Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #88

[dixiegirl1035]

AstraZenaca vaccine trial shows 90% efficacy when given as a half dose, followed by a full dose one month later. 62% efficacy in a separate trial with two full doses one month apart. Combined efficacy estimate is 70%. AstraZeneca - Research-Based BioPharmaceutical Company

COVID-19: Oxford vaccine is up to 90% effective in preventing coronavirus, tests show

I went back to reread, and I'm confused. @10ofRods, can you perhaps explain how this happens as I don't understand. In the article, it's reading like "less is more" for doing the first dose. Is it because the immune system is overwhelmed if given too high a dosage on the first round?

They said they would be releasing their full report within 24 hours, so I look forward to Drs Campbell, Seheult and Hansen (approved here at WS) covering such also.

Anyone else care to explain what is going on?

From your link:

"Professor Pollard went on: "We think that by giving smaller first dose we are setting up the immune response better to respond. We will dig in more to that. We have started work this morning."

He added: "It's critical to understand what everyone is measuring. What counts as COVID disease varies between different protocols.

"If you are only counting hospitalisations then we would have bigger efficacy. We count mild disease and that is much harder to protect against."

The results will be submitted to a scientific journal for peer review within 24 hours."

The above comments reinforce that they aren't doing the PCRs during testing to catch asymptomatics? I need to go back as that was something I noted when I reviewed the protocols. They only did PCR's when symptomatic.

 

[Sprockett7701]

I quit.

CDC director said they do not recommend closing schools
After the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention removed guidelines from its website that promoted in-person learning for schools, CDC Director Robert Redfield said they do not recommend closing schools during the COVID pandemic.

Redfield’s announcement on Thursday said that schools can operate with “face to face learning” and can do it “safely and they can do it responsibly.”

“The infections that we’ve identified in schools when they’ve been evaluated were not acquired in schools,” he said.

Instead, he said, the threat was coming from small family gatherings “where people become more comfortable.”


The statement comes days after the Hillreported that documents that promoted in-person learning for schools, which were written by political appointees outside of the CDC, were removed from the website in late October without a public announcement.

I don’t blame you...is this literally not mass child abuse at this point?!

 

[Sprockett7701]

Covid-19 is spreading faster than ever before in the United States, with hospitals in some states running at capacity. The country is now in the same situation that France, Belgium and the Czech Republic were last month, when rapidly rising infections put their health care systems within weeks of failure.

But these countries have managed to avert, for now, the worst-case scenario, in which people die because hospitals are full and they can't access the care they need to survive. They slowed down the epidemics by imposing lockdowns and strict mask mandates.

Despite the clear evidence from Europe, the White House is still opposing new restrictions. "President Trump wanted me to make it clear that our task force, this administration and our President, does not support another national lockdown. And we do not support closing schools," Vice President Mike Pence said Thursday, at the first White House coronavirus task force briefing since July.

Mike Tildesley, an infectious disease modeling expert at the University Warwick and a UK government scientific adviser ...... "They need to look at the European situation, and I mean, by no means what we have done in Europe is perfect, these governments are probably reacting a little bit slowly, but they are at least reacting, they are doing what they can to make sure that health services are not overwhelmed... and I think this is clearly what's needed in the US."

Europe averted a Covid-19 collapse -- here's what the US could learn - CNN

The stark contrast between the Premier of Victoria, giving updates daily for months and a Prime Minister (of arguably one of the most powerful countries in the world) who hasn’t done an update since July...WOW!

 

[Sprockett7701]

Same here re the decorating, shopping, parties etc. We have Christmas Day and Boxing Day (26th) as national holidays, so we see my side of the family one day and the inlaws on the other, alternating each year. Huge obligation to spend it with family with a feast of a meal and nice presents and general loveliness.

I'm just not feeling it this year. Especially not the loveliness bit!

But Boris is giving you all a week out of lockdown isn’t he?! (Insert eye roll at your pleasure.) Yeah, nah...still wouldn’t find me on Oxford St shopping for pressies!!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I just tried to do an ETA on an above post of mine, darn was 1 minute over the 60 minute limit.

Anyway...

Could some of these folks that are asymptomatic be "carriers" in their nostrils or upper respiratory. Where it doesn't take hold in the lungs and be like the Energizer bunny and keep going and going and going, and is only for a time active in the nasopharynx for positive testing and no symptoms?

