Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #2

[imstilla.grandma]

Interesting, I would have never considered the fireplace to have any importance at all.
Curious what language you heard/read that leads you there?

All the talk about firewood, fire, cold, throwing wood...
I posted somewhere upthread about the possibility of a targeted search for a new home with a fireplace. It seemed to be the focal theme of the interview, not the boys. Speculation: quick and hidden way to destroy anything remaining from previous residence and explain away other possible undisclosed sightings of carrying firewood. It makes me wonder how many fires he had lit that day or previous days. maybe? Idk. a running thought in my brain.

 

[musemoon]

"We all act different"

I've been reading the comment sections from several different news articles in regard to O and O's disappearance and the one above stood out. It was referencing the reactions/demeanor of the adoptive parents; as many are trying to see both sides. But it's beginning to bother me.

Do we really act differently, I believe it's rather quite the contrary. Time and time again, a guilty person/s usually exhibit very similar behaviors as do persons of innocence.

The individuals who do in fact "act differently" seem to be those who have a drug problem or a true mental problem.

I mean....am I wrong?

I'm all for benefit of the doubt, but human nature characteristics by definition are Self-interest, humanity-interest and life-interest. So as humans we, by and large, act similar most of the time.

When we hear a persons testimony or story, there ARE tell tale signs of deception, truth, and/or innocence.

Just a little observation I wanted to share. All may not agree and that's ok!!!! Always appreciate everyone and all of your great input and help in the greater purpose which is helping to find lost loved ones

Everything is always Imo

When my mother was murdered I was the one to find her. I was with LE and they had kicked in the door to find her murdered on the foyer floor. MY MOTHER! My best friend on this earth and the woman I loved with all of my heart. For a minute, I was a person of interest and I have to say at that moment and for the whole 12 hours that they grilled me and my sister I could not cry. I was matter of fact, I was shocked, I was stunned, but I didn't cry, I didn't feel. When an officer offered me condolences I actually pretended to cry so that they didn't keep considering me a POI in the murder. In fact, I asked not to see the body again to say goodbye and we wanted her cremated as soon as the autopsy was done. AND then...a week later, I couldn't stop crying and I've cried every day for two years and now I have PTSD from the event...so I have to say, we all do act differently...we just do. I don't think that means the parents weren't involved, I don't know, we have so few facts in the case, but I do know, based on my own reactions, we do all act very differently. I did the same thing when my baby brother died. I was actually happy cause he'd had such a long battle with cancer and then two days later I was never the same again...

 

[katydid23]

I was nodding my head in complete agreement as I read your post. Then I remembered how convinced I was that Heidi Broussard's SO had done something to her. Barbara Thomas' husband also. So while I do agree for the most part, behavior is just not always a true indicator of guilt.

Also, [can't believe I forgot the child's name]....but there was a 5 yr old girl, I think from Phoenix, who went to a Little League baseball game with her family, went to bed and was missing in the morning when her Mom got up for work.

I believe her father's name was Sergio? He became the number one suspect in the public's eyes. His 911 call was a concern. he sounded so calm and measured about his baby girl being gone.

The way he talked about the circumstances seemed inconsistent. Most of us here were certain he was the guilty party. Turned out that it was actually a sexual predator that climbed into her window and abducted her that night. He had seen a car for sale on the property and stopped to talk to the Dad about it once, and saw the little girl. [Mariella?].

I think there are 'outliers'----people who act different than most , but are still innocent.

 

[katydid23]

I was nodding my head in complete agreement as I read your post. Then I remembered how convinced I was that Heidi Broussard's SO had done something to her. Barbara Thomas' husband also. So while I do agree for the most part, behavior is just not always a true indicator of guilt.

Also, [can't believe I forgot the child's name]....but there was a 5 yr old girl, I think from Phoenix, who went to a Little League baseball game with her family, went to bed and was missing in the morning when her Mom got up for work.

I believe her father's name was Sergio? He became the number one suspect in the public's eyes. His 911 call was a concern. he sounded so calm and measured about his baby girl being gone.

The way he talked about the circumstances seemed inconsistent. Most of us here were certain he was the guilty party. Turned out that it was actually a sexual predator that climbed into her window and abducted her that night. He had seen a car for sale on the property and stopped to talk to the Dad about it once, and saw the little girl. [Mariella?].

I think there are 'outliers'----people who act different than most , but are still innocent.

I think that the only reason we’re even wondering if they were part of a ‘four sibling group’ is that in their statement, the family members of their adoptive parents (I’m not phrasing it this way to distance them, just for clarity,) made the strong point that they’re part of a six sibling group. Two siblings by birth, and four, in two groups of two, by adoption.

