Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[Knox]

Another thought about the DNA testing... I think California is one of the states that saves infant blood samples after birth. So it might be easy to test any DNA found in the house and compare it to the boys. I would think LE would have the results back by now. They should be able determine whether or not they were living there. Imo

They do? I thought that was only if Mom chose to pay for cord blood banking? Which not many do IMO.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

So LE released the video yesterday.....why? Why wait so long? When will they release more video? Are they trying to get someone to come forward (i.e. grandma) when they see that AP's version makes no sense with this video evidence? Helping someone put two and two together to do the right thing?

I’m sorry to say I don’t think Grandma is going to be the one to go against her own offspring. She also has much to lose if she in any way knows critical info but withheld it this long. I imagine CPS is looking into her fostering particulars too. The possibility exists that it might even be a family affair. Generational lifestyle. I do think there might be someone within this family involved circle. The reward should be and probably is on someone’s mind in this family. I know these additional stimulus checks also include $600+ for each dependent. There was a deadline in November for application to receive benefits if they weren’t included in their most recent check. Fostering children, with either right or wrong motives, does provide additional income. I don’t like to be so cynical; in some cases - it is warranted...

 

[MsBetsy]

They do? I thought that was only if Mom chose to pay for cord blood banking? Which not many do IMO.

Yes, every child born (I think after 1983) should have a blood sample in the states database. LE would have access to this information.

They usually prick the baby's foot to get a drop of blood. It's used to test for a variety of things, including genetic diseases. Hospitals used to throw them away after testing but some states keep them for a certain amount of time. Apparently CA keeps them in their database indefinitely.

Imo

 

[Knox]

Given that brothers Orrin & Orson were already in the foster care system prior to being adopted by the West couple, I would think the children's DNA is already on file with CPS and/or available to the state/federal investigators. Maybe, maybe not? MOO

ETA: add link

DNA of every baby born in California is stored. Who has access to it?

California, however, is one of a handful of states that stores the remaining blood spots for research indefinitely in a state-run biobank.

Even though the parents pay for the lifesaving test itself, the child's leftover blood spots become property of the state and may be sold to outside researchers without the parent's knowledge or consent.

"I just didn't realize there was a repository of every baby born in the state. It's like fingerprints," new mom Soniya Sapre responded.

Woah, I knew cord blood could be saved and banked but not a profile of every child born. Nor did I know there is a "State Run Biobank", how scary is it that they can sell for outside research?

 

[Rachelj1]

I’m sorry to say I don’t think Grandma is going to be the one to go against her own offspring. She also has much to lose if she in any way knows critical info but withheld it this long. I imagine CPS is looking into her fostering particulars too. The possibility exists that it might even be a family affair. Generational lifestyle. I do think there might be someone within this family involved circle. The reward should be and probably is on someone’s mind in this family. I know these additional stimulus checks also include $600+ for each dependent. There was a deadline in November for application to receive benefits if they weren’t included in their most recent check. Fostering children, with either right or wrong motives, does provide additional income. I don’t like to be so cynical; in some cases - it is warranted...

I agree with you, shes going to protect her.
MOO

 

[Bbybluz]

Just like in the Vallow/Daybell case - if the boys are alive somewhere and can be produced (no matter the consequences). Wouldn't the West's have done this by now?

The timeline in noticing them missing and calling 911, would have produced the boys within hours IMO. They aren't little ninja's capable of pulling a disappearing act.

Accidental death - this is hard for me to fathom for both of them at one time. So I'm left with one other possibility which explains the need for an elaborate cover-up.

A very good reason to NOT come forward would be to protect a relative MOO.

 

[Rachelj1]

A very good reason to NOT come forward would be to protect a relative MOO.

exactly right and this is why no one is claiming that reward.

MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

Woah, I knew cord blood could be saved and banked but not a profile of every child born. Nor did I know there is a "State Run Biobank", how scary is it that they can sell for outside research?

Yeah, It's something they don't tell you in the hospital when your baby is born. It can turn out to be very useful in missing children's cases, though.

 

[Mitch1]

This has a report of when the other 4 children last saw O and O
New Security Cam footage on the days before Orrin and Orson West went missing

 

[NCHydrangea]

Crack as in lose his cool? Did anyone notice his reaction to the Aunt calling him out, about leaving the gate open? He did not like at all. MOO Imagine him being under more intense pressure, questioning. MOO

I meant “crack” as in opening up. I sense a nervous energy that he was holding in and even though she was rocking, I felt that she was much more in control of herself. He fumbled over his words, then growled(?). She fumbled a little, but corrected herself and continued on.
I can’t really explain it, but I see confidence in her where I see insecurity in him. He was the one we saw “searching” outside, he was the one who stood in front of the podium telling us how it “all played out”, while she corrected his timeline. He is the one that been spotted, while she has disappeared (distancing?).