The nasal pharynx has ACE2 IIRC. They are located in multiple sites. Besides being in the lung, they’re in your mouth, nose, throat, stomach, small intestine, colon, skin, lymph nodes, thymus, bone marrow, spleen, liver, kidney, brain, and testes. It makes sense that if the virus only gets into your mouth or nose or throat, but not the lungs, that it would cause only cold-like symptoms. But if the virus gets all the way down into the alveoli of your lungs...

Could it be that the body fights off in the lungs due to IgG and IgM antibodies that have cross protection, yet IgA antibodies haven't wiped the nose virions out? (vs. just an issue with a smaller dose and never gets to lungs?) I have yet to see IIRC discussions of IgA which is one of the last antibodies to be developed (to be corrected by others here). Those antibodies lacking in the nasopharynx... would lead to a sort of "carrier state where they would be deemed asymptomatic yet positive on a test until the IgA antibodies developed?"

Analagous to typhoid Mary kinda situation short or longer term?

Not sure where I'm going with this.... just putting it out there as IgA hasn't been discussed in MSM at all, and not much at all from docs we follow here.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Boris Johnson, Prime Minister about to give COVID presser... about to start soon.

He's been self isolating ??how many days now???after exposure... I can't recall, is his time up for coming out of such quarantine?

ETA: just googled, will start at 2 pm eastern in United States

 

[Sprockett7701]

And here comes the stark beginning of the healthcare crunch. I am sure we are all fearful of where it goes from here.

I’ve felt like Chicken Little for months...the sky is falling...and I live in a Covid free, pretty much, country...I cannot even imagine...

ETA-auto-not correct fix

 

[Sprockett7701]

While Moderna tested on 18 or older, I did also see Pfizer went to include 12 year olds.

The others around the world have younger folks that I found at clinicaltrials.gov. (@10ofRods, if each company doesn't test children and do safety on such deomographic, does that mean they are exluded to getting that vaccine until safety and efficacy trials are done on that population, or can they extrapolate?)

1. Sinovac is doing ages 3-17 safety and immunogenicity trials
   • Safety and Immunogenicity Study of Inactivated Vaccine for Prevention of COVID-19 - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov
2. University of Oxford is doing ages 5-12 safety and immunogenicity trials
   • Investigating a Vaccine Against COVID-19 - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov
3. ETA
4. I didn't see AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson and just realized I left them off the list

Who are these people put their children forward for vaccine testing? I am unusual in thinking “Hell no, over my dead body”...but again, maybe if I was living in the US, my opinion would be different...but I really don’t think I could do that to my babies, I just don’t.

 

[Sprockett7701]

COVID-19: Gyms and non-essential retail to reopen in lead-up to Christmas

The prime minister is publishing a COVID Winter Plan, which will include tough new restrictions in England in December but a break of up to five days for Christmas.

• Non-essential retail will be allowed to open, in a boost for Christmas shoppers - and the high street
• Gyms will be allowed to open too, so the nation doesn't pile on the pounds in the run-up to Christmas
• The 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants, which critics claim did more harm than good, will be scrapped
• And a mass testing programme is to be launched in Tier 3 areas, using the Army, like the recent pilot programme in Liverpool

I’m sorry, but I just can’t like this...a break from lock down...has Boris gone completely mad?! Sleep deprived from the baby?!

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I went back to reread, and I'm confused. @10ofRods, can you perhaps explain how this happens as I don't understand. In the article, it's reading like "less is more" for doing the first dose. Is it because the immune system is overwhelmed if given too high a dosage on the first round?

They said they would be releasing their full report within 24 hours, so I look forward to Drs Campbell, Seheult and Hansen (approved here at WS) covering such also.

Anyone else care to explain what is going on?

From your link:

"Professor Pollard went on: "We think that by giving smaller first dose we are setting up the immune response better to respond. We will dig in more to that. We have started work this morning."

He added: "It's critical to understand what everyone is measuring. What counts as COVID disease varies between different protocols.

"If you are only counting hospitalisations then we would have bigger efficacy. We count mild disease and that is much harder to protect against."

The results will be submitted to a scientific journal for peer review within 24 hours."

The above comments reinforce that they aren't doing the PCRs during testing to catch asymptomatics? I need to go back as that was something I noted when I reviewed the protocols. They only did PCR's when symptomatic.

