Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #2

[LietKynes]

IMO there is definitely some serious assumptions going on from the FBI and LE. Speculating they completely scraped out the fireplace ... they dug in the back yard... I mean these things aren’t normally done right away IMO.

bbm
At the very least, LE probably took a good look in there; since they felt it necessary to start digging early on.
MOO

Wow. How in the world did I miss that? Link please?

I think the above poster was theorizing.

Just the digging part alone, was so disheartening.
My guess is that anything else that was done in the house re. the search is being kept from the media/public.
And even if something was taken apart (drywall, flooring, plumbing , etc.) the AP's are not going to want to divulge that, either.

Have to go and read the media thread as I've forgotten how soon --after the SW was executed-- did they leave the house ?
Did they look at what was searched and disturbed including the back yard dirt; and what was their reaction ?
Maybe LE know this already.
Imo.

 

[Luckyzmom]

We don't have any idea what evidence LE had collected either we discuss and kick out thoughts around or no one does. If you have an idea though it out as opinion only ! Mods are on this they will absolutely let us know if out of bounds MOO. If I am wrong Please delete with my apologies TIA

 

[Jax49]

bbm
At the very least, LE probably took a good look in there; since they felt it necessary to start digging early on.
MOO


I think the above poster was theorizing.

Just the digging part alone, was so disheartening.
My guess is that anything else that was done in the house re. the search is being kept from the media/public.
And even if something was taken apart (drywall, flooring, plumbing , etc.) the AP's are not going to want to divulge that, either.

Have to go and read the media thread as I've forgotten how soon --after the SW was executed-- did they leave the house ?
Did they look at what was searched and disturbed including the back yard dirt; and what was their reaction ?
Maybe LE know this already.
Imo.

Originally the poster claimed that the fireplace was cleaned out by LE, but changed it to speculation when they were unable to provide a link.

 

[LietKynes]

We don't have any idea what evidence LE had collected either we discuss and kick out thoughts around or no one does. If you have an idea though it out as opinion only ! Mods are on this they will absolutely let us know if out of bounds MOO. If I am wrong Please delete with my apologies TIA

bbm
Agreed.

I wish there was a break in this case.
Two precious little ones, that did not vanish into the night via the back gate.
LE don't seem to think it was a stranger abduction.
So what happened to them ?
Imo.

 

[rosesfromangels]

bbm
Agreed.

I wish there was a break in this case.
Two precious little ones, that did not vanish into the night via the back gate.
LE don't seem to think it was a stranger abduction.
So what happened to them ?
Imo.

What happened indeed!
I haven't heard anything (yet) to confirm that these two boys were ever in California City at all. (Unless I missed that). If required to focus my resources and efforts, it would be in Bakersfield.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[10ofRods]

I suspect it will take a while for lab results to be fully processed in this case (especially in hard-hit, COVID-suffering Kern County, where all public resources are stretched right now).

The lab results should show whether those boys were ever in the house, etc.

 

[Megnut]

I suspect it will take a while for lab results to be fully processed in this case (especially in hard-hit, COVID-suffering Kern County, where all public resources are stretched right now).

The lab results should show whether those boys were ever in the house, etc.

They need source DNA!

We don't know that there are ANY toothbrushes, toys, clothes, hairbrushes belonging to those boys. If they gave blood siblings in the same house, I guess they can account for THEIR DNA....

It's confusing whether the little boys are part of a four-sibling group or not....

I guess they can try comparing all DNA back to the known bio mom.... to determine 8 profiles (two parents plus six children).

What if NOTHING of the boys remain? Nothing with their scent, nothing with their DNA? Hopefully there are stray hairs on their carseats... or something....

JMO

 

[charminglane]

Maybe birth mother has hair or teether or something as a last resort that she kept.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Progressive speculation in my thought pattern finds the fireplace a key element. my opinion all along. following language from day one. jmo imo moo omo

 

[Jo in Calif]

Maybe birth mother has hair or teether or something as a last resort that she kept.