I could be totally off base, but I think he could break more easily.

I love hearing other’s thoughts and opinions because it opens my mind to other ideas. At the end of the day, I believe they both know more than they’ve said and I believe they are both culpable for the boy’s disappearance.

JMO
MOO
speculation only

 

[nyvictoria]

This is the biggest take away for me:

Security camera footage from two days before Orrin and Orson West went missing | KBAK (bakersfieldnow.com)
Jon Walker, Police Chief for the California City Department, says the boys' adoptive parents claim they left their California City house on Dec. 19 with their six children, to go do Christmas shopping in Bakersfield.

Security camera footage from a neighbor shows an adult holding the door open while four children go into the van. Then later that day two adults, which appear to be Trazell and Jacqueline West, come back to the house without any kids.

Chief Walker says the parents claim they dropped off four of their children, not including Orrin and Orson, at a family member's home that day. Walker says Dec. 19 was the last day the other four children say they saw Orrin and Orson.

[...]

I’m trying to catch up but now I can see why I had 6 new pages to get thru. This is huge!!

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Woah, I knew cord blood could be saved and banked but not a profile of every child born. Nor did I know there is a "State Run Biobank", how scary is it that they can sell for outside research?

Omg, the movie Salt popped in my head. That is scary. Now what? Really? I’m gonna have to read up on that as a side study of this case later on. Also, this statistical data is pinging in my head. Eventual charges must/shall come. Right? At some point, even if the case goes cold and the bodies aren’t found. I think some states could likely issue death certificates for the boys (in a state statute set number of months) even without a body, and that the AP could still be liable. I think it was/is that way in Kansas. I’m pretty sure I read that in Lucas Hernandez’s threads.

 

[Snoop Sister]

DNA of every baby born in California is stored. Who has access to it?

Even though the parents pay for the lifesaving test itself, the child's leftover blood spots become property of the state and may be sold to outside researchers without the parent's knowledge or consent.

Snipped by me

Pretty scary that the blood becomes state property and can be sold to researchers with out parental permission!! I have never heard of this before.

 

[Knox]

Snipped by me

Pretty scary that the blood becomes state property and can be sold to researchers with out parental permission!! I have never heard of this before.

Right?! I just asked my daughter if she remembered this - she said they were only told about the option to bank cord blood. Nothing about a request for Emma's bio-sample to be destroyed.

 

[Snoop Sister]

I meant “crack” as in opening up. I sense a nervous energy that he was holding in and even though she was rocking, I felt that she was much more in control of herself. He fumbled over his words, then growled(?). She fumbled a little, but corrected herself and continued on.
I can’t really explain it, but I see confidence in her where I see insecurity in him. He was the one we saw “searching” outside, he was the one who stood in front of the podium telling us how it “all played out”, while she corrected his timeline. He is the one that been spotted, while she has disappeared (distancing?).

I could be totally off base, but I think he could break more easily.

Snipped and bbm

I think she would be the one to break first. Although, she appears confident, I think that may be because he is doing all the talking and she is merely backup when deemed necessary.

 

[MadTing]

The timing of the other 4 kids going on holiday to stay with grandma is extremely suspicious, i would like to know how far in advanced the AP's arranged this with grandma.

 

[jenniemoralis]

Is there an Analyst or DNA specialist, in here?

I have been wondering since Chief Walker mentioned the “statistical data” in his last report (might be 2 reports ago) what this meant? So I have done some reading on it.

My question is... Is it possible to take let’s say “hair or skin flakes” off of clothing/bedding/furniture and determine a timeframe of when it fell off? From this same sample with DNA can you also determine what boy it belonged to as well?

If that was possible couldn’t LE determine if Orrin & Orson last wore those clothes or was in contact with the beds/furniture? A timeline between Bakersfield & Cal City.

Thank you in advance & all the above is my own curiosity.

Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Court Statistics Project (CSP)

Nice sharing thanks.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

An investigation into the boys' disappearance remains active, and the reward for information now totals $100,000.

Walker said police requested polygraph tests for "multiple people."

He said that police received multiple tips and leads on the case from the public, but all information is currently being vetted by the department to ensure that it is credible and worth pursuing.

"We haven't given up. We're still trying," he said.
Search continues for missing California toddlers who disappeared days before Christmas

 

[Dre]

The timing of the other 4 kids going on holiday to stay with grandma is extremely suspicious, i would like to know how far in advanced the AP's arranged this with grandma.

I have honestly pondered this so hard... coincidence or convenience?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Nice sharing thanks.

Welcome to WS.