And I think that we have strong evidence that they’re not ‘birth siblings’ of the other two adopted siblings—if they were, I think the birth mother would have been quite vocal on the subject, (and I wouldn’t blame her.)

I agree. I think she would haver been publicly demanding that the oldest two be placed with her or her family at this time. IF they were her bio children too.

 

[MoeInVA]

When did the local grandparents last see them? Why are the photos all 1-2 years old? What excuse was given for not seeing them? Answers are needed.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Also, [can't believe I forgot the child's name]....but there was a 5 yr old girl, I think from Phoenix, who went to a Little League baseball game with her family, went to bed and was missing in the morning when her Mom got up for work.

I believe her father's name was Sergio? He became the number one suspect in the public's eyes. His 911 call was a concern. he sounded so calm and measured about his baby girl being gone.

The way he talked about the circumstances seemed inconsistent. Most of us here were certain he was the guilty party. Turned out that it was actually a sexual predator that climbed into her window and abducted her that night. He had seen a car for sale on the property and stopped to talk to the Dad about it once, and saw the little girl. [Mariella?].

I think there are 'outliers'----people who act different than most , but are still innocent.

Isabel Celis. She is one who stays with me.

 

[susiQ]

When my mother was murdered I was the one to find her. I was with LE and they had kicked in the door to find her murdered on the foyer floor. MY MOTHER! My best friend on this earth and the woman I loved with all of my heart. For a minute, I was a person of interest and I have to say at that moment and for the whole 12 hours that they grilled me and my sister I could not cry. I was matter of fact, I was shocked, I was stunned, but I didn't cry, I didn't feel. When an officer offered me condolences I actually pretended to cry so that they didn't keep considering me a POI in the murder. In fact, I asked not to see the body again to say goodbye and we wanted her cremated as soon as the autopsy was done. AND then...a week later, I couldn't stop crying and I've cried every day for two years and now I have PTSD from the event...so I have to say, we all do act differently...we just do. I don't think that means the parents weren't involved, I don't know, we have so few facts in the case, but I do know, based on my own reactions, we do all act very differently. I did the same thing when my baby brother died. I was actually happy cause he'd had such a long battle with cancer and then two days later I was never the same again...

So sorry for your great loss and pain @musemoon :*( Thank you for sharing and helping us understand.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

None of their actions make sense to me.
FBI has no doubt reviewed their interview tape and already knows whether they are involved in the disappearance or not.

I watched the court trial for murdered baby Dylan Grove last night while thinking about this case. If you need your faith restored in foster parents, watch the testimony of the foster mom in that case; a teacher. The testimony from the Coroner and how the baby was found was revolting and mesmerizing at the same time. HOW do humans do something so incredibly evil? HOW?
The murdering parents looked so average, so incapable of such an unspeakable act.

I rarely click on kids threads because they just upset me so much. It is clear to me that we need to change the laws and have special sentences for those who murder children, elderly, and disabled. That's a special brand of evil and demands special sentencing.

\Amateur opinion and speculation

Still POed as all let out at that. Heads should roll,and not just the scummy bio parents. MOO

 

[Campizi67]

When my mother was murdered I was the one to find her. I was with LE and they had kicked in the door to find her murdered on the foyer floor. MY MOTHER! My best friend on this earth and the woman I loved with all of my heart. For a minute, I was a person of interest and I have to say at that moment and for the whole 12 hours that they grilled me and my sister I could not cry. I was matter of fact, I was shocked, I was stunned, but I didn't cry, I didn't feel. When an officer offered me condolences I actually pretended to cry so that they didn't keep considering me a POI in the murder. In fact, I asked not to see the body again to say goodbye and we wanted her cremated as soon as the autopsy was done. AND then...a week later, I couldn't stop crying and I've cried every day for two years and now I have PTSD from the event...so I have to say, we all do act differently...we just do. I don't think that means the parents weren't involved, I don't know, we have so few facts in the case, but I do know, based on my own reactions, we do all act very differently. I did the same thing when my baby brother died. I was actually happy cause he'd had such a long battle with cancer and then two days later I was never the same again...

I am so deeply sorry for your loss. Your grief must be immense. I have no idea what you feel or are going through as I have not experienced such a loss, but I pray for you to be comforted.

 

[PommyMommy]

JAN 10, 2021
Human remains found near Rosamond, bone found in Bakersfield; neither related to two missing boys in California City | KGET 17
It’s been almost three weeks since two little boys were reported missing in California City. Today – there were reports of remains found in two separate cities. Search parties are getting smaller but there are still a few people looking for the two boys.

