Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #10

[Busyliz]

Back to the lounge photo/still, I don’t think the thing by the exercise ball is a doll, to me it looks too flat, perhaps a hand puppet?

 

[MENDEL]

GM
One night MM slept in GM's bed - MM went into the room because Amelie was crying. (don't know which night.

Wednesday night KM slept in with the children's room bed next to the window (GM snoring) This was also the night of the crying episode which the neighbor heard and the one MM mentioned.
This is two nights out of 5 definitely when MM was awake.
It is possible that she was awake, like you say, either before CB entered or that he woke her through the window.
GM says that the door was ajar differently to how they'd left it - that could have been MM wandering around the appt looking for them just after they'd gone out, but had got back into bed.
It sounds like a disturbed pattern of sleep just from this snippet and the fact that
they had a star chart at home showing the nights where MM didn't get up.
CB could possibly have found out her name beforehand, luring her to the window, like you say -
It may not have been well planned at all, he just took a chance to see if he could rouse her. If not he may have just walked away.

P.J. POLICE FILES: GERRY MCCANN'S ARGUIDO STATEMENT 07 SEP 2007

Very good points.

 

[haden]

could she have walked a combination of those paths at any time earlier in the week?

if not, and if MBM is being abducted, wouldn't she be carried. in which case, would there even be a scent trail to follow?
if MBM is walking, would an abductor really walk alongside her and walk at her pace, at 10 o'clock at night?

That photo always left me puzzled. It was said to be the freshest scent.
The dogs were brought in pretty soon after she disappeared. Two sets of dogs on the 4th. First one dog followed that scent. Then the second dog followed the same scent. Then they brought in the second set of dogs on the 8th and they followed the same scent, first dog number 1, then dog number 2.
I also read it somewhere at the time that the dogs would follow the scent even if she was carried.
Another strange thing is their stopping place: the car park accross OC reception, next to a lamp post.
If they followed her earlier walk why did they all stop in the parking area next to the lamp post? McCanns did not have a car.
Puzzling, really!

 

[Dlk79]

But that path, if I understand it, passes through OC area. How could it be? Couldn't parents recognized that path as done earlier in the day by her?

If you read the full report by the dog handler in the PJ files, they don't seem overly convinced by the behaviour shown by the dogs. They weren't deployed until a day or so after the event and there did not appear to be any majorly definitive signals given by them. MM and her family walked variations of this route every day to meet up with the other families in their apartments after breakfast. The trail they followed could just have been from previous parts of the holiday. And if MM was being carried on what was a fairly windy evening, the scent trail would have been fairly weak to begin with.
P.J. POLICE FILES: ANTONIO FREITAS SILVA DOG HANDLER

 

[Deleted member 268067]

Very good points.

That’s interesting. I’d be interested to know her sleep pattern. A lot of children MMs age do wake but it’s between 2-4 as per established non trained sleep cycles.

The night KM was in with her was because she’d had an argument and didn’t want to sleep with GM.

My instincts say that if MM had form for waking before midnight then they wouldn’t leave her, but I could be wrong. (And like you say, she did wake crying, so it’s whether she was inclined to waking or she was disturbed...)

 

[haden]

If you read the full report by the dog handler in the PJ files, they don't seem overly convinced by the behaviour shown by the dogs. They weren't deployed until a day or so after the event and there did not appear to be any majorly definitive signals given by them. MM and her family walked variations of this route every day to meet up with the other families in their apartments after breakfast. The trail they followed could just have been from previous parts of the holiday. And if MM was being carried on what was a fairly windy evening, the scent trail would have been fairly weak to begin with.
P.J. POLICE FILES: ANTONIO FREITAS SILVA DOG HANDLER

Yes, their interpretation was almost like they did not believe the dogs. But there were 4 different dogs and all following the same route and all stopping in the parking area.
I guess, we will never know but for me personally this is strange.

 

[redplanet]

In the photo of the VW on a sandy track, the fence IMO is steel cable through holes in wood posts.

 

[tedtink]

Very good points.

Maybe when GM did his check he woke MM by going to the loo, maybe flushing it, closing the patio door. Perhaps she got out of bed then?
CB may have just been going in to burgle, opened the window (usual for him), there she was standing in the bedroom and he just took advantage of the opportunity.

 

[haden]

Maybe when GM did his check he woke MM by going to the loo, maybe flushing it, closing the patio door. Perhaps she got out of bed then?
CB may have just been going in to burgle, opened the window (usual for him), there she was standing in the bedroom and he just took advantage of the opportunity.

Yes, but this would be a big coincidence.
Also, after Gerry MO came to check on children. He did not see Madeleine but he also did not see the room being windy or light, i.e the windows were still closed.
I only hope that at that time CB did not hide behind the doors holding Madeleine's breath to stop her shouting.

 

[Vern]

CB left that house in 2006 -It was burgled shortly after, then cleared out completely by neighbours 6 months after he left.

Tracking that; that doesn't mean that couch isn't still out and about there somewhere though. If so, and they suspect that may be where Maddie was taken to, any DNA evidence of her presence on that couch could be crucial to cracking the case and seeing some justice administered.

 

[Integrity123]

IF there is a little dog, than here might be the little sniffer in the red circle.

Back up in the air, head towards the camera, sniffing on the floor. We also have a Dachshund in the family so i know positions they take and i can see some shape, that COULD be one.

