NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[borndem]

Thanks, @Satch!! I'll watch it just to see what "they" try to prove. I think I've seen it, but not in a good while...

Not for one second do I think that J.MacD is innocent.

Gonna watch it tonight!!

 

[Satch]

Some lingering questions that may never be answered:

1.) If Helena Stockley was so spaced-out and unreliable in this case, as the court ruled in MacDonald's trial, why was she used as a credible drug informant by LE?

2.) It always interested me that Greg Mitchell knew so much about the case, and him writing "I killed MacDonald's wife and children" on that farm house wall always haunted me. Can you imagine studying the case and you walk in and see that?

3.) Is it at all possible that the government COULD have thrown away or covered up evidence the might have proved MacDonald's innocence?

4.) What exactly did Jimmy Frier hear that night when the operator rang Jeff MacDonald's house instead of his own psychiatrist, another doctor, named Richard MacDonald? For years, when I was not sure of MacDonald's guilt, I said "Get those phone records!" I remember years ago, when I heard Friar's account, and wanted more answers about the case, I almost fell off my chair, thinking that, "If Friar is telling the truth and we get those phone records, and Helena answered the phone" could MacDonald be telling the truth about that night and he was indeed unconscious during that phone conversation?

However, all of this does not change the blood evidence that showed MacDonald as the killer. Unless there was a #3 that will never be known.

Satch

 

[borndem]

Some lingering questions that may never be answered:

1.) If Helena Stockley was so spaced-out and unreliable in this case, as the court ruled in MacDonald's trial, why was she used as a credible drug informant by LE?

2.) It always interested me that Greg Mitchell knew so much about the case, and him writing "I killed MacDonald's wife and children" on that farm house wall always haunted me. Can you imagine studying the case and you walk in and see that?

3.) Is it at all possible that the government COULD have thrown away or covered up evidence the might have proved MacDonald's innocence?

4.) What exactly did Jimmy Frier hear that night when the operator rang Jeff MacDonald's house instead of his own psychiatrist, another doctor, named Richard MacDonald? For years, when I was not sure of MacDonald's guilt, I said "Get those phone records!" I remember years ago, when I heard Friar's account, and wanted more answers about the case, I almost fell off my chair, thinking that, "If Friar is telling the truth and we get those phone records, and Helena answered the phone" could MacDonald be telling the truth about that night and he was indeed unconscious during that phone conversation?

However, all of this does not change the blood evidence that showed MacDonald as the killer. Unless there was a #3 that will never be known.

Satch

bbm
What person, high on LSD, in the middle of a raging triple murder (and barely banging MacD on his forehead and barely piercing his chest (with MacD's blood drops in the bathroom sink), is going to answer a phone in the home of a family you are bent on killing?
Not to mention that LSD (speed, yes, but absolutely not LSD) users can barely drive, much less go to a home at night, in the pouring rain, walk into the correct address and overkill a woman, a 5 y/o and a 2 y/o?
Nope.

 

[mickey2942]

Jeffrey MacDonald: Who Were the Suspects He Claims Killed His Family?

This is what the premise of the appeal is based on. The main suspects, Helena Stoeckly and Greg Mitchell are both dead. They were drug addicts. I still don't believe that they were involved.

 

[TDoc72]

Interesting tidbit (at least to me) I came across while re-reading his book: Vince Bugliosi (author of Helter Skelter) says in his book And the Sea Will Tell that he was contacted by someone on MacDonald’s team about possibly representing JM. Vince told them he might but only if he was innocent and passed a polygraph. While waiting to hear back, Vince got in touch w/prosecution who wouldn’t say much but did talk about the fibers found under Kristen’s nails. That was enough for Vince and he wanted nothing to do with the case. JM later told Vince that he didn’t think a polygraph should be needed to represent him.

 

[borndem]

JM, when the Ft. Bragg officials were interviewing him way back in the beginning -- asked him if he would agree to a polygraph. He agreed, and IIRC they set a date (next day perhaps), and then he called back saying that he had changed his mind.
Hmmmm.
I guess he has an allergy to polygraphs....

 

[Paul B.]

I should really start a thread on WS about Judith Barsi who played toddler Kimmy in the TV version of Fatal Vision. It's interesting that more people are willing to listen to Felon then are willing to be merciful to Joszef Barsi. Even though addiction to alcohol which Jozsef had is now known to be a disease and Joszef is now thought to have had brain damage and/or significant impairment from years of booze.

 

[Satch]

I should really start a thread on WS about Judith Barsi who played toddler Kimmy in the TV version of Fatal Vision. It's interesting that more people are willing to listen to Felon then are willing to be merciful to Joszef Barsi. Even though addiction to alcohol which Jozsef had is now known to be a disease and Joszef is now thought to have had brain damage and/or significant impairment from years of booze.

Yes, Iudith Barsi who played Kimmy in the Fatal Vision mini series was ironically murdered by her father. What were the results of his trial and sentencing? That part I don't remember.

Satch

 

[mickey2942]

Yes, Iudith Barsi who played Kimmy in the Fatal Vision mini series was ironically murdered by her father. What were the results of his trial and sentencing? That part I don't remember.

