UK UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #6

[4NSIC]

Can I ask a couple of questions.

@4NSIC your post was really excellent but also depressing when it came to the frequency and quality of the psychological testing for firearms officers. How easy would it be to ascertain the best answers and fake them? I'm guessing quite easy if he managed to get that job and remain in it.

Are they just forms to fill in or face to face with a psychologist? Sadly I'm guessing from your post that it's the former.

More generally - I was under the impression that all LE had to provide DNA samples to preclude them from crime scenes. Wouldn't these also flag up as matches when the database is searched with DNA taken from any seemingly unrelated crime scene?

If yes any previous public defency or sexual offences may not have been investigated for DNA, or been reported or he didn't leave any.

I'm confused by his wife's arrest. Would a spouse just lying about his whereabouts be an arrestable offence? Isn't there some protection / expectation that spouses might lie?

the self report assessments for PaDP and similar armed groups are easily passed

occupational health tends to insist on a face to face if you experience a death in the family, divorce, severe depression, or an “accidental discharge” of your weapon

lots of armed officers fail to disclose the first three

I have personal experience of one officer in what was then SO19 starting an extramarital affair with another, both marriages breaking down, resulting in one having a major depressive episode, and the other party engaging in crimes against the wronged spouse. Both officers failed to disclose any of their circumstances to seniors. Formal complaints from the spouse who was the victim of crime led to firearms permits being withdrawn, mandatory time off and occupational health involvement.

Sargeant & Inspector above them were dismayed. They try very hard to avoid such situations. But ultimately some individuals are simply not trustworthy.

arresting spouse is a clever tactic for a number of reasons I can’t explicitly describe.

apologies for poor punctuation + grammar was in a hurry writing this!

 

[jk1874]

There are still questions being asked over whether WC and SE knew each other. I know the source isn’t exactly the best (The Sun) but they are not believed to have met before.

SARAH Everard had never met the Met gun cop arrested on suspicion of her kidnap and murder and had no link to him, it was reported today.

Sarah Everard 'had no link & never met' Met cop arrested over kidnap & murder

No one would know this for sure except SE and WC.

 

[Aus94]

I wonder if the original CCTV from the bus led investigators to follow his car through traffic CCTV on the route home. If that is the case then there might even be camera evidence of her in his vehicle which I can only hope aids in providing justice.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Ive been thinking of Leah too. I wonder if the pressleuths can do a new story on Leahs disappearance? Two years her poor family gave been waiting for answers. Hopefully the police will check his whereabouts at the time she disappeared.

We have a thread here for Leah if anyone would like to read and comment:
UK - UK - Leah Croucher, 19, Emerson Valley, Milton Keynes, 14 Feb 2019 #4

 

[Audiohoney]

I wonder if we need to ring 101 to confirm it is a police officer first if we are approached? Particularly if you’re a female alone and at night.

Although to be honest my feeling is he attacked her without warning rather than luring her to his car. JMO

101 .. as 111 is the NHS. But if you’ve ever tried to get through on 101 it can be a long, long wait. I’ve been on hold for up to an hour before. I do think verifying identification is important. But if Sarah had tried to do so, would he have grabbed her regardless? If I were stopped in a vehicle at night I certainly would not be getting out until I’d verified the stop. I guess confronted on foot it’s harder.

 

[juniper6]

I wonder if the original CCTV from the bus led investigators to follow his car through traffic CCTV on the route home. If that is the case then there might even be camera evidence of her in his vehicle which I can only hope aids in providing justice.

Which could explain the initial kidnapping charge.

 

[Barbieshell]

There are plans afoot to ban the ‘50 Shades of Grey’ defence in the new Domestic Abuse Bill. See link below ( btw Legal Cheek is a very good site despite the cheesy name and, as a legal academic, I look at it for updates and have been to conferences organised by them (zoom)
'Rough sex' defence ban: A step in the right direction - Legal Cheek

Something should have been done in 2003 after Graham Coutts used that defence strategy when he murdered Jane Longhurst tbh.

 

[Commoner]

dont think i can believe that what are the chances that she would have got mugged and then this guy was randomly on the scene? Also, if she was mugged someone would have likely seen this.

