Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #60

[LinasK]

I was absolutely convinced Alex’ death was going to be ruled a homicide, and I was stunned when the autopsy report came back the way it did.

They would have gone in assuming it was probably murder, and ran countless tests for various poisons. They apparently struck out, and I have no reason to believe they got it wrong.

It’s super weird though.

I've watched true crime shows where the killer used a substance that naturally occurs in the body to make it harder to detect, like insulin or potassium.

 

[MassGuy]

I've watched true crime shows where the killer used a substance that naturally occurs in the body to make it harder to detect, like insulin or potassium.

Yup, but I just don’t see the medical examiner’s office not exploring that angle, as everyone believed he was poisoned with something.

So no poison found, and a clear cause of death staring them in the face with his heart and blood pressure issues.

Do we even know of any evidence that puts Chad or Lori in the area around that time?

 

[Rush4087]

long ramble, and all jmo

Not only is CPD and MC late to the party (and what about Gilbert and BB?), but one is left wondering whether the charges being brought against LV aren’t just a form of political grandstanding; a kind of prosecutorial “me too” that’ll never come to trial. I sure hope not.

But I wonder what evidence CPD has now - that they didn’t have 12-18 months ago? It’s been almost two (2) years since AC made that 911 call after shooting CV five times with a .45 caliber semi automatic.

I think the ambiguity and looseness in the AZ indictment language offers a hint as to the strength of their evidence : “Lori N Vallow, with the intent to promote or aid the commission of an offense, to wit: First Degree Murder, agreed with Alexander Cox that at least one of them or another (sic, I think they meant “or the other”) would engage in conduct constituting the offense of First Degree Murder.” I’m pretty sure that’s a conspiracy… isn’t it?

And once again, CPD and MC served up excuses while at the same time patting themselves on the back - I guess first, for getting it completely wrong, then for re-opening the case only after it was obvious that this was serious - that CV coulda been right all along, that the kids were missing in Idaho, that the FBI was involved, that there was all this great investigative reporting going on in two different states - then taking another year and a half to eventually get it right (we hope), by saying:

“Complex, difficult cases of this nature take time to investigate and solve.” No, many murders are as simple as “AC shot CV in cold blood, not self defense, just look at the evidence and read the statements”. AC went and retrieved a .45 acp from his bag in the bedroom (I guess while CV waited?) and then came back to find CV (who may or may not have been anywhere near Tylee’s aluminum girl’s softball bat at the time). But the bat is really of no importance. AC had a .45. All he had to do is point the gun at CV and tell him to leave.

And the immediate aftermath of the shooting was pure keystone (IMO). Something like: “let’s go down to the station for statements, anybody want to stop for burgers on the way?” It seems that everybody BUT CPD knew CV had been murdered. AC sat on the curb and confessed to shooting CV while also trying to find a tiny bump on his head with one finger. I can’t stop thinking of that officer cam video of LV standing by the car, laughing, flirting, tossing her hair… So I’m not exactly filled with confidence that CPD and MC can bring these charges to the finish line.

I’m glad for Larry and Kay though. And the AZ charges certainly provide a good backstop for the charges in Idaho. So, in the big picture, I’ve got no complaints. But it’s hard for me not to feel that the AZ charges are too little, too late. CV deserved more. Tylee and JJ deserved more. Larry and Kay deserved more. And Tammy Daybell deserved more.

I guess I’m just bitter. All jmo

 

[Kemug]

Well he is the blue eyed baby after all...wonder if the judge will recognize him as such.

Re MM having time to study more law - might give him time to qualify as a psychiatrist!

 

[indicolite22]

long ramble, and all jmo

Not only is CPD and MC late to the party (and what about Gilbert and BB?), but one is left wondering whether the charges being brought against LV aren’t just a form of political grandstanding; a kind of prosecutorial “me too” that’ll never come to trial. I sure hope not.

But I wonder what evidence CPD has now - that they didn’t have 12-18 months ago? It’s been almost two (2) years since AC made that 911 call after shooting CV five times with a .45 caliber semi automatic.

I think the ambiguity and looseness in the AZ indictment language offers a hint as to the strength of their evidence : “Lori N Vallow, with the intent to promote or aid the commission of an offense, to wit: First Degree Murder, agreed with Alexander Cox that at least one of them or another (sic, I think they meant “or the other”) would engage in conduct constituting the offense of First Degree Murder.” I’m pretty sure that’s a conspiracy… isn’t it?

