Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #136

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On the serial killer aspect. I'm currently listening to a VI on Colonial Parkway Murders case, Bill Thomas, and the podcast he co-hosts. In the 04 March 2021 episode on a Q&A on those murders he addresses a question on why serial killers supposedly stop. (About 15 minutes into the episode.) He shares what he has learned from LE and profilers. It seems there is shift in the LE, particularly the FBI, away from a SK having a particular type of victim or environment they stalk their victims in. They tend to believe now it is more focused on opportunity. IOW, a SK that might prefer 20 something or 30 something year old females might not walk away from an opportunity with a younger or older victim if it presents itself.

BONUS Colonial Parkway Murders Evidence Listener Questions Answered (Part 2) by Mind Over Murder • A podcast on Anchor

How might affect how I look at this case? IF - and that is a big IF - this is a SK, could his previous victims be women in their residences or runaway/homeless women in the past but coming across two younger victims in a place he found he had an opportunity, might he attack? If the focus is on double child murders like Evansdale or even single murders/abductions of 13-15 yo girls could this be unduly restricting ourselves? By a different set of circumstances, could his so-called 'signatures' be unique to this crime scene and not at his other crime scenes?

Of course, there is a strong possibility this killer hasn't killed before or since. Then again, just because there isn't what is commonly thought of a pattern, doesn't mean there isn't a SK involved. I've got to believe that LE here has searched other cases. But with some errors or omissions in Uniform Crime Reporting, ViCAP system and untested rape kits, his trail might be there. It's just not obvious or available.

Just thinking out loud. Your opinion might vary.
Yes, all of this is very possible, and certainly makes the job of LE that much harder. How difficult to try and pin down who BG is —SK or not — when the data has proven that patterns and signatures may not hold, opportunity may make a killer stray far from his preferred type/age/race, etc.
 
On the serial killer aspect. I'm currently listening to a VI on Colonial Parkway Murders case, Bill Thomas, and the podcast he co-hosts. In the 04 March 2021 episode on a Q&A on those murders he addresses a question on why serial killers supposedly stop. (About 15 minutes into the episode.) He shares what he has learned from LE and profilers. It seems there is shift in the LE, particularly the FBI, away from a SK having a particular type of victim or environment they stalk their victims in. They tend to believe now it is more focused on opportunity. IOW, a SK that might prefer 20 something or 30 something year old females might not walk away from an opportunity with a younger or older victim if it presents itself.

BONUS Colonial Parkway Murders Evidence Listener Questions Answered (Part 2) by Mind Over Murder • A podcast on Anchor

How might affect how I look at this case? IF - and that is a big IF - this is a SK, could his previous victims be women in their residences or runaway/homeless women in the past but coming across two younger victims in a place he found he had an opportunity, might he attack? If the focus is on double child murders like Evansdale or even single murders/abductions of 13-15 yo girls could this be unduly restricting ourselves? By a different set of circumstances, could his so-called 'signatures' be unique to this crime scene and not at his other crime scenes?

Of course, there is a strong possibility this killer hasn't killed before or since. Then again, just because there isn't what is commonly thought of a pattern, doesn't mean there isn't a SK involved. I've got to believe that LE here has searched other cases. But with some errors or omissions in Uniform Crime Reporting, ViCAP system and untested rape kits, his trail might be there. It's just not obvious or available.

Just thinking out loud. Your opinion might vary.
I agree completely that serial killers don’t always commit their crimes according to the FBI handbook of only killing children or sticking to the same old routines. One crime they may use a gun and switch to a knife next time. One item in the FBI profile that bothers me in the Delphi case is that they think this ruthless killer is acting differently or is nervous. My opinion only is that if a person can do what this man did to 2 beautiful girls, he is not going to be nervous or have a conscience.
 
I agree completely that serial killers don’t always commit their crimes according to the FBI handbook of only killing children or sticking to the same old routines. One crime they may use a gun and switch to a knife next time. One item in the FBI profile that bothers me in the Delphi case is that they think this ruthless killer is acting differently or is nervous. My opinion only is that if a person can do what this man did to 2 beautiful girls, he is not going to be nervous or have a conscience.

That's assuming he's a psychopathic sort.

If s/he committed the murders for more mundane reasons, like for example jealousy over a boyfriend, revenge for a perceived wrong, anger over being rejected, fear that they might go to authorities for something the killer did, like revealing child abuse, they might well be displaying both remorse and fear.
 
I was just listening to Scene of the Crime again and one of the episodes the host mentioned that the sketch of the older BG is to be totally disregarded and only the younger one should be looked at. Is that correct? Its confusing to me because honestly that older man sketch looks like the guy in the video (IMO) although i realize maybe this was some sort of disguise. I just wanted to make sure I understood what the host was saying correctly.
 
