SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021 #2

[sunshineray]

Objectively, she does not fit in at all. In a PM as target motive, she could well have been murdered to "leave no witnesses".

Subjectively, SC and especially rural SC, is a traditional southern area where individuals are always part of families- and families can be seen to stand as one.

Thus, the attackers could also feel that any direct relative of PM is nearly equally "guilty" as PM- since they are presumed to "have his back". This is especially if they did not publicaly renounce him.

Or, the "justification" for the murder may have been a blurry mix of both reasons. I.E.- We are targeting PM specifically, but are willing to include any adult relative who happens to be with him. Btw, we cant have witnesses.

Ironically, the possible murderers themselves would have probably have continued to support a black sheep direct relative of theirs through thick and thin as well- and tried to help them any way they could.

But.... murderers also tend to exempt themselves from their own rules.

Very true, your last line. I was just finding it hard to understand the killer's thoughts, if targeting just PM, why then kill his mother so violently. Multiple shots from an assault rifle seems full of anger not just purpose.

If her son was the target wouldn't southern sensibilities toward a kind and well-thought of woman have them figuring out a way of getting him alone? It's a huge track of land to abduct a victim into and do the deed.

Murder is murder though, a very ugly thing. Thanks for your perspectives, it helps this Northerner try and figure things.

 

[Elley Mae]

Do we know much about the housekeepers death? I'm wondering if it wasn't just an accidental but tragic fall. I also wonder if per AM's advice, the housekeeper's family sued him for damages.

I had a friend who was driving with her brother in law and they wrecked and she incurred injuries. He told her to sue him so she could receive money from his insurance to help with hospital bills.

Don't know if that's what happened here but thought I'd mention it.

In reference to

Accidental fall

Iirc it was a wrongful death suit, not sure what difference is.

 

[stmarysmead]

Very true, your last line. I was just finding it hard to understand the killer's thoughts, if targeting just PM, why then kill his mother so violently. Multiple shots from an assault rifle seems full of anger not just purpose.

If her son was the target wouldn't southern sensibilities toward a kind and well-thought of woman have them figuring out a way of getting him alone? It's a huge track of land to abduct a victim into and do the deed.

Murder is murder though, a very ugly thing. Thanks for your perspectives, it helps this Northerner try and figure things.

I have wondered that too.

Perhaps, it was perceived that MM was PM’s chief enabler. I had a friend like that. It was her influence on her husband that kept him bailing out their son beyond his better judgement. It was common knowledge. Therefore in that case, the son’s behavior reverberated back to her…even more than to her husband.

But, we all might be distracted by the controversies around PM.

I, like many stay-at-home wives manage our household. That would include hiring and firing those that work for us…either on a regular basis or even seasonally. MM no doubt had housekeepers, and ‘yard guys’, maybe a gardener, and definitely a live-in manager at the Lodge…who may have bern recently fired. Their anger if provoked…might rest squarely with her. It may be that PM jumped in to defend his Mother and things escalated.

Or the killers came there demanding something and believed MM was denying them access to it.

I’m really curious as to why MM was found at the kennels. Every since Sustained pointed out the distance being several football fields, I just cannot see her walking from the main house to the kennels on a rainy night. If she went, I think she drove, either with or without PM. And, because they have a lot of wildlife around like we do, she’d take her phone.

Alternatively, she could be driving in and stopped there. And she’d have that phone. But why go in that driveway when there’s a closer entrance leading to the house? And the fields would be muddy.

If the killers forced her there…why THERE?

 

[Razz]

Wrongful Death and Survival Claims in South Carolina | Blog

For anyone who is interested.

 

[Cryptic]

If her son was the target wouldn't southern sensibilities toward a kind and well-thought of woman have them figuring out a way of getting him alone? It's a huge track of land to abduct a victim into and do the deed.

Murder is murder though, a very ugly thing. Thanks for your perspectives, it helps this Northerner try and figure things.

Men and women are know pretty much equal in everything. This may include the ability be included in a possible vengeance based motive as an adult relative.

Also, I think some accounts of southern chivalry towards women may have been exaggerated.

I once read a book on clan based violence in Appalachia from the civil war to the 1950s. The author expected to largely confirm the popular image: Sturdy mountaineers adhering to a rigorous honor code that targeted "guilty" males, but spared the innocent.

Instead, he found plenty of female deaths as feuding clans burned down cabins, tossed mining dynamite through windows, sprayed houses and later- cars with gunfire etc. On occasion, unaccompanied women were stopped and stripped by males from a rival clan as a humiliation. Some probably did not stop there.

Even churches could be attacked in the same manner. One case involved men and women victims being called out from a Georgia mountain church by name and false promises. When they complied, they were shot.

Likewise, few men were killed in face to face combat. Rather killings of rivals (a good number of whom were obviously unarmed at the time) in ambushes, snipings, attacks after false peace promises, booby traps and other trickery were the norm.

There were even cases of "selected" vengeance where men from smaller families were killed simply because it was safer to attack them- even if they were only distantly related to those involved in the feud. The murders would then declare the feud settled.

