FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #13

[Georgia8]

Great point thanks. Poor Jennifer, between the complexities of her workplace which I am beginning now to understand in terms of possible criminality a brilliant woman and worker like J. MIGHT have been uncovering and then the condo and then of course whatever happened to her - how unfair can life be? You have put this really well and made me realize for the first time just what it would FEEL like living there.

And aha this might be what was behind the minor fight with her boyfriend on the phone. She was tired of the long distance relationship apart from the obvious because she was frightened.

 

[Georgia8]

1. Sorry for not keeping notes I am stuck with my memory. Does anyone remember why (if I am correct) Jennifer's mother thought Jennifer had been taken to Palm Coast? I am assuming this idea involved her being trafficked from there? Not sure.

2. In the third frame of the POI video it is said that the suspect turns around to look back at the car . I assume they mean the face that APPEARS to be present on the right hand side of the frame? If so I am not sure that is what we are seeing. I think it is a mirage and taking back what I previously took back I do think there is something wrong with that frame. Has it been tampered with? On Greta one reporter says the POI's face is obscured in ALMOST every frame. Is that just an error by her or has the frame been obscured by the police for some reason and if so do the Kesse's now have it I wonder.

 

[Quill]

Just dropped in here to see if anyone was discussing the podcast from last year about this case. I listened to it a few weeks ago. If you have interest in this case and you have not, you should. Much is revealed there. There is no way you can make me believe that she is missing due to anxiety or mental illness. No way. She sense real danger,IMO, not some perception of it. That reality came to be and she was abducted. Her parents have won the legal right against the state of Florida to take over her case and much has been revealed in those police files that the Kesses now have in their possession. The name of the podcast is House of Broken Dreams - The Jennifer Kesse Story.

 

[Georgia8]

I listened to the podcast will listen again. What do you think was 'revealed'? The one thing I can think of is they seemed to cast more doubt on the phone evidence from the evening before I think? Did you get the impression the producers had a lot of contact with the Kesses and were given new info?

Also do you think her fear was of the construction workers or something else?

 

[flgrl017]

I listened to the podcast will listen again. What do you think was 'revealed'? The one thing I can think of is they seemed to cast more doubt on the phone evidence from the evening before I think? Did you get the impression the producers had a lot of contact with the Kesses and were given new info?

Also do you think her fear was of the construction workers or something else?

It doesn’t fit the morning abduction narrative.....

 

[DD Byrd]

I'm still focused on the car. There are myriad ways Jennifer could have left/ been abducted. WHY is the car returned, and why close to, but not actually to, where she was living. To buy time? If so, why? If you're ging to abduct someone in Florida, in his/her own car, there are plenty of canals, etc. to dispose of the car, or torch it. To RETURN it to the area of the crime factors in here. Even "wiping down" for prints is risky if you miss something, why bring the car back into the scenario at all...

 

[jenpil]

WHY is the car returned....why bring the car back into the scenario at all

Here is what I think, IMO:

Her car wasn't brought 'back' as such, because, her car didn't leave the crime scenario. Her car was found at HOTG apartment complex and that is the crime scenario too as this may be the place where she was forced into a van, or another car, or knocked out or killed.
It's just as much part of a crime scene, if not more, as her own apartment parking lot where she was abducted from initially.

There's only 1.1 miles in between the 2 locations and it takes just 4 minutes to drive.

 

[flgrl017]

So many questions surrounding that car being dropped off at that location and that particular time it makes my head spin.

He had to go somewhere. Did he live, work, or have a vehicle parked within walking distance? I think one or more of those is why he parked the car there. Some have theorized that he got on a bus or had someone pick him up, but I think it’s more likely he parked at Hotg because he could walk to wherever he was going.

The dog that tracked to park central mid town terrace interests me. If the perp walked there, it explains a lot regarding the car being left at hotg.