Thank goodness we have Campbell, Seheult and Hanson (and 10ofRods !!)... for the different protocols for these various vaccines are going to be so learning-intensive. I wonder if people are going to have choice, or demand choice.... to make it all the more confusing... So thanks for asking questions about that smaller dose... raised my questioning antennae right away!!

 

[drama_farmer]

Absolutely!

Before Downton Abbey, it was "Upstairs/Downstairs" on PBS. Might be available out there in the wild (YouTube/Netflix, etc)

 

[SoCalDavidS]

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Yes, I just saw this at Coronavirus Today: One wedding, 176 coronavirus cases, 7 deaths

Coronavirus Today: One wedding, 176 coronavirus cases, 7 deaths
By Amina KhanStaff Writer
Nov. 12, 2020
7:33 PM

 

[Sprockett7701]

Yes, I just saw this at Coronavirus Today: One wedding, 176 coronavirus cases, 7 deaths

Coronavirus Today: One wedding, 176 coronavirus cases, 7 deaths
By Amina KhanStaff Writer
Nov. 12, 2020
7:33 PM

Yet, still people on all platforms claiming “their rights” to not mask, not accept there is a global pandemic...it’s unreal...I don’t think I’ve seen such widespread destruction of humanity in my lifetime...because of selfish people basically...sad, sad world we live in these days. I though we grew out of being ego-centric as children...clearly not.

Anyone spruiking a bunker?

 

[ilovewings]

Yes, I just saw this at Coronavirus Today: One wedding, 176 coronavirus cases, 7 deaths

Coronavirus Today: One wedding, 176 coronavirus cases, 7 deaths
By Amina KhanStaff Writer
Nov. 12, 2020
7:33 PM

Talk about a super spreader event- take a look at the airports- thousands of people obviously do not care about contracting the virus (believe of course it won't be them or it will be "nothing" or like the flu), and are selfish to the point of not caring if they spread it, if they do have it. It is clear all messaging is lost on these people.

Part of the problem is the way messaging is being conveyed: so i am watching MSNBC and the anchor says the CDC recommends we don't travel- then she shows video of the airports with massive crowds- I am thinking about this anchor "what is wrong with you- how can you sit there and tell people that CDC recommends not traveling when you can see thousands are not listening." It is a robotic message- What she should say is , if she was not reading from a teleprompter is: It is obvious you people out there are not listening to the message from the CDC- do you understand what you are doing? a percentage of you have the virus already and you are spreading it to those around you and you will give it to your mom, grandma and grandpa- that is a given- what is wrong with you? That is what she should say. And then Dr. Torres comes on as her guest and he says "well, i can understand why people are traveling- it is a holiday"- REALLY- YOU UNDERSTAND--then he blabs about well, if you are traveling, wear a mask, social distance, blah blah blah---- Useless information. will fall on deaf ears.

 

[anneg]

Yes thanks dixie for the info. I saved it to go thru later.

Yes, I looked through the links and saved them to my reading list for future reference. Thanks, @dixiegirl1035 !

 

[SoCalDavidS]

I’m sorry, but I just can’t like this...a break from lock down...has Boris gone completely mad?! Sleep deprived from the baby?!

He's simply following the same Economy Over Lives policy that we are. It's more important that people are able to eat in restaurants & drink in pubs 24/7, and shop at non-essential stores before Christmas, than it is to control the virus as we head into the final stretch before vaccines are available.

Because forcing people to eat, drink and shop from home, with your safe circle of people, for another couple of months, is a complete and utter violation of our Freedom!!

I intend to do my best to balance out the Crazies, by not going out at all during December and probably January. There is going to be so much chaos over the next 5 weeks, Travel, Family/Friends Get Togethers, Eating @ Restaurants Indoors, Shopping Indoors, and a general fatigue from no activity the last 9 months, that the Virus is going to be spreading like Wildfire. EVERYWHERE!

It's a literal certainty at this point, by everything I'm witnessing via the news media. I came up with this analogy. Imagine there was a forecast of a Category 4/5 Hurricane about to hit, and instead of telling people to evacuate or shelter in place, we decided to have a big outdoor festival, with lots of temporary buildings, chairs, and other heavy metal objects scattered about. But not only will there be a new Cat 4/5 Hurricane hitting every day for the next couple of months, we also plan to have festivals every day as well.

