Found Deceased TX - PFC Vanessa Guillen, 20, Fort Hood military base, items left behind, 22 Apr 2020 *arrests* #3

[Boxer]

I disagree, FBI wanted to convict him of murder. Being near where a body is later found will just result in a court releasing him. FBI wanted to trap him into an admission of guilt, otherwise they had no proof to charge him. Many perps are left to walk free for long periods, thinking they'll get away with it, while LE wait for proof. And some do kill themselves.

Fotis Dulos is a good example. He was prime suspect from day 1, but not arrested until months later, and then a month later killed himself while out on bail.

Lock em up and throw away the key isn't allowed.

One thing, Dulos was out on bail with an ankle monitor.

 

[CronesEye]

Love it!!!

@CronesEye , moderators are insistent that images be credited -- can you click Edit, and type in where you found the image?

Are you piloting the tug???

Thank you for your fortitude & service, Laughing

Yes, I will link. Great source as it is a story about progress. Not my tug or base. I was only the linehandler who set up and maintained the tow but I have piloted a tug in fog just for fun.
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-building-new-submarines-convenient-women
The Navy Is Designing Its New Subs To Be More Convenient To Women
I assure you Laughing, my service was not conventional and my fortitude including walking down full halls yelling don't you ever touch her again. I have no problem appearing crazy.

 

[Boxer]

It's in the hands of the FBI now. CA has the right to a fair trial, which means no one can discuss the allegations as though they are proven facts. In my observation, FBI don't leak details like has been happening so far. They prefer to get a full confession, but also focus on developing as much supporting evidence as possible so there is no doubt about what happened.
MOO

Also, MOO the FBI will not be presenting CA utterances as if they are fact.

 

[borndem]

dbm -- WaPo article already posted above. Oopsy.

 

[CronesEye]

dbm -- WaPo article already posted above. Oopsy.

Thank you.
Didn't know Khawam took the case pro bono.
Like Boxer said it's citizen action that keeps this country strong and Khawam taking this case pro bono is above the call of duty, what makes progress.

 

[Seattle1]

I understand Lt Col BS made this comment in a private FB group called Veteran Humor. Did anybody in the group find this sentiment funny? I get the sense that BS has difficulty with younger, attractive women. Bad impression indeed.

Veteran Humor is a public FB page with over 300,000 likes. Virtually everyone in the thread was calling her out. I think she definitely has problems. IMO many of her responses were condescending taunts, it looked to me like she was having fun toying with people and making fun of their outrage. It was so gross. I would rather be taught by Dolores Umbridge.

So, was this a private FB group or not? Trying to flesh out BS response...

When I was on a private Facebook page for veterans, I saw the article about SPC Guillen’s death and was shocked, horrified, and sickened by the tragic loss of this beautiful woman soldier. [...] That’s when I saw a posting written by Zach Bigger, who was clearly searching for meaning as well.

Personal statement by Betsy Schoeller regarding the death of Specialist Vanessa Guillen

 

[NoSI]

So I spoke with our Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner (SANE) at the hospital where I work. We don’t really see a lot of military here as we don’t have a base nearby. I was wondering if the Army has anything close to a Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner (SANE) and was honestly surprised that they do. They are called Sexual Assault Medical Forensic Examiners. They appear to be well-trained. However, “forensic health care team members are medical professionals who work closely with SHARP professionals, Family Advocacy professionals, CID, OSI, NCIS, local law enforcement, JAG, local judiciary systems, the VA, local agencies, and the child enrichment child advocacy centers”. I think it is great that this role officially exists within the military, but I worry that having this role within the closed system of the army etc. can potentially introduce bias… Working closely together as long as the goal is justice is great, but not if there are secondary motives… I haven’t been able to figure out if the Sexual Assault Medical Forensic Examiner is active duty, but I don’t think so.

Sources:

https://www.army.mil/article/229119/sexual_assault_medical_forensic_examiners_bring_training_care

 

[Seattle1]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...5/vanessa-guillen-remains-identified-ft-hood/

July 5, 2020 at 2:05 p.m. PDT

Army investigators have positively identified the remains of Spc. Vanessa Guillén, her family told The Washington Post on Sunday, more than two months after she vanished from Fort Hood.