Why would he risk dropping it off in the middle of the day in a busy area? My guess is he felt he couldn’t wait until night, but why couldn’t he. Did he know they were looking for her already (car was dropped off ~ 45 min after work called her parents)? He doesn’t appear panicked though. Did he need to be somewhere? Dropping it off in the middle of the day was his best option for some reason.

Did he pick hotg because he thought someone may steal it? Did he know those cameras were there? Perhaps he wanted to get caught on camera to set up an alibi for someone (maybe that’s not even her abductor caught on camera). Was he very familiar with hotg? He did park in a spot and walked directly in front of those cameras.

I do think that since whoever dropped it off leaves on foot that she wasn’t kidnapped by a group of people like some have theorized.

 

[flgrl017]

The problem I have with her being forced into another vehicle at Mosaic is the logistics of the crime. If the perp forced her into his vehicle then what happens? You would think he would drive off with her. If he does that then when and how does Jennifer’s car get moved.

I also have a problem with the logistics of the forced into the apartment across the hall scenario. Then he would have to 1. Remove her body 2. Deal with the car. No one remembers the car being there that morning.

Then there is the fact that when they found her car no evidence was found.

 

[jenpil]

Then there is the fact that when they found her car no evidence was found.

But LE find no evidence in people's cars on so many occasions, it's almost normal.
In fact, in most of the threads on here, where there is an abandoned car there is more often that not 'no evidence'.

It's bewildering, but there we are.....

No evidence doesn't mean nothing happened there. Because something obviously did, like in all these other cases.

 

[flgrl017]

But LE find no evidence in people's cars on so many occasions, it's almost normal.
In fact, in most of the threads on here, where there is an abandoned car there is more often that not 'no evidence'.

It's bewildering, but there we are.....

No evidence doesn't mean nothing happened there. Because something obviously did, like in all these other cases.

I think that if something violent happened in it there would have been evidence left or evidence of cleaning materials. They made it seem like it was only wiped for prints not cleaned. Her dad has made comments on the guestbook about not knowing if she was ever in the car after being kidnapped due to it being so clean. Anything is possible, but one would expect to find something if a violent attack occurred in that vehicle. Plus you have the fact that the police released the vehicle so soon. I don’t think they would have done that if they thought a crime occurred in there. I honestly don’t think anything violent happened to her in that car due to lack of evidence. I think that if Jennifer was in that car at the same time as her abductor she either knew him or he had a weapon so he could control her.

 

[Georgia8]

1. Concerning the back seat of the car: why wipe down the back seat of the car and presumably the DVD player unless someone other than Jennifer had been back there or for any reason touched that part of the car? Also why did ever careful Jen have that DVD in the car it is a great way to get your car windows broken.

2. figr 1017 mentions that the car is left at HOG 45 minutes after works calls Jen's parents. If there is a causal connection there it would mean that somebody knew there was an alert within say 15 to 30 minutes of the call to the parents as it would take some time to drive the car from where it had been. That is a limited number of people. I don't think her brother gets word until he gets to his car after the gym and listens to missed messages from his parents. There is not a lot of time for any grapevine of info to get passed.

 

[Dnp2be]

I don’t know all the facts of this case but I have followed it for some years. Personally I believe he parked the car as soon as he could for any of the following reasons:
1. He had some place he needed to be such as work, an appointment or even home with wife or kids.
2. He knew people were going to start giving her absence at work attention. Can’t remember if they found her cell but maybe he saw her work calling as I’m sure they tried more than once before calling her dad. He may have even known her schedule and known she was supposed to be at work assuming this wasn’t a random crime of opportunity.
3. He had to be somewhere and the location was near enough to get where he needed to be but far enough away as to not be seen. If he worked where she lived, any other employees may have seen him.