And once again, CPD and MC served up excuses while at the same time patting themselves on the back - I guess first, for getting it completely wrong, then for re-opening the case only after it was obvious that this was serious - that CV coulda been right all along, that the kids were missing in Idaho, that the FBI was involved, that there was all this great investigative reporting going on in two different states - then taking another year and a half to eventually get it right (we hope), by saying:

“Complex, difficult cases of this nature take time to investigate and solve.” No, many murders are as simple as “AC shot CV in cold blood, not self defense, just look at the evidence and read the statements”. AC went and retrieved a .45 acp from his bag in the bedroom (I guess while CV waited?) and then came back to find CV (who may or may not have been anywhere near Tylee’s aluminum girl’s softball bat at the time). But the bat is really of no importance. AC had a .45. All he had to do is point the gun at CV and tell him to leave.

And the immediate aftermath of the shooting was pure keystone (IMO). Something like: “let’s go down to the station for statements, anybody want to stop for burgers on the way?” It seems that everybody BUT CPD knew CV had been murdered. AC sat on the curb and confessed to shooting CV while also trying to find a tiny bump on his head with one finger. I can’t stop thinking of that officer cam video of LV standing by the car, laughing, flirting, tossing her hair… So I’m not exactly filled with confidence that CPD and MC can bring these charges to the finish line.

I’m glad for Larry and Kay though. And the AZ charges certainly provide a good backstop for the charges in Idaho. So, in the big picture, I’ve got no complaints. But it’s hard for me not to feel that the AZ charges are too little, too late. CV deserved more. Tylee and JJ deserved more. Larry and Kay deserved more. And Tammy Daybell deserved more.

I guess I’m just bitter. All jmo

Despite a ton of suspicious circumstances, I don't think there was enough for murder charges to stick without additional evidence. There must be solid indication that Charles' murder was planned in advance. (IMO)

 

[Tortoise]

Maybe celebrate is not the right word. Relieved. After nearly 2 years. Justice is served.

I recently heard of a motto which seems rather apt.

"Life isn’t about waiting for the storm to pass – it’s about learning to dance in the rain"

I'd say now is an excellent time for dancing, with maybe a bit of fireworks and stuff.

I hope they take very good care of the person who has wrecked countless lives, and taken the lives of innocents, until she is forced to sit in a courtroom and face her crimes.

 

[Kemug]

My predictions for future JMO
Prior defense is it was all Lori and Alex. Chad seduced by Lori and they killed Tammy..look what they did to Charles and harassed her other husband.
Prior will have Chad divorce her quickly..
And well Means will just be in hospital with Lori.. JMO

If Chad had never met Lori, he may well have continued to live a law-abiding life with lovely Tammy. But no-one can make you become a murderer of innocent children and a loving wife. He is 100% guilty for his actions.

 

[Kemug]

The indictment states, “Lori N. Vallow, on or about July 11, 2019, with the intent to promote or aid the commission of an offense, to-wit: First Degree Murder, agreed with Alexander Cox that at least one of them or another would engage in conduct constituting the offense of First Degree Murder.”

Maricopa County Attorney's Office, AZ

meant to quote Emi

Does this really mean "one or other of them"?

 

[GRT]

The woman would probably even have offed Chad in a few years too.
Maybe he'll off himself anyway. No loss.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that LV is currently trying to get family/friends/cult members to do just that right now. Then, she could pin it all on CD.

Of course, CD is highly capable of doing the same thing to her.

 

[indicolite22]

If Chad had never met Lori, he may well have continued to live a law-abiding life with lovely Tammy. But no-one can make you become a murderer of innocent children and a loving wife. He is 100% guilty for his actions.

He predicted that Tammy's life would be cut short well before meeting Lori. He tried his "we've been married before" pick-up line on other women. IMO she was just the first willing to go all the way with his plans.

 

[GRT]

If Chad had never met Lori, he may well have continued to live a law-abiding life with lovely Tammy. But no-one can make you become a murderer of innocent children and a loving wife. He is 100% guilty for his actions.

To be sure, and CD craved cult power. The two of them were highly volatile personalities, and neither have a conscience. CD came up with the way to justify the murders--zombies had taken over the bodies, and the only way to save the children from zombie limbo was to destroy the bodies--and he also came up with a way to rate human beings based on lightness and darkness.