[...]

This group of bakersfield residents has gone out to search almost everyday this past week. They scan the roads and fields near the Casa Loma Apartments in east Bakersfield.

[...]

They’ve seen a few questionable items – but they called Bakersfield Police after seeing a bone that looked like a human foot.

[...]

Police came and took a look. They consulted the coroner who determined that it seemed to be a bone from a goat.

“We’re just going to continue to search every field, canal, empty field, reservoir in the area that we can just to cover all bases because these boys need to be found,” Grandson said.

[...]

Video at the link

 

[dandyda]

Hi there! I’m a forensics student (so close to graduating) so I’ll do my best to help explain! First off, let me say that I don’t have any training on chalk itself, but I do believe it’d be very difficult although not impossible to lift prints. As far as prints in general go, yes, we often use powders BUT we have MANY techniques. We use ninhydrin on porous papers and cardboards. We also use a cyanoacrylate (super glue) fuming chamber for difficult to dust items. There are also sprays used in conjunction with UV lights (couldn’t do with chalk because getting it wet would disintegrate it). One option that I think would be most promising (still hard) would be mikrosil. Its basically a rubber putty that you spread on the surface, it dries, and you peel it off resulting in a rubberized cast of the impression. It’s often done for tool marks, but I have used it on occasion for prints. I would have to test chalks to see if any would work, but there are many ways we get prints besides powders. Also, contrary to popular belief, people don’t always leave fingerprints behind. Prints come from your oils and sweat, or you touching something (ex paint or blood) and transferring that medium to a surface. Some people don’t release much oil/sweat. Especially in cold weather. Theoretically the boys could’ve touched things and not left prints, although it’s unlikely. Now if they had something on their hands and touched the chalk (something sticky maybe) they could’ve transferred prints to the chalk that might be able to be examined. Also, if they touched the chalk and left clear prints on other items such as the concrete or door you could try to lift those directly because, hey it’s already a powdered print!
Anyway, that’s been my experience so hope this helps!

Wow! What an amazing reply. Thank you for your time and congratulations on being so close to being done! Everything you explained made so much sense and I’m sure the LE is on it. If anything, prints or not, it would help to prove/disprove the AP story.

Thank you again! Your career choice seems so interesting.

 

[LietKynes]

All the talk about firewood, fire, cold, throwing wood...
I posted somewhere upthread about the possibility of a targeted search for a new home with a fireplace. It seemed to be the focal theme of the interview, not the boys. Speculation: quick and hidden way to destroy anything remaining from previous residence and explain away other possible undisclosed sightings of carrying firewood. It makes me wonder how many fires he had lit that day or previous days. maybe? Idk. a running thought in my brain.

My guess here was maybe something was found in a fireplace that was unusual ?
Like clothes or bedding ?
Maybe just some old books that would've been age-appropriates for Orrin and Orson ?
Something about the AD's comments made me uneasy ; as if he mentioned gathering wood for a reason ?
Imo.

 

[Lusitana]

"We all act different"

I've been reading the comment sections from several different news articles in regard to O and O's disappearance and the one above stood out. It was referencing the reactions/demeanor of the adoptive parents; as many are trying to see both sides. But it's beginning to bother me.

Do we really act differently, I believe it's rather quite the contrary. Time and time again, a guilty person/s usually exhibit very similar behaviors as do persons of innocence.

The individuals who do in fact "act differently" seem to be those who have a drug problem or a true mental problem.

I mean....am I wrong?

I'm all for benefit of the doubt, but human nature characteristics by definition are Self-interest, humanity-interest and life-interest. So as humans we, by and large, act similar most of the time.

When we hear a persons testimony or story, there ARE tell tale signs of deception, truth, and/or innocence.

Just a little observation I wanted to share. All may not agree and that's ok!!!! Always appreciate everyone and all of your great input and help in the greater purpose which is helping to find lost loved ones

Everything is always Imo

I don’t know, while I agree to some extent, I’m actually one of those awkward persons who just can’t handle attention when times are rough. I’m social and an extrovert, but if I’m in pain or having problems? Don’t mention it, don’t ask me if I’m okay, just let me be.

I’m the “keep going, don’t think about it” type of gal. And it does build up emotions and then, I’m bound to break and cry.

But God, I can’t see myself being so calm and collected if two little kids were missing. I would’ve felt so guilty and so desperate.