I also don’t think he knew about the camera. However if he did know about it, he may have figured he wouldn’t be caught do to any number of reasons (hat covering face, wiping away evidence, maybe thought he was out of view, no legal paperwork, not in the criminal database, etc)

All IMO and just what my gut tells me

 

[flgrl017]

1. Concerning the back seat of the car: why wipe down the back seat of the car and presumably the DVD player unless someone other than Jennifer had been back there or for any reason touched that part of the car? Also why did ever careful Jen have that DVD in the car it is a great way to get your car windows broken.

2. figr 1017 mentions that the car is left at HOG 45 minutes after works calls Jen's parents. If there is a causal connection there it would mean that somebody knew there was an alert within say 15 to 30 minutes of the call to the parents as it would take some time to drive the car from where it had been. That is a limited number of people. I don't think her brother gets word until he gets to his car after the gym and listens to missed messages from his parents. There is not a lot of time for any grapevine of info to get passed.

Rob had given her the DVD player. I believe he said he’s the one that strapped it in. I guess to keep it from moving around. You’re right about leaving things of value in the car. It’s a good way to get your window broken. You would think she would know better, but she had her hands full with her luggage and needed to look for the cell phone.

People at work would have known. Also people at the apartment complex. Some have theorized that the apartment could have used walkie talkies to communicate. I don’t know about that, but it’s a plausible theory. Also anyone her parents contacted. I’m not sure when they got in touch with Logan. I don’t have that in my notes. He did leave the Tampa area before them. I think this is because Her dad had to go pick her mother up from work before he headed to Orlando.

Also IF them looking for Jennifer triggered the car drop off, you’re right....He wouldn’t have had much time to gather his thoughts and compose himself , wipe it, and drive it to hotg. This dude appears to be focused/on a mission. Plus he was able to rid the car of dna/finger prints. Also if the call triggered his dropping off the car, he would have had to be at a point in the crime where he could drop what he was doing and deal with the car. Maybe all that points to it just being coincidence the car was dropped off then? Idk, sorry for rambling.

 

[Quill]

I listened to the podcast will listen again. What do you think was 'revealed'? The one thing I can think of is they seemed to cast more doubt on the phone evidence from the evening before I think? Did you get the impression the producers had a lot of contact with the Kesses and were given new info?

Also do you think her fear was of the construction workers or something else?

Among other things, the hand prints on the hood of her car that could indicate a struggle, and other signs on the inside of the car of someone other that JK being in the driver's seat. There is a lot revealed in that podcast, IMO. I do think they had a lot of contact with the Kesses and they were given new info from the police files that the Kesses now have access to.

 

[flgrl017]

Among other things, the hand prints on the hood of her car that could indicate a struggle, and other signs on the inside of the car of someone other that JK being in the driver's seat. There is a lot revealed in that podcast, IMO. I do think they had a lot of contact with the Kesses and they were given new info from the police files that the Kesses now have access to.

I feel like I’m in the minority, but I don’t see hand prints on the car. To me those lines seem too squiggly to be hands. They go in all different directions. Also where is the palm of the hand? I do see why people think that, and I did too at first.

 

[Georgia8]

I listened through the Fox podcast again. It is interesting that J's university friend thinks adamantly the poi is NOT the perpetrator but rather on as a recent poster said a mission/job. As for Morgan as she calls herself: it is tough to understand why police were not called on that voyeur. He would at the very least be trespassed. I don't know what to make of the dead dogs. It is a bit tough to believe that these are connected with Jen as her kidnapping was of such efficiency. Exhibitionism/voyeurism are very common crimes only recently are they even being taken very seriously.

Am still thinking that it is important that J's anxiety preceded moving into the millenium. That has me thinking again of her premonition/fear of being abducted. If not a pure premonition could there by someone in J's past WAY before who was obsessed with her? Perhaps someone not very socially able, in their own world, always liked Jen, kept tabs on her. It could be someone she knew a bit or a real outsider. Believes they have a connection. Grade school/high school. Though again, the apparent efficiency of the crime works against that idea.

