to come home from the hospital and could barely wait, not even a week, to go after her and her family.

Some posters have given their opinion that HR was not the target and custody was not the main motive but I'm not convinced that an undercurrent of drugs was a motive.

As far as the fight with Chris being a part of the motive, remember, they were planning this starting in January 2016 and the "mystery fight" with Chris appears to have happened much nearer to April 22nd 2016.

So why were they planning murder in January before these confrontations? Because at that time it was all about HR.

As for Fred and GW4, it was strange that GW4 totally ignored her the last time he was in court. She was looking right at him, practically alone on that side of the courtroom except for Robin, and he didn't give her a single glance as he walked out.
Other posters wondered about it too.

And George IV is the only one she spoke out about to the media after a hearing:

George Wagner has a young son. He appears much thinner since his arrest last November. His grandmother, Fredericka Wagner, was in court Wednesday to support him along with his aunt, Robin Wagner.

“George is innocent. My whole family is innocent. That’s all I have to say. It will all come out eventually,” Fredericka Wagner said after the hearing. “He’s lost a lot of weight. But he’s strong and he’s got a strong faith in God. So have I and so did Jacob. Our whole family and we just believe, I know Christ is with him.

Note she says Jake did, past tense, have faith in God. Freudian slip?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Let us NOT forget this!!!

Scioto Valley Guardian on Facebook Watch

Due to health issues, I've had to be away for a bit. I've missed a lot of things. Regarding the video, can anyone share with me their thoughts on how the following may be connected, please? TIA

DH, hit man in the vid, Commissioner M, and police officer that was laid off but now works on the drug task force. I apologize if I got any of the initials mixed up. Do they have any connections to FW or RN or Big Bear? I'm really behind. TIA for any info., even if opinion only, that might help me connect the dots.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I really think that the Wagners though that George Wagner iv was not going to get arrested that’s why he was the most vocal On the revenge talk and escape planning, he also thought the same thing that he wouldn’t be arrested, JMO

I wonder what made him so certain he wouldn't be arrested?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Great post and funny!

"She nibbles on his hind end for a while"

"Billy drags his wounded pride and sore hind end back home to his family"

Yes! It was about more than custody....Jake wanted control of Hanna and wanted her back and was jealous. I used to think Chris Senior was the main target, now I think it was Hanna. I think they made it obvious it was Hanna because they waited for her to come home from the hospital and could barely wait, not even a week, to go after her and her family.

Some posters have given their opinion that HR was not the target and custody was not the main motive but I'm not convinced that an undercurrent of drugs was a motive.

As far as the fight with Chris being a part of the motive, remember, they were planning this starting in January 2016 and the "mystery fight" with Chris appears to have happened much nearer to April 22nd 2016.

So why were they planning murder in January before these confrontations? Because at that time it was all about HR.

As for Fred and GW4, it was strange that GW4 totally ignored her the last time he was in court. She was looking right at him, practically alone on that side of the courtroom except for Robin, and he didn't give her a single glance as he walked out.
Other posters wondered about it too.

And George IV is the only one she spoke out about to the media after a hearing:

George Wagner has a young son. He appears much thinner since his arrest last November. His grandmother, Fredericka Wagner, was in court Wednesday to support him along with his aunt, Robin Wagner.

“George is innocent. My whole family is innocent. That’s all I have to say. It will all come out eventually,” Fredericka Wagner said after the hearing. “He’s lost a lot of weight. But he’s strong and he’s got a strong faith in God. So have I and so did Jacob. Our whole family and we just believe, I know Christ is with him.

Note she says Jake did, past tense, have faith in God. Freudian slip?

Great observation on the past tense!

 

[Cool Cats]

..Double