Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

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sunshineray said:
The video of Abby finishing her bridge crossing may have been just fortuitous in catching the killer on video but Libby either purposely kept that video going until he reached them or turn on audio capture via whatever app on, probably surreptitiously, to get his voice recorded...very laudable for a 14 year old being approached by an unknown adult male in an isolated area, IMO.
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Or: something / someone distracted her and she may have simply been unable to stop the recording, or she may have forgotten to. Interestingly, we're not shown any video with the audio of "guys", "down the hill". We don't know at what point this happened. It could have been right off the side of the bridge as portrayed in so many news stories / youtube videos, or it may have been some other place in their abduction. Why have police not shown the accompanying video for the audio they've released?
 
photographer4 said:
Or: something / someone distracted her and she may have simply been unable to stop the recording, or she may have forgotten to. Interestingly, we're not shown any video with the audio of "guys", "down the hill". We don't know at what point this happened. It could have been right off the side of the bridge as portrayed in so many news stories / youtube videos, or it may have been some other place in their abduction. Why have police not shown the accompanying video for the audio they've released?
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We do, actually. Someone in the Comet Q&A asked TL where this audio took place and he said "South end of the high bridge."
 
photographer4 said:
Ah thanks! So where does "guys" take place?
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There are only a few seconds between "guys" and "down the hill." This is according to AW, who heard this part of the audio in its entirety. She said BG says "guys," the girls respond with a "teenage thing, like 'huh'?" And then he says "down the hill." Her interview where she described this is linked in these threads, it's the one with Jason Hebert.

So, TL's answer that "guys...down the hill" was said at the south end of the bridge confirms the whole phrase was said in the same location.
 
Yemelyan said:
Some people think he saw them getting dropped off or their ride leaving them unattended.

Some things that point to this would be the fact that at some point after they found the cellphone, LE extended their definition of the crime scene to include the trailhead (information from KR in DTH Episode 2) and DC's musings in DTH that "he stood here, even on the first day" while DC was interviewed at the trailhead sign (though, I haven't listened to this episode in a long time so I would need to refresh my memory on his exact comments). It's my understanding that the current sign in that location is different than what was there at the time of the murders.
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Bolded by me for focus:
It sounds like they may have a photo of him right there at the trail head from Libby's phone that they just haven't released yet? I wonder if it is possible they have any other photos of him from others at the scene who may have just happened to catch him in a picture? You'd think that if they had a clearer photo, they'd release that, no? If they do, but have not released it, what would be the reason not to release it? Would it mean he might get a chance to declare an unfair trial if it went public and he was prosecuted in the court of public opinion?
 
Silver_produce0 said:
What is Indiana like in terms of hiking and walking trails? I am in eastern PA and we have a lot going on in that department. It wouldn’t be difficult for me to find a low traffic area with potential to take a person off the trail for heinous acts. My point is that he might not be local but living within a certain distance makes it a hell of a lot easier to plan something like this. Less time on the road is less potential to be seen, to need to stop for gas and be caught on camera, to blow out a tire or get in an accident. Less time to explain away for an alibi, if needed. It’s also easier to search for potential sites within an hour or two.

I think if he’s a true local local he would have been identified. But I would bet my life that he’s within an hour or two at most away.
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Indiana has many hiking and walking trails. The Monon railroad is defunct and all throughout the state sections of the former railway have been turned into hiking, walking, and bike trails. Many of these trails connect parks, playgrounds, or recreational areas.

It is very easy to find trails and hiking areas as maps are widely available. We have found some fairly isolated trails in hiking books. The books and maps show where to park, points of interest (bridges, etc) how to find trailheads, private property lines, and more.

We discovered an isolated trail not far from Delphi in a hiking book, there was no marker or any type of identification for the trail. The instructions included where to park (on a seldom-traveled country road) and directions to walk on the road to get to the trail. You had to climb over a barb wire fence that was on a narrow strip of public property to get there, and the neighboring properties were well described in order to prevent trespassing on them.

This is just one example, but yes, Indiana trails are well publicized.
 