Does anyone know what Jen's route to work would involve? Much traffic? I haven't heard many theories about something happening on the way to work two old tricks of course are slowly letting air out of tires (I don't drive is that possible I mean to get her far enough out of town?) and of course the phony cop trick. Because the odd thing is of course she appears to have everything she needs for the day yet an abduction at the Millenium though possible is hard to believe for some of the reasons recently given.

I agree I don't see the crime scene on the car that others see.


Query: where did Jen go to high school and grade school?

 

[jenpil]

I listened through the Fox podcast again. It is interesting that J's university friend thinks adamantly the poi is NOT the perpetrator but rather on as a recent poster said a mission/job. As for Morgan as she calls herself: it is tough to understand why police were not called on that voyeur. He would at the very least be trespassed. I don't know what to make of the dead dogs. It is a bit tough to believe that these are connected with Jen as her kidnapping was of such efficiency. Exhibitionism/voyeurism are very common crimes only recently are they even being taken very seriously.

Am still thinking that it is important that J's anxiety preceded moving into the millenium. That has me thinking again of her premonition/fear of being abducted. If not a pure premonition could there by someone in J's past WAY before who was obsessed with her? Perhaps someone not very socially able, in their own world, always liked Jen, kept tabs on her. It could be someone she knew a bit or a real outsider. Believes they have a connection. Grade school/high school. Though again, the apparent efficiency of the crime works against that idea.

Does anyone know what Jen's route to work would involve? Much traffic? I haven't heard many theories about something happening on the way to work two old tricks of course are slowly letting air out of tires (I don't drive is that possible I mean to get her far enough out of town?) and of course the phony cop trick. Because the odd thing is of course she appears to have everything she needs for the day yet an abduction at the Millenium though possible is hard to believe for some of the reasons recently given.

I agree I don't see the crime scene on the car that others see.


Query: where did Jen go to high school and grade school?

Good thinking, good questions. Like it all.

If her anxieties about safety and security did preceed her moving to Millennium Apartments, then I just wish she'd had the foresight to move somewhere that has a 24hr front security desk or a building superintendent....or somewhere that has neighbours and a community and that isn't half-empty day and night! I couldn't have been comfortable living there myself.

Yes, the perp may have been someone back from her university days. She sure had a run of bad luck with knowing weirdos causing her stress.....there was definitely one at work (it may have even been two? my memory has gone at the mo).

Oh Jen. You deserved better in life....and in death. May we find who killed you.

 

[Quill]

I listened to the podcast will listen again. What do you think was 'revealed'? The one thing I can think of is they seemed to cast more doubt on the phone evidence from the evening before I think? Did you get the impression the producers had a lot of contact with the Kesses and were given new info?

Also do you think her fear was of the construction workers or something else?

Among other things, the hand prints on the hood of her car that could indicate a struggle, and other signs on the inside of the car of someone other that JK being in the driver's seat. There is a lot revealed in that podcast, IMO. I do think they had a lot of contact with the Kesses and they were given new info from the police files that the Kesses now have access to.

I feel like I’m in the minority, but I don’t see hand prints on the car. To me those lines seem too squiggly to be hands. They go in all different directions. Also where is the palm of the hand? I do see why people think that, and I did too at first.

I think that the PI and the family see the handprints so I defer to them that know more than I.

 

[flgrl017]

Among other things, the hand prints on the hood of her car that could indicate a struggle, and other signs on the inside of the car of someone other that JK being in the driver's seat. There is a lot revealed in that podcast, IMO. I do think they had a lot of contact with the Kesses and they were given new info from the police files that the Kesses now have access to.


I think that the PI and the family see the handprints so I defer to them that know more than I.

Did they ever confirm it though? Surely they could if it was indeed prints. Until they come out and confirm it’s hand/fingers then I don’t see it the more I look at the photo. They have speculated she was slammed onto the hood. I don’t see a head, arms, or palms. Plus the marks that some assume are fingers don’t seem uniform enough to be fingers.