She has mitochondrial DNA, she wouldn't need any of the other things.

 

[Laughing]

She has mitochondrial DNA, she wouldn't need any of the other things.

The state possibly has paternity testing results as well, cheek swab AFAIK.

(In the '90's that was a blood draw. I was a paternity specialist at Child Support Enforcement. First person to roll up their sleeve was generally right.)

 

[Campizi67]

"We all act different"

I've been reading the comment sections from several different news articles in regard to O and O's disappearance and the one above stood out. It was referencing the reactions/demeanor of the adoptive parents; as many are trying to see both sides. But it's beginning to bother me.

Do we really act differently, I believe it's rather quite the contrary. Time and time again, a guilty person/s usually exhibit very similar behaviors as do persons of innocence.

The individuals who do in fact "act differently" seem to be those who have a drug problem or a true mental problem.

I mean....am I wrong?

I'm all for benefit of the doubt, but human nature characteristics by definition are Self-interest, humanity-interest and life-interest. So as humans we, by and large, act similar most of the time.

When we hear a persons testimony or story, there ARE tell tale signs of deception, truth, and/or innocence.

Just a little observation I wanted to share. All may not agree and that's ok!!!! Always appreciate everyone and all of your great input and help in the greater purpose which is helping to find lost loved ones

Everything is always Imo

 

[charminglane]

She has mitochondrial DNA, she wouldn't need any of the other things.

Thank you for setting my head on straight!
Fingers flying typing while brain out of gear.

 

[Knox]

"We all act different"

I've been reading the comment sections from several different news articles in regard to O and O's disappearance and the one above stood out. It was referencing the reactions/demeanor of the adoptive parents; as many are trying to see both sides. But it's beginning to bother me.

Do we really act differently, I believe it's rather quite the contrary. Time and time again, a guilty person/s usually exhibit very similar behaviors as do persons of innocence.

The individuals who do in fact "act differently" seem to be those who have a drug problem or a true mental problem.

I mean....am I wrong?

I'm all for benefit of the doubt, but human nature characteristics by definition are Self-interest, humanity-interest and life-interest. So as humans we, by and large, act similar most of the time.

When we hear a persons testimony or story, there ARE tell tale signs of deception, truth, and/or innocence.

Just a little observation I wanted to share. All may not agree and that's ok!!!! Always appreciate everyone and all of your great input and help in the greater purpose which is helping to find lost loved ones

Everything is always Imo

I was nodding my head in complete agreement as I read your post. Then I remembered how convinced I was that Heidi Broussard's SO had done something to her. Barbara Thomas' husband also. So while I do agree for the most part, behavior is just not always a true indicator of guilt.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

"We all act different"

I've been reading the comment sections from several different news articles in regard to O and O's disappearance and the one above stood out. It was referencing the reactions/demeanor of the adoptive parents; as many are trying to see both sides. But it's beginning to bother me.

Do we really act differently, I believe it's rather quite the contrary. Time and time again, a guilty person/s usually exhibit very similar behaviors as do persons of innocence.

The individuals who do in fact "act differently" seem to be those who have a drug problem or a true mental problem.

I mean....am I wrong?

I'm all for benefit of the doubt, but human nature characteristics by definition are Self-interest, humanity-interest and life-interest. So as humans we, by and large, act similar most of the time.

When we hear a persons testimony or story, there ARE tell tale signs of deception, truth, and/or innocence.