Yemelyan said:
There are only a few seconds between "guys" and "down the hill." This is according to AW, who heard this part of the audio in its entirety. She said BG says "guys," the girls respond with a "teenage thing, like 'huh'?" And then he says "down the hill." Her interview where she described this is linked in these threads, it's the one with Jason Hebert.

So, TL's answer that "guys...down the hill" was said at the south end of the bridge confirms the whole phrase was said in the same location.
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Hm. So how did he make sure they knew he was serious in his order? If he didn't say anything else to them, and they complied, why did they? Did he flash a weapon? I've read a lot of chatter that he may have carried a gun in his jacket pocket that some people feel they can see the outline of in the pocket. But as far as we know, no gun shots were heard by witnesses. A gun would surely have scared the girls, but did it have to be a regular gun? Any chance it was a taser gun? That would probably be scary to the kids!
 
Fika said:
As I believe he is not from the area. My opinion only. There could be so many reasons someone goes anywhere.
Think about ourselves why do we go some places? Reasons are infinitive. Taking aside why he went there to kill its impossible to know but why he could be there could be because he has some sort of ties to the town by a friend or a friend of a friend. He might have worked close by in his life. Visited as a child for one reason or another. He could be interested in old bridges or have his killing fantasy including the bridge and he found one.
It could also be as simple as someone sometime ago mentioned it to him because they were there themselves. Or seen the bridge in the news, online news for some reason.
If he would live in states close by( sorry I really don't know map of United States well so not sure which states) he would probably hear about the bridge? Not sure of how famous it was outside if one specifically search for Delphi. Was it ever on news? Newspapers?
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We know that LE has not found any evidence of Libby and Abby being catfished but what if BG was supposed to meet someone else there that didn’t show up or wasn’t what he liked and he decided to stick around because he saw the girls getting out of the car unaccompanied by an adult. That would explain why he could be from somewhere else and not from Delphi. LE could be right about being one tip away from solving this case. Some young person could have been chatting with BG and may not want to tell an adult that they were supposed to meet someone at the trails because they would get into trouble or they feel guilty that this happened because of their communications.
 
photographer4 said:
Bolded by me for focus:
It sounds like they may have a photo of him right there at the trail head from Libby's phone that they just haven't released yet? I wonder if it is possible they have any other photos of him from others at the scene who may have just happened to catch him in a picture? You'd think that if they had a clearer photo, they'd release that, no? If they do, but have not released it, what would be the reason not to release it? Would it mean he might get a chance to declare an unfair trial if it went public and he was prosecuted in the court of public opinion?
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The Carroll County article may also address this, key word MAY, TL didn't really want to confirm:

Q. No matter how distant, do you have the man walking on the bridge, videoed by Libby, on any other video?

A. This is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond.

Q. Why have no other photos from Libby’s phone been released to the public?

A. This is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet

In my opinion, the reason there is no "video" from "guys...down the hill" is that it wasn't focused on him at that time, may have been pointing straight up or down because he was closer and she was trying to conceal it. JMO
 
Pyschsandi said:
We know that LE has not found any evidence of Libby and Abby being catfished but what if BG was supposed to meet someone else there that didn’t show up or wasn’t what he liked and he decided to stick around because he saw the girls getting out of the car unaccompanied by an adult. That would explain why he could be from somewhere else and not from Delphi. LE could be right about being one tip away from solving this case. Some young person could have been chatting with BG and may not want to tell an adult that they were supposed to meet someone at the trails because they would get into trouble or they feel guilty that this happened because of their communications.
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That could be another reason of why he was there. I think of why he could be there is almost infinite. Once he is caught I think the reason of why he was there is going to turn out pretty random. I think that's why its so hard for police to find him because there is no obvious ties.
 
photographer4 said:
Hm. So how did he make sure they knew he was serious in his order? If he didn't say anything else to them, and they complied, why did they? Did he flash a weapon? I've read a lot of chatter that he may have carried a gun in his jacket pocket that some people feel they can see the outline of in the pocket. But as far as we know, no gun shots were heard by witnesses. A gun would surely have scared the girls, but did it have to be a regular gun? Any chance it was a taser gun? That would probably be scary to the kids!
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LE have partially answered this:

Q. Do you know how the murderer was able to gain control of both girls at once?

A. It is believed by manipulation and intimidation factors.

Sheriff Leazenby continues to answer double homicide questions | Carroll County Comet

I doubt they want to say exactly what weapon he used to intimidate, if he did; this info would be used in interrogation and in screening tips IMO.
 