[..]

Investigators moved too slowly to piece together evidence and secure phone data that led to the suspects more than two months after Guillén disappeared, said family attorney Natalie Khawam, who took the case pro bono.

“Her leadership failed her,” Khawam said. “The Army failed her.”

[..]

Guillén felt she could not approach her chain of command with allegations, her relatives said, and instead confided in family. “She felt if she spoke, something would happen,” sister Mayra Guillén told The Post. “I now realize everything leads back to them harassing her at work.”

 

[oviedo]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...5/vanessa-guillen-remains-identified-ft-hood/

No surprise.

Army investigators have positively identified the remains of Spc. Vanessa Guillén, her family told The Washington Post on Sunday, more than two months after she vanished from Fort Hood.
Remains discovered Tuesday in a shallow grave east of the Texas installation triggered a manhunt that ended when one suspect — Spc. Aaron Robinson — killed himself as officers closed in, the Army said.

@KayElJay or @sillybilly please move the media thread to found / located when you move Vanessa’s thread
Thank you
RIP and I hope meaningful change is brought about in the military now
JMO

 

[NoSI]

Well, this is good. There is an option to go to a civilian hospital.

Reporting Sexual Assault to Civilian Hospital

When an Active Duty Service Member reports a sexual assault to a civilian hospital, there is no mandatory reporting of adult sexual assault. The civilian hospital that performs the Sexual Assault Forensic Exam is Scott & White Hospital in Temple. A forensic exam is completed at Scott and White when Law Enforcement orders the exam. A report to Law Enforcement is an unrestricted report.

Reporting Options for clarification of restricted and unrestricted reporting.

Source: Fort Hood Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Program - Hoodmwr

 

[CronesEye]

So I spoke with our Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner (SANE) at the hospital where I work. We don’t really see a lot of military here as we don’t have a base nearby. I was wondering if the Army has anything close to a Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner (SANE) and was honestly surprised that they do. They are called Sexual Assault Medical Forensic Examiners. They appear to be well-trained. However, “forensic health care team members are medical professionals who work closely with SHARP professionals, Family Advocacy professionals, CID, OSI, NCIS, local law enforcement, JAG, local judiciary systems, the VA, local agencies, and the child enrichment child advocacy centers”. I think it is great that this role officially exists within the military, but I worry that having this role within the closed system of the army etc. can potentially introduce bias… Working closely together as long as the goal is justice is great, but not if there are secondary motives… I haven’t been able to figure out if the Sexual Assault Medical Forensic Examiner is active duty, but I don’t think so.

Sources:

https://www.army.mil/article/229119/sexual_assault_medical_forensic_examiners_bring_training_care

"Working closely together as long as the goal is justice is great, but not if there are secondary motives"

Good call. There are always existing and forged alliances possible. External contractors are often x military, it is so hard to go outside a closed system sometimes, that is why it is important for the whole culture to make progress. It seems that sometimes once a person is victimized it gets repeated. That is why it is so wonderful Khawam is taking this pro bono, it departs from having any vested interest in the outcome, comes from the heart and that is where justice resides.

 

[CronesEye]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...5/vanessa-guillen-remains-identified-ft-hood/

July 5, 2020 at 2:05 p.m. PDT

Army investigators have positively identified the remains of Spc. Vanessa Guillén, her family told The Washington Post on Sunday, more than two months after she vanished from Fort Hood.

[..]

Investigators moved too slowly to piece together evidence and secure phone data that led to the suspects more than two months after Guillén disappeared, said family attorney Natalie Khawam, who took the case pro bono.

“Her leadership failed her,” Khawam said. “The Army failed her.”

[..]

Guillén felt she could not approach her chain of command with allegations, her relatives said, and instead confided in family. “She felt if she spoke, something would happen,” sister Mayra Guillén told The Post. “I now realize everything leads back to them harassing her at work.”

"“She felt if she spoke, something would happen,” sister Mayra Guillén told The Post."

Decades later and nothing has changed.
We may have even gone backwards.

 

[borndem]

Welcome to Websleuths,
Lemonslush !!​

 

[Curiosity1234]

“I’m sorry you’re so stupid you misinterpreted me.”