I was just listening to Scene of the Crime again and one of the episodes the host mentioned that the sketch of the older BG is to be totally disregarded and only the younger one should be looked at. Is that correct? Its confusing to me because honestly that older man sketch looks like the guy in the video (IMO) although i realize maybe this was some sort of disguise. I just wanted to make sure I understood what the host was saying correctly.
That’s the million dollar question, and the answer is really convoluted.

Indiana State Police clarify reasons for 2nd sketch in Delphi murders case - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic

Superintendent Doug Carter said a new sketch was produced thanks to “new information and intelligence” collected during the investigation.

They said the person in the first sketch is no longer a person of interest in the case.

Police also made these points about the two sketches:

They are not the same person.

The [second] sketch released Monday is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cellphone as he was walking on the high bridge a place where the girls were hiking.

The person in the sketch is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late 30s.

https://www.abc7chicago.com/delphi-murders-update-2019-murder-video/5263900

"During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary as of today, the result of the new information and intelligence over time," said Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/the-delphi-murders-four-years-later-and-still-no-arrests

The sketches were composed from witness accounts of two separate individuals who were in the area on the day of the murders. Indiana State Police later revealed that the second sketch, released more than two years after the girls were killed, was actually the first sketch they had drawn up.

They also say they now believe that the second sketch is a more accurate depiction of the suspect, although the actual suspect may likely be a mix between both sketches.

"The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand," Carter said. "I believe that the individual, when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

ETA: edits for clarity
 
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That’s the million dollar question, and the answer is really convoluted.

Indiana State Police clarify reasons for 2nd sketch in Delphi murders case - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic

Superintendent Doug Carter said a new sketch was produced thanks to “new information and intelligence” collected during the investigation.

They said the person in the first sketch is no longer a person of interest in the case.

Police also made these points about the two sketches:

They are not the same person.

The [second] sketch released Monday is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cellphone as he was walking on the high bridge a place where the girls were hiking.

The person in the sketch is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late 30s.

https://www.abc7chicago.com/delphi-murders-update-2019-murder-video/5263900

"During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary as of today, the result of the new information and intelligence over time," said Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/the-delphi-murders-four-years-later-and-still-no-arrests

The sketches were composed from witness accounts of two separate individuals who were in the area on the day of the murders. Indiana State Police later revealed that the second sketch, released more than two years after the girls were killed, was actually the first sketch they had drawn up.

They also say they now believe that the second sketch is a more accurate depiction of the suspect, although the actual suspect may likely be a mix between both sketches.

"The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand," Carter said. "I believe that the individual, when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

ETA: edits for clarity
I really appreciate your posting. Especially some of it in bold.
I remembered reading all of this some time ago, but my foggy menopausal brain could not for the life of me remember when & by whom. And of course I didn’t think about searching until this very moment (inserting an eye roll).
Anyway, thank you so much for the post!

(Moo)
 
That’s the million dollar question, and the answer is really convoluted.

Indiana State Police clarify reasons for 2nd sketch in Delphi murders case - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic

Superintendent Doug Carter said a new sketch was produced thanks to “new information and intelligence” collected during the investigation.

They said the person in the first sketch is no longer a person of interest in the case.

Police also made these points about the two sketches:

They are not the same person.

The [second] sketch released Monday is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cellphone as he was walking on the high bridge a place where the girls were hiking.

The person in the sketch is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late 30s.

https://www.abc7chicago.com/delphi-murders-update-2019-murder-video/5263900

"During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary as of today, the result of the new information and intelligence over time," said Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/the-delphi-murders-four-years-later-and-still-no-arrests

The sketches were composed from witness accounts of two separate individuals who were in the area on the day of the murders. Indiana State Police later revealed that the second sketch, released more than two years after the girls were killed, was actually the first sketch they had drawn up.

They also say they now believe that the second sketch is a more accurate depiction of the suspect, although the actual suspect may likely be a mix between both sketches.

"The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand," Carter said. "I believe that the individual, when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

ETA: edits for clarity
I'm so glad you answered this. I've been pondering an answer to this and couldn't come up with an easy to understand statement. This covers the confusion involved with the sketches so much than I could have come up with.
 
That’s the million dollar question, and the answer is really convoluted.

<snip>

They are not the same person.

<snip>

They also say they now believe that the second sketch is a more accurate depiction of the suspect, although the actual suspect may likely be a mix between both sketches.

"The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand," Carter said. "I believe that the individual, when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

ETA: edits for clarity

Color me still confused. If two people are depicted in the two sketches, why oh why does Carter believe the suspect, when caught, will be a combination of the two?
 
Color me still confused. If two people are depicted in the two sketches, why oh why does Carter believe the suspect, when caught, will be a combination of the two?

