Deceased/Not Found UK - Bernadette Walker, 17, left parent's car, Peterborough, 21 Jul 2020 *Arrests*

[Smithpanes]

Hi, not commented on this case yet. Hoping someone can help me. Were the parents charged with joint enterprise? I’m certain that’s what I read but now all I can find is “charged with murder”.

I have been wrangling this case around in my head for a while. I have lots of thoughts but before I get into this I need to go back to the beginning and be certain about the charge. TIA

Yes, both charged with joint enterprise and welcome, we look forward to hearing your views.

 

[Alyce]

Hi, not commented on this case yet. Hoping someone can help me. Were the parents charged with joint enterprise? I’m certain that’s what I read but now all I can find is “charged with murder”.

I have been wrangling this case around in my head for a while. I have lots of thoughts but before I get into this I need to go back to the beginning and be certain about the charge. TIA

Hi and Welcome ChloLo

here's a link to msm re the Joint Enterprise charge


her parents are accused of her murder by joint enterprise.


Sarah Walker and Scott Walker on trial for murder in 2021 - PeterboroughMatters.co.uk

 

[Ruthbullock]

Who suggested it? Unless from police or MSM, can't be alluded to here.

Would the cars have GPS? And/or one of them picked up on ANPR on the day/night last seen around the areas they have been searching?

They do as standard
Mercedes PRO connect

 

[Tortoise]

They do as standard
Mercedes PRO connect

Looking at your link it appears to be a technology introduced to certain fleet vehicles from 2019 and not applicable to the year and model of car they had.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Hi and Welcome ChloLo

here's a link to msm re the Joint Enterprise charge


her parents are accused of her murder by joint enterprise.


Sarah Walker and Scott Walker on trial for murder in 2021 - PeterboroughMatters.co.uk

The joint enterprise law basically meaning - and has been used to convict on such - that one or more defendants "could" have foreseen violent acts by their associate(s).

Therefore, in this case, hypothetically, one of the two may have known of violence by the other but did nothing to prevent it.

 

[Tortoise]

The joint enterprise law basically meaning - and has been used to convict on such - that one or more defendants "could" have foreseen violent acts by their associate(s).

Therefore, in this case, hypothetically, one of the two may have known of violence by the other but did nothing to prevent it.

see earlier post in the thread clarifyingthe law here - Deceased/Not Found - UK - Bernadette Walker, 17, left parent's car, Peterborough, 21 July 2020 *Arrests*

 

[ChloLo]

Thank you Smithpanes and Alyce. Much appreciated.

So regarding the allegations that ScW is/was abusive. If that were the case, I don’t see the charge as being joint enterprise. If SaW was coerced into covering etc. Then it would seem logical to that she would tell her solicitor and be using that as a sort of defence. In which case the charge would have more likely been causing or allowing the death of a child. Which is part of the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004 (DVCVA 2004). I do not like to disbelieve potential victims of domestic abuse but the charging doesn’t point me to supporting that theory. I can provide a link to CPS guidelines for joint enterprise if anyone is interested.

However, it doesn’t sit well with me that ScW went to the same college as BW, at the same time. That screams control. College should be the start of getting some independence, not as draconian as school and thinking about/planning for the future, going to university etc. Also the comment re “boys kissing you” also seems more than the usual father protecting daughter sort of comments.

It’s certainly and interesting case and I’m hoping that BW is found soon. For the sleuth in me, I’m hoping some more information is revealed soon.

 

[Smithpanes]

Thank you Smithpanes and Alyce. Much appreciated.

So regarding the allegations that ScW is/was abusive. If that were the case, I don’t see the charge as being joint enterprise. If SaW was coerced into covering etc. Then it would seem logical to that she would tell her solicitor and be using that as a sort of defence. In which case the charge would have more likely been causing or allowing the death of a child. Which is part of the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004 (DVCVA 2004). I do not like to disbelieve potential victims of domestic abuse but the charging doesn’t point me to supporting that theory. I can provide a link to CPS guidelines for joint enterprise if anyone is interested.

However, it doesn’t sit well with me that ScW went to the same college as BW, at the same time. That screams control. College should be the start of getting some independence, not as draconian as school and thinking about/planning for the future, going to university etc. Also the comment re “boys kissing you” also seems more than the usual father protecting daughter sort of comments.

It’s certainly and interesting case and I’m hoping that BW is found soon. For the sleuth in me, I’m hoping some more information is revealed soon.

I do not think it is abuse. I think she was possibly difficult and the just didn’t get on. I’m not sure though it’s JMO.
What I do not understand is... if she was innocent and had nothing to do with any of Bernies disappearance then surely when they were both in court then she would of been vocal? I bloody would of been. I’d be shouting not sat there crying. Also if the evidence was poor would they of been able to remand them? The judge surely agreed that it looks like the murdered her?
Correct me if I’m wrong? The crown prosecutor does not have to release all evidence to their solicitors until the finished building the case? This is normally weeks before the hearing or before plea day? Does anyone know?

 

[ChloLo]

This is the way my thoughts leading me. Surely, the reactions from SaW would be different if not involved.

I feel the police have some pretty solid evidence to get the charges they have. Especially without a body. I’m very interested to find out what the evidence is. I think remand is common in cases of murder, but I could be wrong. JMO

Had a quick look, from what I can find disclosure starts from when a person is charged. But is kept under review throughout the life of the case in case any evidence comes to light. There is unused material that may be added depending on the defence statement. I’m not a professional so I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[moody_chicago]

I’ve just seen someone mention all the missing posters have come down.