Yemelyan said:
The Carroll County article may also address this, key word MAY, TL didn't really want to confirm:

Q. No matter how distant, do you have the man walking on the bridge, videoed by Libby, on any other video?

A. This is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond.

Q. Why have no other photos from Libby’s phone been released to the public?

A. This is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet

In my opinion, the reason there is no "video" from "guys...down the hill" is that it wasn't focused on him at that time, may have been pointing straight up or down because he was closer and she was trying to conceal it. JMO
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Or, she could have tucked it in her pocket at the time to hide its existence from him? Hard to know. I wonder if police would answer this though? Why has no video accompanied the audio clip they've released??
 
Yemelyan said:
LE have partially answered this:

Q. Do you know how the murderer was able to gain control of both girls at once?

A. It is believed by manipulation and intimidation factors.

Sheriff Leazenby continues to answer double homicide questions | Carroll County Comet

I doubt they want to say exactly what weapon he used to intimidate, if he did; this info would be used in interrogation and in screening tips IMO.
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If he used a taser, would that be enough to kill them? I don't know a whole lot about these weapons, but if he used one, would that be something that wouldn't leave a ton of / any blood at the scene and would allow him to walk out of there without blood on his person?
 
photographer4 said:
If he used a taser, would that be enough to kill them? I don't know a whole lot about these weapons, but if he used one, would that be something that wouldn't leave a ton of / any blood at the scene and would allow him to walk out of there without blood on his person?
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My hunch all along has been that he didn't carry a weapon. Maybe a knife as a lot of men carry knives anyway. I don't think he came specifically armed, though. He didn't need to, imo.

jmo
 
Okay so I havent been on WS in a longggggg time and feel a little rusty and I am fairly new to this 3 year old case... and im literally just jumping in with a random question that no doubt has already been discussed. My question is that when I have listened to the recordings of " down the hill" it always sounds like " get down the hill" to me.
That is a bit more forceful.
Also, how many, if any, of the girls friends knew they were going to the bridge... Did LE ever discuss any of their guy friends ...how long after that snap went out and the guy appear? Was he already there?
 
photographer4 said:
Or, she could have tucked it in her pocket at the time to hide its existence from him? Hard to know. I wonder if police would answer this though? Why has no video accompanied the audio clip they've released??
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It could have already been hidden, yes. His voice doesn't sound very muffled though, but who knows.

If the video portion where he speaks the words "guys....down the hill" doesn't show him, but just a wildly swinging blur of images as she tries to hide the phone, then IMO there is zero point of LE releasing it. It would only be advantageous if it showed more of his person/face. If it doesn't show that, then it's a distraction to the public focusing on the man they want to identify. JMO
 
photographer4 said:
If he used a taser, would that be enough to kill them? I don't know a whole lot about these weapons, but if he used one, would that be something that wouldn't leave a ton of / any blood at the scene and would allow him to walk out of there without blood on his person?
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A taser can definitely kill a person, as we know, but I don't know that it's a reliable murder weapon in the sense that one individual can immediately drop dead after being tased once but another person can be tased six times, suffer a heart attack, and survive. So if you definitely wanted someone dead, I don't know that it would be the first choice. That's just my opinion though.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
I think that's exactly what they did, promote and exaggerate Libby's role in a pathetic attempt to unnerve Bridge Guy. Naturally law enforcement is going to do everything possible to deservedly paint the victims in the most favorable light possible. If we saw the full version I think it would be obvious as a video of Abby finishing her crossing of the bridge, but extended long enough to catch Bridge Guy entering a very small section of the screen in the final couple of seconds.

In terms of where he was from, I've always wondered what threshold was required in terms of a non-local deemed okay to know about that area. <modsnip>
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Libby took the video via selfie camera backwards over her shoulder, while BG was approaching, according to Alexis Mcadams/ABC7:

https://twitter.com/AlexisMcAdamsTV/status/887816655836938240?s=04

That is IMO the 'presence of mind' LE is attributing to her.

-Nin
 
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