Just a little observation I wanted to share. All may not agree and that's ok!!!! Always appreciate everyone and all of your great input and help in the greater purpose which is helping to find lost loved ones

Everything is always Imo

For me it's not just the body language,and demeanor. It's what is actually said. Especially about leaving the gate open. Seeing them outside, going inside,then not seeing them outside. But the first thing he did was look inside where he already had been. It doesn't make any sense. Think about it. What's the first thing your going to do when a gate is left open,and you have two toddlers that where outside when you were inside. Then when you go back outside poof they're gone,and the gate open. Are A. Going to search high,and low inside.
B. Tear your butt out the gate and look for them. Scream out their names. Frantically knock on neighbor's doors. Make a lot of noise. MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

For me it's not just the body language,and demeanor. It's what is actually said. Especially about leaving the gate open. Seeing them outside, going inside,then not seeing them outside. But the first thing he did was look inside where he already had been. It doesn't make any sense. Think about it. What's the first thing your going to do when a gate is left open,and you have two toddlers that where outside when you were inside. Then when you go back outside poof they're gone,and the gate open. Are A. Going to search high,and low inside.
B. Tear your butt out the gate and look for them. Scream out their names. Frantically knock on neighbor's doors. Make a lot of noise. MOO

None of their actions make sense to me.
FBI has no doubt reviewed their interview tape and already knows whether they are involved in the disappearance or not.

I watched the court trial for murdered baby Dylan Grove last night while thinking about this case. If you need your faith restored in foster parents, watch the testimony of the foster mom in that case; a teacher. The testimony from the Coroner and how the baby was found was revolting and mesmerizing at the same time. HOW do humans do something so incredibly evil? HOW?
The murdering parents looked so average, so incapable of such an unspeakable act.

I rarely click on kids threads because they just upset me so much. It is clear to me that we need to change the laws and have special sentences for those who murder children, elderly, and disabled. That's a special brand of evil and demands special sentencing.

\Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Campizi67]

For me it's not just the body language,and demeanor. It's what is actually said. Especially about leaving the gate open. Seeing them outside, going inside,then not seeing them outside. But the first thing he did was look inside where he already had been. It doesn't make any sense. Think about it. What's the first thing your going to do when a gate is left open,and you have two toddlers that where outside when you were inside. Then when you go back outside poof they're gone,and the gate open. Are A. Going to search high,and low inside.
B. Tear your butt out the gate and look for them. Scream out their names. Frantically knock on neighbor's doors. Make a lot of noise. MOO

Completely agree! I should have added ones words to be included.

 

[Campizi67]

I was nodding my head in complete agreement as I read your post. Then I remembered how convinced I was that Heidi Broussard's SO had done something to her. Barbara Thomas' husband also. So while I do agree for the most part, behavior is just not always a true indicator of guilt.

Thank you. Great comparison. I recall the cases and see your point. MH, the "friend" who murdered Heidi, was sick imo. Those are the ones that I mentioned are usually difficult to figure out because they do in fact act different....imo

 

[wary]

They need source DNA!

We don't know that there are ANY toothbrushes, toys, clothes, hairbrushes belonging to those boys. If they gave blood siblings in the same house, I guess they can account for THEIR DNA....

It's confusing whether the little boys are part of a four-sibling group or not....

I guess they can try comparing all DNA back to the known bio mom.... to determine 8 profiles (two parents plus six children).

What if NOTHING of the boys remain? Nothing with their scent, nothing with their DNA? Hopefully there are stray hairs on their carseats... or something....

JMO

I think that the only reason we’re even wondering if they were part of a ‘four sibling group’ is that in their statement, the family members of their adoptive parents (I’m not phrasing it this way to distance them, just for clarity,) made the strong point that they’re part of a six sibling group. Two siblings by birth, and four, in two groups of two, by adoption.

And I think that we have strong evidence that they’re not ‘birth siblings’ of the other two adopted siblings—if they were, I think the birth mother would have been quite vocal on the subject, (and I wouldn’t blame her.)

 

[Ontario Mom]

Progressive speculation in my thought pattern finds the fireplace a key element. my opinion all along. following language from day one. jmo imo moo omo

Interesting, I would have never considered the fireplace to have any importance at all.
Curious what language you heard/read that leads you there?