I wondering that too. It might just be that she took them when she was arrested or the house was a mess and they didn’t want to wait to find them? That’s all I can think of.
The fact they left Sarah’s car and took Scott’s to me says they possibly found something in it.
Also does anyone else think it strange that Bernadette ran out of the car at 1pm then sent a message a couple of days later at 1am? Maybe It’s just me that thinks that’s odd?
I wonder why they didn’t arrest Sarah when she gave the statement on the morning of the 12th then arrested her later on that day?
Im wondering if the cadaver dog picked up something in the car or house?
Really hope we hear something soon especially as the search is coming to an end.

if it’s worth anything, apparently she didn’t actually run from the car. MSM says she “jumped” out of the car but I read somewhere someone questioned why she would jump out, finding that to be concerning, as it alludes to like, urgency or danger, but Bernadettes alleged friend said she didn’t literally jump out, it’s just an English expression. She just got out normally...it’s just something to think about. It’s an English figure of speech. I think us Canadians/Americans might picture her departing as way more dramatic than it was? And I think that if she did literally leap out the car and the parents had somethjbg to do with it they probably wouldn’t have mentioned it as it sounds pretty sus. MOO

 

[Smithpanes]

if it’s worth anything, apparently she didn’t actually run from the car. MSM says she “jumped” out of the car but I read somewhere someone questioned why she would jump out, finding that to be concerning, as it alludes to like, urgency or danger, but Bernadettes alleged friend said she didn’t literally jump out, it’s just an English expression. She just got out normally...it’s just something to think about. It’s an English figure of speech. I think us Canadians/Americans might picture her departing as way more dramatic than it was? And I think that if she did literally leap out the car and the parents had somethjbg to do with it they probably wouldn’t have mentioned it as it sounds pretty sus. MOO

Did the parents not say there was a disagreement too? As this was 1pm in the afternoon surely there would of been witnesses?
It’s all pretty suss especially waiting 3 days to report her missing.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Looking at your link it appears to be a technology introduced to certain fleet vehicles from 2019 and not applicable to the year and model of car they had.

We owned one way before that and it was standard then, just an updated web page now. I’m talking 11 years ago (when we just chuckled as we didn’t believe they could do that anyway, and just thought it was for marketing to posh people). Turns out it’s a real thing and Mercedes have fitted it on their cars for a long time in the UK (and I doubt most people even know)

 

[Ruthbullock]

I’ve just had the worst thought- was BW trying to have a relationship with ScW- hence why SW had already moved on. It’s been implied ( but looking at their Instagram probably true) that they were both into photography. It’s been implied, again no proof, that the parents were separated.
I’m going out on a limb now- the age gaps are huge. Did the adults just grow apart, then separate slightly amicably as SW moved on? SW had a new squeeze and BW and ScW had got closer doing a course together after the fact. However this then caused friction - which it would.

 

[porkypies]

if it’s worth anything, apparently she didn’t actually run from the car. MSM says she “jumped” out of the car but I read somewhere someone questioned why she would jump out, finding that to be concerning, as it alludes to like, urgency or danger, but Bernadettes alleged friend said she didn’t literally jump out, it’s just an English expression. She just got out normally...it’s just something to think about. It’s an English figure of speech. I think us Canadians/Americans might picture her departing as way more dramatic than it was? And I think that if she did literally leap out the car and the parents had somethjbg to do with it they probably wouldn’t have mentioned it as it sounds pretty sus. MOO

 

[porkypies]

Saying she 'jumped' out of the car is not an English figure of speech, it's an odd way to describe how anyone could exit from a car.

 

[Homo Habilis]

I’ve just had the worst thought- was BW trying to have a relationship with ScW- hence why SW had already moved on. It’s been implied ( but looking at their Instagram probably true) that they were both into photography. It’s been implied, again no proof, that the parents were separated.
I’m going out on a limb now- the age gaps are huge. Did the adults just grow apart, then separate slightly amicably as SW moved on? SW had a new squeeze and BW and ScW had got closer doing a course together after the fact. However this then caused friction - which it would.

Yup, that thought had crossed my mind.

 

[Scorpiette]

I’ve just had the worst thought- was BW trying to have a relationship with ScW- hence why SW had already moved on. It’s been implied ( but looking at their Instagram probably true) that they were both into photography. It’s been implied, again no proof, that the parents were separated.
I’m going out on a limb now- the age gaps are huge. Did the adults just grow apart, then separate slightly amicably as SW moved on? SW had a new squeeze and BW and ScW had got closer doing a course together after the fact. However this then caused friction - which it would.

Yes, I had that thought too, at the back of my mind. Maybe SaW found out about them, and hit the roof... just a theory...

 

[moody_chicago]

Saying she 'jumped' out of the car is not an English figure of speech, it's an odd way to describe how anyone could exit from a car.

That’s what I initially thought too but then I read some comment that said that so ugh I dunno. I suck at being a web sleuth

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Saying she 'jumped' out of the car is not an English figure of speech, it's an odd way to describe how anyone could exit from a car.

I think it is valid usage if say, she was in a hurry or had been arguing. I take it to mean she made a swift exit. I don't find it 'odd' in the least. I have certainly heard it used, and read it in novels - by British authors.

 

[elliefant]

That’s what I initially thought too but then I read some comment that said that so ugh I dunno. I suck at being a web sleuth

No you don’t, Moody I’m English and there are plenty of expressions I hear English people use that I wouldn’t - and probably vice versa. I’m sure that is the same everywhere.