Mugging for phones are very common, and she'd just been using hers, so it could be clear to see to a bicycle mugger, who could have then jumped up the kerb to snatch - it came to my mind - and this is just MOO - because police seemed to be examining the kerb and route through the estate whilst they had the A205 cordoned off.

But yes I agree I'm just speculating about coincidence. If the mugger came forward (when he realised he'd mugged Sarah and could tell the police what had happened to her phone - being a low life for street theft does not mean you want to be a murder suspect) or was detected by the police by some other means, then it does give a (totally hypothetical) reason why a shaken up person would cooperate with a warrant card holding apparent saviour

 

[JuicyLucy]

Just to clear up some misunderstanding about private ambulances, as people were speculating upthread about one that may or may not have been seen outside the house in Deal.

A private ambulance in the UK is a small, vented van used by undertakers to transport cadavers. They are usually black and labelled 'Private Ambulance' but are otherwise identical to coroners' vans, which are labelled as such. Similar sized/shaped vans just in general use usually lack the roof vents. Ambulances used to transport patients non-urgently to hospital are usually termed - and labelled - 'Patient Transport'. HTH.

 

[mrazda71]

Speculation on Facebook.

DBM

FB where please?

 

[Finders_Keepers]

These are very interesting.

Despite the photo fit looking all wrong (eyebrows too dark?) the micro-location of the Sevenoaks attack looks eerily similar to the Poynders Road/Rodenhurst Road corner - wide A road, resi area on outskirts of town. And the MO could explain this case - attempt to lure off a main road along side street for indecent act but not necessarily murder. So emboldened by that event he has escalated but that the murder was a panicked response to the attack not going the way he expected or she tried to take her phone out to capture him or call for help and he then overpowered her AND immediately switches off her phone.

Just a theory.

I think if it started off as a lesser crime like indecent exposure and she took evidence of it using her phone the escalation theory would be far more likely an anger response.

Being everything syncs to the cloud these days I can’t imagine taking the phone and her was to disguise evidence. IMO more likely that it could trigger a violent response knowing he has been caught

Although I don’t think either is a plausible theory as even by Friday morning her online accounts and her phone would be being extensively checked and the evidence would come to light almost immediately.

Only other possibility is if he thinks somthing has been captured and responds violently but t actually hasn’t...

 

[Vera_dci]

These are very interesting.

Despite the photo fit looking all wrong (eyebrows too dark?) the micro-location of the Sevenoaks attack looks eerily similar to the Poynders Road/Rodenhurst Road corner - wide A road, resi area on outskirts of town. And the MO could explain this case - attempt to lure off a main road along side street for indecent act but not necessarily murder. So emboldened by that event he has escalated but that the murder was a panicked response to the attack not going the way he expected or she tried to take her phone out to capture him or call for help and he then overpowered her AND immediately switches off her phone.

Just a theory.

You have to remember these photo fits are computer generated from a victims memory. They may not be an exact match as these women have suffered an horrendous ordeal. If it was dark it would be hard to distinguish hair and eye colour correctly.

 

[Nikynoo]

arresting spouse is a clever tactic for a number of reasons I can’t explicitly describe.

Snipped by me for focus. I agree. When you have time, can you please expand on this?

 

[alw]

Hi all,

Like many others I'm new here, after spending days reading these threads and hoping for the best possible outcome for SE. I'm so utterly heartbroken for her and her family

 

[Armchair_Defective]

Do you mean that to the best of the family's knowledge she didn't know him? Or do you mean that the police have told the family that she didn't know him?

There is no way the family could list everyone she knew with any degree of certainty. No chance.

The uncle said in the press she didn't know him. That's not my meaning but what he said.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Apologies for the source (The Sun) but it is MSM. Confirming that SE and WC were not know to one another and had never met before.

Sarah Everard 'had no link & never met' Met cop arrested over kidnap & murder

It now seems likely, everything considered, that SE didn’t know WC in any context, but the article here is rather less equivocal than the headline, stating that no connection has yet been found between the two of them when checking into the background. But then, it’s quite hard to prove a negative.