 

[Kaykedi]

All the talk about firewood, fire, cold, throwing wood...
I posted somewhere upthread about the possibility of a targeted search for a new home with a fireplace. It seemed to be the focal theme of the interview, not the boys. Speculation: quick and hidden way to destroy anything remaining from previous residence and explain away other possible undisclosed sightings of carrying firewood. It makes me wonder how many fires he had lit that day or previous days. maybe? Idk. a running thought in my brain.

The AP's interview made my brain ache imstilla.grandma. SO confusing (the way that they answer questions). The complete lack of emotion, no sense of panic, the AF with his hands tightly hidden away. I barely know what to say

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The AP's interview made my brain ache imstilla.grandma. SO confusing (the way that they answer questions). The complete lack of emotion, no sense of panic, the AF with his hands tightly hidden away. I barely know what to say

It’s certainly unexpected behavior and focused language. I agree.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Orrin and Orson West Case Archive:

Orrin and Orson West -CA-

 

[Rachelj1]

Progressive speculation in my thought pattern finds the fireplace a key element. my opinion all along. following language from day one. jmo imo moo omo

I agree with your opinion. The firewood that the adoptive dad claims he was getting for a fire is just Odd IMO . If you really think about it seems he may of been covering himself. My question to those 2 would be... what’s it going to take to turn on each other ?

 

[Rachelj1]

All the talk about firewood, fire, cold, throwing wood...
I posted somewhere upthread about the possibility of a targeted search for a new home with a fireplace. It seemed to be the focal theme of the interview, not the boys. Speculation: quick and hidden way to destroy anything remaining from previous residence and explain away other possible undisclosed sightings of carrying firewood. It makes me wonder how many fires he had lit that day or previous days. maybe? Idk. a running thought in my brain.

WE definitely think similar !

 

[Rachelj1]

My guess here was maybe something was found in a fireplace that was unusual ?
Like clothes or bedding ?
Maybe just some old books that would've been age-appropriates for Orrin and Orson ?
Something about the AD's comments made me uneasy ; as if he mentioned gathering wood for a reason ?
Imo.

Exactly ! Was he covering himself for possibly having fires?

 

[Bbybluz]

Good morning fellow sleuths, I pray today brings some clues to the boys.

I have sat back here in my corner just reading, agreeing, disagreeing & scratching my head. I have highlighted text to quote, as I am catching up for the day, but then delete that thought if it has been further answered. I must have done this a few dozen times lol. It’s nice to be among such a smart, inquisitive, thought producing group of caring people!

I thought I would share a few of my own “ponderings”. I would love feedback & if possible a link if it has already been provided to give my thoughts a foundation to build on. As I said these are MY OWN THOUGHTS & CURIOSITIES.

1. Have you ever followed a case 3 weeks in with as little clues as this? The reason I ask is to be able to go research your link to find out why. I have faith in the LE & do believe they have many of the pieces to this puzzle minus the “whereabouts of the boys”. What I don’t understand is why the extended families aren’t speaking up? Let us help you find your boys! What were your observation on the interview? Was your family member (TW &/or JW) acting normal for their stress level?
   
2. Did the West’s have another home they stayed in at the same time as the CC timeline?
   
3. Did they visit family members a lot Parents, Siblings, Friends anyone close by on a regular basis? When did you last see them or hear from them on the phone? Did you hear the boys in the background? Where you told O & O had went to a relatives house to play or visit for a bit? What does the Grandma’s think? As a grandma myself I make it my pleasure to talk to my grandgift regularly. I also can tell when my “granny meter” is off balanced.
4. Did the family have a favorite park &/or lake they like to visit in the summer? Could burnt bones be weighted down in a lake or marsh? Has this place been searched?
   
5. Have the LE asked the family to not talk to the public? Could a family member other then parents be directly involved? I mean no disrespect to anyone these are my thoughts only to bring light on the boys.
6. What have the Bakersfield residence been saying? I find it hard to believe so many lips can remain quiet.
7. Has the van been spotted on cameras in Bakersfield? While they were shopping for groceries in the past 8 months where all 6 children or at least the youngest 2 visible?
8. How long have they had this van? Did they recently get rid of a vehicle?
9. Was their home equipped with a security system? I started learning how that all worked with the door censors & it being able to tell how long a moving body was in each room. Was their more then the one security camera inside their own home?
10. Could the boys have been involved in a prearranged handoff? Leaving the 21st a day of memorizing their “story”? I viewed their interview as a check off list more then an statement to the public. When TW would sway from the “list” JW would finish it up or include forgotten details like when she inverse very fast “from our yard”. TW feeling the need to say he looked both ways reminds me of what our parents would tell us about crossing the street when young.