Satch

Wow! That is crazy! I didn't know that.

 

[Zella]

Yes, Iudith Barsi who played Kimmy in the Fatal Vision mini series was ironically murdered by her father. What were the results of his trial and sentencing? That part I don't remember.

Satch

There was none. He killed his wife, his daughter, and himself in a murder-suicide.

 

[Paul B.]

Yes, according to a lady who had worked with Judith in a commercial advert, there was some questioning at the time (1988) as to why there wasn't an coronial inquest in Judith and Maria's murder but it was explained that since all the participants were dead there was no point and the case was closed.

 

[Clair Louise]

2.) It always interested me that Greg Mitchell knew so much about the case, and him writing "I killed MacDonald's wife and children" on that farm house wall always haunted me. Can you imagine studying the case and you walk in and see that?
I knew a woman who worked with the man who confessed to Jon Benet Ramsey's murder when he was teaching school in Bangkok. He was a nutter and had been let go by the school because of inappropriat behaviour. He also had written on the walls of his apartment, stuff like that.

 

[Zella]

I knew a woman who worked with the man who confessed to Jon Benet Ramsey's murder when he was teaching school in Bangkok. He was a nutter and had been let go by the school because of inappropriat behaviour. He also had written on the walls of his apartment, stuff like that.

I remember that guy! John Mark Karr. What a creep.

 

[mickey2942]

A Wilderness of Error (TV series) - Wikipedia

This is interesting, it is a series about the investigation of the McDonald's murder, errors that were made. It starts September 25, 2020.

The series examines the case of Jeffrey MacDonald, an Army surgeon who was accused of murdering his wife and two daughters on February 17, 1970. He was convicted of the crime on August 29, 1979, and has been in prison since 1982. However, MacDonald may be innocent.[3]

 

[Paul B.]

going back to Judith Barsi briefly. I just found out that because she was killed before deep fake and vocal simulation technology was invented, there is nothing her estate can legally do if Hollywood decides to simulate her digitally, as long as she looks and sounds as she did in any of her live-action roles.

 

[mickey2942]

'A Wilderness of Error' makes its own errors tackling the Jeffrey MacDonald case - CNN

 

[Rocco]

'A Wilderness of Error' makes its own errors tackling the Jeffrey MacDonald case - CNN

I found the station this will be playing on tomorrow night and plan to watch it. I've read 'Fatal Vision' and also 'Fatal Justice'. It'll be interesting to see how this is presented and if it's believable/convincing or an eye roller.

Thanks for the heads up about the show, Mickey.

 

[gitana1]

Hi Waller,

I also used to think that McDonald was innocent. Actually followed this case for about forty years and write papers from both prosecution and defense viewpoints! The biggest problems with his innocence are:

1.) There is too much inconsistency with McDonald's statements and what was found at the crime scene.

2.) MacDonald's stuttering and stammering during all of those early interviews show that he is hiding something. "This guy throws a hell of a punch" when describing the alleged attack on him. I mean, who says something like that?

3.) He goes on Dick Cavett and only talks about the botched investigation, does not once even mention the "intruders" until Cavett prompts him.

4.) The jury said that McDonald's own demeanor on the stand and strong arrogance hurt him, terribly.

5.) That living room is too neat to make his story believable.

6.) Where did Helena and her friends get these candles and when did they light them if you believe his intruder story? It was raining outside at the time, and the candle wick would have been wet, making the candle impossible to light
.
7.) If a flashlight was used, and intruders were there, how did they know the dark house so well, and knowing exactly that MacDonald would be on the couch, and the kids in their beds upon entering?

8.) On drugs or not, who is stupid enough to enter the home of a medically trained Green Barret, his pregnant wife, and three little girls thinking that they are going to win a fight against him?

9.) Why were none of these intruders not even injured in the slightest during the alleged struggle? Prosecutor Jim Blackburn said that "If MacDonald's story were true, one of those people (at least) would be dead from him fighting with them during the struggle." I say, maybe not dead, but at least very badly injured.

10.) How are all these people able to fight in such a small space in that living room? There was only about 4-6 feet between the couch and the coffee table where all of this took place.

11.) Look at the magazines, newspapers, neatly stacked underneath the overturned table. If there was a fight in the living room, the living room would look like the slaughter house that was found in the bedrooms, where the evidence shows all the fighting and horror took place.

Satch

And none of his blood was found in the living room despite supposedly being stabbed there multiple times.

The story he came up with is also ridiculous.

 

[gitana1]

The DNA evidence came back as his no one else.

I don’t think that’s actually accurate. DNA testing found that three hairs couldn’t be linked to him or his family or the two people who later claimed they had been there that night.

However, I assume people came to their house and it seems investigators and other LE were all over that house. Kind of hard to track all those people down and eliminate them.

And no DNA belonging to others was found, as far as I know, on any of the bodies or in the form of blood.

 

[gitana1]

Jeffrey MacDonald: Who Were the Suspects He Claims Killed His Family?

This is what the premise of the appeal is based on. The main suspects, Helena Stoeckly and Greg Mitchell are both dead. They were drug addicts. I still don't believe that they were involved.

And they were ruled out as matches to the hairs found.