If I say that WC might have known SE, I don’t mean that anything was going on between them, I mean that perhaps (total hypothetically) they had met briefly for example and he remembered her — but not vice versa. It looks like that is not the the case, but I doubt at this stage it’s been possible to rule it out.

There is no way that SE’s family could possibly say who she did or didn’t know, and actually I haven’t seen any statements or purported quotes from them on that to be honest. SE isn’t a teenager living at home. Thinking about my own life in London and my family in the north of England, similar setup to SE — they simply would have no idea who even the majority of people I interacted with were.

 

[Evo25]

There are still questions being asked over whether WC and SE knew each other. I know the source isn’t exactly the best (The Sun) but they are not believed to have met before.

SARAH Everard had never met the Met gun cop arrested on suspicion of her kidnap and murder and had no link to him, it was reported today.

Sarah Everard 'had no link & never met' Met cop arrested over kidnap & murder

That headline is a bit misleading.

It hasn't been confirmed that they didn't know each other. Just that no link is established yet.

"so far there is no evidence"
"you cant be 100% certain at this stage"

 

[Lincoln34]

What really saddens me with this case (apart from the outcome obviously), is that SE was probably acting in good faith before she got in the car because he is a policeman. Authority is a powerful thing and to resist arrest is an offence. He probably told a story that was somewhat convincing at the time, in a moment of confusion, such as saying he would bring her to a local police station for questioning… But can you imagine that feeling, of driving further and further outside the built up areas, past several police stations, onto the motorway…at some point you realise you’ve been deceived. He stops being friendly, your phone has been confiscated, you’re handcuffed, he’s probably blaring music to cover the noise of your screams, the windows are probably tinted. You see only the odd person on the street anyway because everyone is indoors because of covid. Can you imagine how scary this must have been. This man is seriously dangerous. I feel so sorry for her to have to go through this, I wish I was at that corner at the time and somehow stopped it all.

If WC used his position of trust as a police officer in any way then that is an aggravating factor in terms of the minimum tariff ( the time in prison a convicted individual has to serve before being considered for parole. ) Damaging / hiding the body - also a potential aggravating factor.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/FINAL-Murder-sentencing-leaflet-for-web1.pdf

 

[JerricaBenton]

There are at least 3 reportable posts made in the last half hour regarding rumours on FB, these are going to get the thread shut down, please stop

 

[Parmalade]

Have just quickly caught up on this whole thread so have skimmed some of it. Therefore, apologies if what I’m about to post has already been considered, but just a couple of thoughts in relation to a hire car possibility and the separate arrest for indecent exposure:

1) Re “hire care” - rather than hiring a car in an attempt to make traceability back to him more difficult (because it’s probably not), is it possible he hired a car for its superior advantages/use in some way - ie could we be getting hung up on a possible clumsy use of “hire car” when it might have been a “hire vehicle”, like a 4x4 or van for instance that may make both detaining SE easier in the back and getting across rural land later easier.

2) Alternatively, could it indeed refer to a lease car - might he get some allowance to long term hire/lease a vehicle to use to commute from Deal to Westminster and he still has his own family car(s) because he’s not allowed to use this other car for personal use at weekends, etc. I know we’re in a pandemic, but personal use only might explain the low mileage on the Seat in the last year or so. This might then explain why he was in this vehicle if he was on his way home from work.

3) If it was a hire vehicle of some sort, then could the wife have driven him to/home from wherever he returned the hire car to and this is why she is suspected of assisting him. She may have been oblivious, but the police may need to arrest her to determine this.

4) Similarly to placing too much focus on “hire” and “car”, could the indecent exposure arrest relate to digital indecent exposure - ie harassing people (presumably women, given SE) online/SM with unsolicited pictures of himself and this was uncovered by police shortly after his arrest when checking his phone for evidence and/or the micro SD card they took from his house. This may explain the relative swiftness with adding that arrest feature and not needing doing so to have relied on another person coming forward so quickly (remember, the general public/other victims may not have known WC’s identity in this case as quickly as we did). Any VIs know if SM/messaging of private parts counts as indecent exposure if unsolicited? I’m aware a counter to my theory above is, without someone coming forward to accuse, LE cannot assume they were unsolicited but just a thought.

All MOO.