Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

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Knox said:
AJ Freund, but we could go on forever.

I'm not assigning blame to CPS in this case however, not yet anyway. RD has made various statements in MSM regarding how she didn't even know the boys were adopted, etc., however I'm not sure much of what she said is factual. Over a year later there were no attempts on her part to take legal action, until the boys came up missing. I'm trying to have compassion for her, but keeping it real at the same time.
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I agree. By all accounts, it appears that not one but two very young children were removed from her care and custody and until they were reported missing, no evidence that they were in any danger with the West couple. I have compassion for all here but also think she's been very selective with her responses. Keeping it real. MOO
 
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mickey2942 said:
So, basically we are back at square one. No actual named "Person of Interest". It is odd that the children in the home were removed, without any charges against the parents. Especially the biological children.
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I agree that it is odd that all 4 of the other children were removed from the home. It made me wonder, if there is any suspicion of criminal or concerning activity against foster parents that results in their biological children being removed at least temporarily, does CPS allow their foster children to be returned to their care, if investigation determines they're innocent? Or are they placed in a new permanent foster home? Perhaps it depends how long they have been in the home and if they are working toward adoption. I've had some experience with children in foster care, but I don't know how this situation would work out.

kittythehare said:
No, I expect it's standard when two tiny children in the care of two allegedly responsible adults go missing without a trace
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I would certainly hope that if 1 or 2 of my kids went missing and my husband and I *weren't POIs*, that our other children would be allowed to remain with us. It's hard for me to reconcile LE/CPS decisions regarding the other children, with their statements regarding APs' status as non-POIs.
 
TLobo said:
I agree that it is odd that all 4 of the other children were removed from the home. It made me wonder, if there is any suspicion of criminal or concerning activity against foster parents that results in their biological children being removed at least temporarily, does CPS allow their foster children to be returned to their care, if investigation determines they're innocent? Or are they placed in a new permanent foster home? Perhaps it depends how long they have been in the home and if they are working toward adoption. I've had some experience with children in foster care, but I don't know how this situation would work out.



I would certainly hope that if 1 or 2 of my kids went missing and my husband and I *weren't POIs*, that our other children would be allowed to remain with us. It's hard for me to reconcile LE/CPS decisions regarding the other children, with their statements regarding APs' status as non-POIs.
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Exactly. No charges. I can definitely see why the other foster kids were pulled. But the biological children as well? If these folks have not been charged, and if the children are in good health, why were they taken away?
 
mickey2942 said:
Exactly. No charges. I can definitely see why the other foster kids were pulled. But the biological children as well? If these folks have not been charged, and if the children are in good health, why were they taken away?
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This is pure speculation so I probably shouldn't even post it this way but they probably have more on them which warranted taking all the children from them OR it's standard procedure in a missing children case and I would tend to think the latter.

JMO
 
IMO watching the video that LE released, it seems clear 4 children accompanied the parents into the van leaving the home. However, on their return, it is not clear to me that only the two adults exit the van. I see one person exit the passenger side very quickly & walk towards the house, leaving the van door open. Then, I see the driver's door open, someone exits, checks the mailbox, and then walks to the open passenger door. Is it possible that the two little ones were in the van & the driver goes to the passenger side to assist them out? Why did the passenger leave the door open though? A van is not a 2 door vehicle. Are you guys seeing what I'm seeing or no?
 
mickey2942 said:
Exactly. No charges. I can definitely see why the other foster kids were pulled. But the biological children as well? If these folks have not been charged, and if the children are in good health, why were they taken away?
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I think CPS would remove all the children if there were past allegations of abuse, or if their investigation uncovered signs of abuse or neglect.

Every situation is different. Children can be healthy but if they are not up to date in annual medical checkups, immunizations or dentist appointments, or if they have a record of excessive absences from school, truancy, etc, it is considered neglect. Imo

In this case the Wests were able to foster several children and were approved for adoption so I would think the children were well cared for. CPS must have a reason, though.
 
MichelleBlue said:
IMO watching the video that LE released, it seems clear 4 children accompanied the parents into the van leaving the home. However, on their return, it is not clear to me that only the two adults exit the van. I see one person exit the passenger side very quickly & walk towards the house, leaving the van door open. Then, I see the driver's door open, someone exits, checks the mailbox, and then walks to the open passenger door. Is it possible that the two little ones were in the van & the driver goes to the passenger side to assist them out? Why did the passenger leave the door open though? A van is not a 2 door vehicle. Are you guys seeing what I'm seeing or no?
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You know I did notice the passenger side !! I need to watch it again now!
 
Rachelj1 said:
You know I did notice the passenger side !! I need to watch it again now!
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Actually, after watching again, it also appears the children enter the van through the front passenger door when they are departing the house. Maybe they use that front passenger door for loading and unloading the kids & the little ones did exit when they returned. The camera may not have caught it because the van door blocks the view. IMO

As someone else said, they could've picked O & O up from grandma's house at the same time they dropped the 4 older boys off?
 
MichelleBlue said:
Actually, after watching again, it also appears the children enter the van through the front passenger door when they are departing the house. Maybe they use that front passenger door for loading and unloading the kids & the little ones did exit when they returned. The camera may not have caught it because the van door blocks the view. IMO

As someone else said, they could've picked O & O up from grandma's house at the same time they dropped the 4 older boys off?
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BBM

I sure hope they were at grandma's instead of left alone when they were dropping the others but there has been no indication in MSM or otherwise that that's the case.

ETA: if (big if) the last time grandma saw them was that day, then we have something to go by
 
MsBetsy said:
Yes, of course. Sometimes LE does not want to alert a suspect that they are investigating them.

I know the timestamp is off by an hour but I was referring to real time. So when it starts around 4:20 it's really around 5:20. So we don't know if the video actually matches up to the parent's statements because it does not show the time period between 4:30 and the time it shows TW come outside.

ETA Also, even with the time difference it was still at least 45 minutes before TW called police, not right away, like he said in his interview. That might be why he did not answer the question when asked twice what time they called to report them missing.

Imo
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Yes, it's interesting that the important piece of the timeline - the video of the hour or so before - has not been released. IMO there's a smoking gun in that footage.

The other kids revealed that the 19th was the last time they saw Orrin and Orson. No other adult was in the house (neither parent nor LE has ever said anything about a babysitter or other caregiver being present that day) so the assumption is that the boys were left alone while the rest of the family went shopping.

Why? And in what condition? Cadaver dog didn't alert according to Chief Walker. And how does all this fit in with LE asking various people to take polygraphs?
 
MichelleBlue said:
Actually, after watching again, it also appears the children enter the van through the front passenger door when they are departing the house. Maybe they use that front passenger door for loading and unloading the kids & the little ones did exit when they returned. The camera may not have caught it because the van door blocks the view. IMO

As someone else said, they could've picked O & O up from grandma's house at the same time they dropped the 4 older boys off?
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I mean you really might be onto something because why is it taking so long at that passenger door?
 
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