It looks a wee bit like a black backpack to me but my phone is rubbish to view stuff x

 

[tedtink]

That’s interesting. I’d be interested to know her sleep pattern. A lot of children MMs age do wake but it’s between 2-4 as per established non trained sleep cycles.

The night KM was in with her was because she’d had an argument and didn’t want to sleep with GM.

My instincts say that if MM had form for waking before midnight then they wouldn’t leave her, but I could be wrong. (And like you say, she did wake crying, so it’s whether she was inclined to waking or she was disturbed...)

IMO they also will wake more when away from home in a strange place, especially if they had woken before and could not find the parents. This could induce a little anxiety in a little one.

 

[sleuth-d-]

That photo always left me puzzled. It was said to be the freshest scent.
The dogs were brought in pretty soon after she disappeared. Two sets of dogs on the 4th. First one dog followed that scent. Then the second dog followed the same scent. Then they brought in the second set of dogs on the 8th and they followed the same scent, first dog number 1, then dog number 2.
I also read it somewhere at the time that the dogs would follow the scent even if she was carried.
Another strange thing is their stopping place: the car park accross OC reception, next to a lamp post.
If they followed her earlier walk why did they all stop in the parking area next to the lamp post? McCanns did not have a car.
Puzzling, really!

"I also read it somewhere at the time that the dogs would follow the scent even if she was carried."
i didn't know that, thanks.

 

[Betty_Boop88]

That’s interesting. I’d be interested to know her sleep pattern. A lot of children MMs age do wake but it’s between 2-4 as per established non trained sleep cycles.

The night KM was in with her was because she’d had an argument and didn’t want to sleep with GM.

My instincts say that if MM had form for waking before midnight then they wouldn’t leave her, but I could be wrong. (And like you say, she did wake crying, so it’s whether she was inclined to waking or she was disturbed...)

IMO they also will wake more when away from home in a strange place, especially if they had woke before and could not find the parents. This could induce a little anxiety in a little one.

Referring to the PJ files; there were three “UK nanny” statements taken. Out of the three of these, two said they never knew of MM getting out of bed while they watched her. The other had “rarely” been present at MM’s bedtime.

P.J. POLICE FILES: HAYLEY JANE PLUMBER 06 MAY 2008
P.J. POLICE FILES: SHARON LEWIN 21 APRIL 2008


The cleaner who was listed under “Nannies UK” on PJ files but states she was rarely there at her bedtime:
P.J. POLICE FILES: AMANDA JANE COXON ROGATORY

It’s not much to go by, but two outta three ain’t bad. We can assume, based on a very small number, that MM didn’t have form for waking during the night. But as Ted says, she was in a foreign country so would be anxious already at that. And if she woke the night before and her parents weren’t there when she was crying, she would be more anxious again.

 

[sleuth-d-]

IMO they also will wake more when away from home in a strange place, especially if they had woke before and could not find the parents. This could induce a little anxiety in a little one.

re: a new strange place.
MBM had sleep problems when the family moved house in UK. sometime before the holiday.
MBM also woke during the holiday week and went into the parents bedroom.
so maybe not a heavy sleeper, especially in new strange environment.
from the parents' PJ interviews i believe.

 

[tedtink]

Yes, but this would be a big coincidence.
Also, after Gerry MO came to check on children. He did not see Madeleine but he also did not see the room being windy or light, i.e the windows were still closed.
I only hope that at that time CB did not hide behind the doors holding Madeleine's breath to stop her shouting.

GM did say that he saw her asleep at that time. It was M.O who did not see the children.
MM was gone by then imo

 

[photographer4]

I wonder why it was discarded?? He still had the video, he showed it to his mate in the bar in Hanover In 2017. It was clearly in his possession still, so why couldn’t they use it??

Is it possible the "friends" who took the video out of the house may have LIED to people that they destroyed the video in question, but in actuality, they had not? Is it possible they held onto it for CB and returned it to him? Perhaps their loyalty runs deep, or they're afraid of him or someone else? Also, its possible that if they were compelled to testify in court about it, that they did so to avoid someone or something worse? Perhaps they said they destroyed it knowing they or someone else was visible on the video???

 

[haden]

GM did say that he saw her asleep at that time. It was M.O who did not see the children.
MM was gone by then imo

That's what I said.
But M.O. saw the room being dark and the window was not open, there was no draught, moving doors etc.
When Kate came she felt the wind, draught and found the window open.
So, she was taken after M.O.'s visit but we don't know if the perpetratior was already in as M.O. did not look around ( which is normal, it wasn't his flat)
I thought this was unfortunate for Madeleine as if Kate came instead of Odlfield that she would probably look around as mothers do.

 

[tedtink]

Is it possible the "friends" who took the video out of the house may have LIED to people that they destroyed the video in question, but in actuality, they had not? Is it possible they held onto it for CB and returned it to him? Perhaps their loyalty runs deep, or they're afraid of him or someone else? Also, its possible that if they were compelled to testify in court about it, that they did so to avoid someone or something worse? Perhaps they said they destroyed it knowing they or someone else was visible on the video???

I think those 'friends' testified as witnesses against him in court at the rape trial. They said they left the tapes in a campervan that got scrapped.

 

[haden]

I think those 'friends' testified as witnesses against him in court at the rape trial. They said they left the tapes in a campervan that got scrapped.

It got scrapped because PJ could not sell it to fund his fine.
How strange it would be that PJ did not find the camera?