 

[anneg]

Yet, still people on all platforms claiming “their rights” to not mask, not accept there is a global pandemic...it’s unreal...I don’t think I’ve seen such widespread destruction of humanity in my lifetime...because of selfish people basically...sad, sad world we live in these days. I though we grew out of being ego-centric as children...clearly not.

Anyone spruiking a bunker?

Translation, please?

 

[anneg]

He's simply following the same Economy Over Lives policy that we are. It's more important that people are able to eat in restaurants & drink in pubs 24/7, and shop at non-essential stores before Christmas, than it is to control the virus as we head into the final stretch before vaccines are available.

Because forcing people to eat, drink and shop from home, with your safe circle of people, for another couple of months, is a complete and utter violation of our Freedom!!

I intend to do my best to balance out the Crazies, by not going out at all during December and probably January. There is going to be so much chaos over the next 5 weeks, Travel, Family/Friends Get Togethers, Eating @ Restaurants Indoors, Shopping Indoors, and a general fatigue from no activity the last 9 months, that the Virus is going to be spreading like Wildfire. EVERYWHERE!

It's a literal certainty at this point, by everything I'm witnessing via the news media. I came up with this analogy. Imagine there was a forecast of a Category 4/5 Hurricane about to hit, and instead of telling people to evacuate or shelter in place, we decided to have a big outdoor festival, with lots of temporary buildings, chairs, and other heavy metal objects scattered about. But not only will there be a new Cat 4/5 Hurricane hitting every day for the next couple of months, we also plan to have festivals every day as well.

That's a good analogy, IMO!

 

[anneg]

I just tried to do an ETA on an above post of mine, darn was 1 minute over the 60 minute limit.

Anyway...

Could some of these folks that are asymptomatic be "carriers" in their nostrils or upper respiratory. Where it doesn't take hold in the lungs and be like the Energizer bunny and keep going and going and going, and is only for a time active in the nasopharynx for positive testing and no symptoms?

The nasal pharynx has ACE2 IIRC. They are located in multiple sites. Besides being in the lung, they’re in your mouth, nose, throat, stomach, small intestine, colon, skin, lymph nodes, thymus, bone marrow, spleen, liver, kidney, brain, and testes. It makes sense that if the virus only gets into your mouth or nose or throat, but not the lungs, that it would cause only cold-like symptoms. But if the virus gets all the way down into the alveoli of your lungs...

Could it be that the body fights off in the lungs due to IgG and IgM antibodies that have cross protection, yet IgA antibodies haven't wiped the nose virions out? (vs. just an issue with a smaller dose and never gets to lungs?) I have yet to see IIRC discussions of IgA which is one of the last antibodies to be developed (to be corrected by others here). Those antibodies lacking in the nasopharynx... would lead to a sort of "carrier state where they would be deemed asymptomatic yet positive on a test until the IgA antibodies developed?"

Analagous to typhoid Mary kinda situation short or longer term?

Not sure where I'm going with this.... just putting it out there as IgA hasn't been discussed in MSM at all, and not much at all from docs we follow here.

I went back to reread, and I'm confused. @10ofRods, can you perhaps explain how this happens as I don't understand. In the article, it's reading like "less is more" for doing the first dose. Is it because the immune system is overwhelmed if given too high a dosage on the first round?

They said they would be releasing their full report within 24 hours, so I look forward to Drs Campbell, Seheult and Hansen (approved here at WS) covering such also.

Anyone else care to explain what is going on?

From your link:

"Professor Pollard went on: "We think that by giving smaller first dose we are setting up the immune response better to respond. We will dig in more to that. We have started work this morning."

He added: "It's critical to understand what everyone is measuring. What counts as COVID disease varies between different protocols.

"If you are only counting hospitalisations then we would have bigger efficacy. We count mild disease and that is much harder to protect against."

The results will be submitted to a scientific journal for peer review within 24 hours."

The above comments reinforce that they aren't doing the PCRs during testing to catch asymptomatics? I need to go back as that was something I noted when I reviewed the protocols. They only did PCR's when symptomatic.

Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding has an interesting thread on Twitter about the Oxford/Astrazeneca vaccine:
https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1330785038737281025

I don't know how to copy the posts and put them here, sorry.