She’s so full of crap. IMO she meant what she said in that original post. The “You guys are kidding, right?” and “cry like a snowflake” lines make it clear. She had ample opportunity to edit her comment and apologize in the thread right away if she thought she was being misinterpreted. She didn’t, she doubled down and taunted people. It wasn’t until it went viral that she got scared and ran.

I agree Ninja Bunny, she said exactly what she meant in her original post. What a coward to not admit it and apologize.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Deleted

 

[Inquisitive2018]

So, was this a private FB group or not? Trying to flesh out BS response...

When I was on a private Facebook page for veterans, I saw the article about SPC Guillen’s death and was shocked, horrified, and sickened by the tragic loss of this beautiful woman soldier. [...] That’s when I saw a posting written by Zach Bigger, who was clearly searching for meaning as well.

Personal statement by Betsy Schoeller regarding the death of Specialist Vanessa Guillen

It's not, it is a public page.

 

[Satchie]

CID was in charge wasn't it? Not FBI. FBI evidence team would have processd the river scene.

I'm going off the affadavit being filed in civilian court by FBI. I would think the whole theory of the crime would be included in a trial against CA, to show who she was in a conspiracy with? JMO

 

[Satchie]

Also, MOO the FBI will not be presenting CA utterances as if they are fact.

I agree. I don't think they want to focus on someone's excuses, they care about their illegal actions. IMO it's enough to show that she was having an affair with AR, that explains that they were close. There's no rational reason why she chose to help him instead of calling police: that was her choice, she has to pay.

ETA I also think anything she has to say about his motives would be hearsay, and not given credence as evidence.

MOO

 

[Cindizzi]

@KayElJay or @sillybilly please move the media thread to found / located when you move Vanessa’s thread
Thank you
RIP and I hope meaningful change is brought about in the military now
JMO

Also, VG’s rank is now Specialist effective 1 July 2020, a promotion from PFC which she earned with time served.
RIP Vanessa.

 

[MsBetsy]

There are different levels of security clearances and that would be a factor in arms supply,I would hope. While I learned how to shoot weapons, I never had experience with their inventory. From what I saw with government inventory you had to be somewhat trustworthy, but I am sure that varies.Personally, I maintained tows for submarines and my CPO would put a knife up to my face and arm and threaten my life while I was on the main tow controls, endangering both vessels should my arm possibly move and the consequent line slag cause the hulls to come into contact and puncture each other possibly bringing both vessels down being connected by multiple lines. That is my experience and why I am so adamant about change in military culture so women are not harassed and never have their lives at risk for simply existing in the military. It doesn't seem like much has changed. I served decades ago. You sought out your own protection back then. Changes were supposed to have been made. It has in word, but not in practice and there is much variation in different groups, it is a leadership thing, a culture and subculture thing. Some are more advanced than others, some do more than just lip service. I think a troop looks at what leadership will tolerate and look away from, then goes on from there. Your problem troops will go the limit with what they can get away with and influence others with borderline behavior. If one sees another getting away with it, they will be pressed to follow suit. Some troops come from bad childhood experiences where boundaries and rules didn't exist or protect them, so they are inclined to test limits and repeat abuses. That is why the military needs to have uniform rules, regulations and enforcement and above all absolutely the best leadership possible because that it where it begins and ends. Good leadership really isn't that hard, it's out there, there are just no consequences when it isn't.

All the protections in the world can be put down on a piece of paper but if leadership wants to ignore it, it's worthless.

Thank you for your insight and for sharing some of what you experienced. I can't imagine being threatened with a knife while performing such an important task! I hope the good experiences outweighed the bad.

And yes, I believe that changes have been made in word but not necessarily in practice.

When I googled SHARP to find out more about it, I found a study by Boston University in 2016 to determine it's effectiveness.

They stated that research by the Department of Defense shows that it has not declined over the years since it started in 2008.

The study found that it is effective in educating soldiers that problems exist, "but it does not target the societal and gendered norms that have existed in the army that perpetuate a culture which is conducive to harrassment and assault."

So it's not surprising that the army has not found evidence of sexual harrassment since women are afraid to file an official report to begin with.

I hope something positive comes of the investigation into Fort Hood so that women are not afraid to come forward. I would think the army would want their soldiers to have confidence and trust in their leaders.

Imo