Maybe two separate witness descriptions (the potential witnesses could have even been together) when they think they possibly saw or encountered the potential suspect...
 
Color me still confused. If two people are depicted in the two sketches, why oh why does Carter believe the suspect, when caught, will be a combination of the two?

This is a rather easy question to answer. Police have no idea what the person(s) who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German looks like. Because of this they want to keep the description as broad as possible for any possible tips. I also think they want to keep the description as broad as possible so that if this person is caught, people do not come to them with lots of questions about this sketch or that sketch.

It is kind of like when you say that a person lives or lived, works or worked, visits or visited a certain area. By phrasing it like that most likely you will be right because that is usually how most of us know a certain place.

Police thought that either the first or the second sketch might produce the tip they were looking for. It has not worked yet, but maybe in the future.

In my opinion, I do not think this person was seen or remembered well enough to produce a good sketch that accurately depicts their description. Because of this, I think the police are chasing an unknown and hoping that somewhere, someday, someone will either see Liberty German's video and know who that person is on the bridge or they get lucky and one of the sketches is accurate and leads to a good tip.

But I really think if this case gets solved it will be because of the phone video and not the sketches. And future investigations will look at this case as a case study for why, even in highly popular cases, you have to be careful about what information you release to the public. Sometimes we focus on information that leads us astray. It can happen to anyone.
 
Relatives? Speculation and MOO

MOO- This is the only answer I can come up with as well. They cant be 2 different people yet look like a combo unless related.

Such a perplexing case. I hope one day when this is solved and everything comes out, we all go OMG now all of these comments made by LE make sense and the pieces to the puzzles all fit together.
 
That’s the million dollar question, and the answer is really convoluted.

Indiana State Police clarify reasons for 2nd sketch in Delphi murders case - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic

Superintendent Doug Carter said a new sketch was produced thanks to “new information and intelligence” collected during the investigation.

They said the person in the first sketch is no longer a person of interest in the case.

Police also made these points about the two sketches:

They are not the same person.

The [second] sketch released Monday is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cellphone as he was walking on the high bridge a place where the girls were hiking.

The person in the sketch is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late 30s.

https://www.abc7chicago.com/delphi-murders-update-2019-murder-video/5263900

"During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary as of today, the result of the new information and intelligence over time," said Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/the-delphi-murders-four-years-later-and-still-no-arrests

The sketches were composed from witness accounts of two separate individuals who were in the area on the day of the murders. Indiana State Police later revealed that the second sketch, released more than two years after the girls were killed, was actually the first sketch they had drawn up.

They also say they now believe that the second sketch is a more accurate depiction of the suspect, although the actual suspect may likely be a mix between both sketches.

"The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand," Carter said. "I believe that the individual, when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

ETA: edits for clarity

Thank you so much for this thorough rundown with bolded sections. Much appreciated :)
 
So if the sketches are 2 different people and LE believes there was only 1 person involved in the murders then the first older man sketch, despite the fact that he looks like the guy in the video, was not someone involved in the murder? Forgive me if im repeating anything either obvious or ridiculous- im dealing w/a health issue and the meds i just started taking is making my brain super foggy lol.
 
I'm thinking whoever this person is in the first sketch many have shaved at the crime scene to change his appearance. Also sketches are subjective. mOO

If we are to believe that both sketches are two different people then this becomes more likely to me. You almost have to flowchart your assumptions to get there because IMHO you have to ignore some of what LE says to put together a coherent picture. But I believe this younger looking suspect was seen in the proximity of the trail and he was changing/shaving after the crime. I think this is something one might do if they were homeless, so it could be something you notice/remember in while not being alarmed at the time. In hindsight, it would raise much bigger flags. This is the "doing something that needed to be reported" (paraphrasing). I just question where the sighting was. The most obvious and least exposed way is the cemetery. I am convinced he was in a vehicle.

I just think they have no clue.
 
This is what we know about the two sketches (see post #449):

BG Sketch #1 is not the same person as BG Sketch #2.
BG Sketch #1 is no longer a person of interest.
BG Sketch #1 was composed from Witness Account #1.

BG Sketch #2 is representative of the face of the person captured in the video.
BG Sketch #2 is a more accurate depiction of the suspect.
BG Sketch #2 was composed from Witness Account #2.

For what it's worth, it appears the FBI has completely disregarded the first sketch.
Just some more food for thought.

UNKNOWN SUSPECT | Federal Bureau of Investigation

The suspect description provided by the FBI:
White
Male
Approximately 18 to 40 years of age but may appear younger
Reddish-brown hair
5'6" to 5'10"
180 - 200 pounds

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/unknown-suspect-2/@@download.pdf

The clothing description listed on the FBI Seeking Information poster:
Blue jeans
Blue coat/jacket
Hoodie
 
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