Both were bombs ready to detonate and both lit the fuse on the other.

 

[indicolite22]

The woman would probably even have offed Chad in a few years too.
Maybe he'll off himself anyway. No loss.

SBM. Guess who suggested to her that Charles was a zombie and not worth living? Good old Chad. IMO, he doesn't seem the type to kill himself. She on the other hand, apparently is having a harder time (lately) facing the music. There's no way of knowing what she'll do when the pressure is turned up.

 

[Tortoise]

Does this really mean "one or other of them"?

I think it means precisely what it says, another. I think it's probably word for word from the GJ indictment and I doubt it's a mistake.

"First Degree Murder, agreed with Alexander Cox that at least one of them or another would engage in conduct..."

You could take out the words "or another" completely if it was just Lori and Alex "[LV] agreed with Alexander Cox that at least one of them would engage in conduct...".

I suspect they know the identity of the "another" and that person might also face charges yet. My money is on CD the author, as LVD loved to introduce him. He authored the zombie manifesto.

 

[JolietJake]

There is really one "another" who would want CV out of the way and it will be interesting to see if there is enough evidence to add CD into this case. Arizona LE, Idaho LE, and the FBI have been working together gathering and deciphering evidence and as the trial or trials move forward in Idaho, we will learn a lot more.

 

[Cool Cats]

...that at least one of them or another (sic, I think they meant “or the other”) would engage in conduct constituting the offense of First Degree Murder.” I’m pretty sure that’s a conspiracy… isn’t it?

I guess I’m just bitter. All jmo

Yup! Whenever the criminal discusses a crime before hand even with just one person, both of them can be indicted for Criminal Conspiracy.

It's a slippery slope. If a witness goes to the cops and says they over heard - before the murder - that the murder was going to happen, then they are in jeopardy of being charged with Conspiracy, especialy if they were in the same room and got involved with the conversation.

Now someone could get you on your phone and say they are going to kill their wife
but you can say "I thought they were joking." This happens alot. But the difference is you start discussing plans about the murder then you might get arrested for Conspiracy.

A slippery slope because your a witness before the fact and it has to be determined if you are more than just a witness who overheard the conversation. How involved were you in the conversation? Why didn't you say anything? Were you trying to protect the murderers? If you weren't protecting the murderers then why not call the police?

Yes you can say you were afraid they would kill you but you need a good reason to think this. Like if they threatened you directly. Again, something for LE to figure out. Can be complicated like trying to hike up that slippery slope.

 

[Nosurprise]

Does anyone know if this has changed? Or what was it before when she was moved? I can't get it as not in USA. THANKS..

 

[Cool Cats]

Jun 29, 2021
Lori Vallow Moved From Idaho Jail - ksltv.com

VINELink - Empowering Victims of Crime

REXBURG — Lori Vallow Daybell may have been moved from the Madison County Jail to another facility, according to a VINE notification received by EastIdahoNews.com and others. The government will not confirm due to privacy laws.

This development comes days after EastIdahoNews.com obtained 169 pages of evidentiary case documents about Daybell that were sealed hours after we obtained them.

The message said Daybell was placed into “supervised custody” in “another facility.” VINE allows crime victims and others to obtain timely details about criminal cases and the custody status of offenders 24 hours a day.

The alleged move relates to Daybell’s mental health.

 

[GoofyJen]

Because Lori is back.

How do you know that?

 

[MadTing]

About time!

It has always blown my mind how nonchalantly the police at the time of Charles shooting so easily just accepted self defence while lori was even chuckling to them on body camera footage! Not only that but Charles had previously informed police that she had made threats to kill him and had taken large sums of money out and petitioned for her to be evaluated by a mental facility. Utterly mind blown that despite all of that they so easily accepted that he was shot in self defence for so long.

Even if they had missed the warning signs before his death, after his death knowing what Charles had told them about lori making threats to kill him, they should have now been on super high alert monitoring her every move after he was killed, yet still she and chad were able to go on a kill multiple other people. I hate to say it but i feel if LE had have taken Charles seriously from the start they could have not only prevented his own death but everybody else's.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I’m looking for charges for Melani Pawlinski (don’t know if I spelled her name correctly), Loris niece, in the attempted murder of Brandon Boudreaux. I believe she was the driver of the vehicle that Alex rode in when he shot at BB. One day, everything will come out and I hope she is charged also.

I do too. Her "guilt" drives me crazy constantly.