 

[GordianKnot]

After reading those comments on PMs obit page yesterday, I’m more open to the revenge theory than before. I’m sure those have been followed up but it just seems more plausible to me now.

Those pseudo-Mallory condolence posts are appalling, but I'm 99% confident they were the disgusting creation of internet trolls vs. people who actually knew either MB or PM.

The fact that trolls would post comments like that on memorial sites/pages is vile.

It's bad enough that they spread their toxic waste on SM.

Ugly, ugly people.

JMO.

 

[genuineusa77]

Do we know much about the housekeepers death? I'm wondering if it wasn't just an accidental but tragic fall. I also wonder if per AM's advice, the housekeeper's family sued him for damages.

I had a friend who was driving with her brother in law and they wrecked and she incurred injuries. He told her to sue him so she could receive money from his insurance to help with hospital bills.

Don't know if that's what happened here but thought I'd mention it.

Then his insurance went way up! Right?

 

[GordianKnot]

Do we know much about the housekeepers death? I'm wondering if it wasn't just an accidental but tragic fall. I also wonder if per AM's advice, the housekeeper's family sued him for damages.

I had a friend who was driving with her brother in law and they wrecked and she incurred injuries. He told her to sue him so she could receive money from his insurance to help with hospital bills.

Don't know if that's what happened here but thought I'd mention it.

I sincerely hope that SLED is taking a good, hard look at the circumstances surrounding that "accidental fall."

The final settlement in that case appears to have been for the amount that the insurance covered, which means the Ms wouldn't have had to pay anything out of their own pockets.

I do wonder whether the plaintiff's lawyer in that case is friendly with the Murdaugh family.

JMO.

 

[Cryptic]

The final settlement in that case appears to have been for the amount that the insurance covered, which means the Ms wouldn't have had to pay anything beyond what insurance covered.

I do wonder whether the plaintiff's lawyer in that case is friendly with the Murdaugh family.

The plaintiff's attorney would not have been facing the usual individual lawsuit target.

Rather, he or she was facing somebody access of to generations of lawsuit knowledge and the ability to act as his own attorney.

Thus, M's negotiating position might have been:

- Accept the substantial insurance pay out as easy money -or-

- I will never get tired acting as my own attorney. I have access to multi generational family knowledge regarding lawsuits and access to expert advise from my own firm.

- Ask for more and get a judgement- years later, after I do every delay trick in the book.

- I will instantly appeal the judgement. This takes more time. I might have an argument that will negate the entire judgement- forcing you to go to Court all over again.

-I will then appeal the judgement again on another grounds. This can take.... additional time.

Lets see who gets tired first. Me, trying to save my home or.....your attorney looking for fast money. Tired attorneys submit tired arguments.

 

[Razz]

The plaintiff's attorney would not have been facing the usual individual lawsuit target.

Rather, he or she was facing somebody access of to generations of lawsuit knowledge and the ability to act as his own attorney.

Thus, M's negotiating position might have been:

- Accept the substantial insurance pay out as easy money -or-

- I will never get tired acting as my own attorney. I have access to multi generational family knowledge regarding lawsuits and access to expert advise from my own firm.

- Ask for more and get a judgement- years later, after I do every delay trick in the book.

- I will instantly appeal the judgement. This takes more time. I might have an argument that will negate the entire judgement- forcing you to go to Court all over again.

-I will then appeal the judgement again on another grounds. This can take.... additional time.

Lets see who gets tired first. Me, trying to save my home or.....your attorney looking for fast money. Tired attorneys submit tired arguments.

Maybe that's what happened in mediation re MB.

 

[MommyPlatt]

I’m really curious as to why MM was found at the kennels. Every since Sustained pointed out the distance being several football fields, I just cannot see her walking from the main house to the kennels on a rainy night. If she went, I think she drove, either with or without PM. And, because they have a lot of wildlife around like we do, she’d take her phone.

Alternatively, she could be driving in and stopped there. And she’d have that phone. But why go in that driveway when there’s a closer entrance leading to the house? And the fields would be muddy.

If the killers forced her there…why THERE?

I have a theory…MM and PM also visited with dying grandpa but drove a separate vehicle. They went home (maybe even planning to stop and feed the dogs). AM stopped by to visit his mom instead of going straight home. Maybe this is how LE is so certain of the time of death based on when they left the hospital. This also provides AM with “an ironclad alibi”.
Just my opinion.

 

[Sustained]

I have a theory…MM and PM also visited with dying grandpa but drove a separate vehicle. They went home (maybe even planning to stop and feed the dogs). AM stopped by to visit his mom instead of going straight home. Maybe this is how LE is so certain of the time of death based on when they left the hospital. This also provides AM with “an ironclad alibi”.
Just my opinion.

My thoughts exactly ...

 

[worm]

There were questions earlier about why the mother if PM was the intended victim and I wondered if we knew of the time they came home. Point being, could she, or he, have just gotten there and the perp wasn’t expecting more than one person and just murdered the witness?

 

[stmarysmead]

There were questions earlier about why the mother if PM was the intended victim and I wondered if we knew of the time they came home. Point being, could she, or he, have just gotten there and the perp wasn’t expecting more than one person and just murdered the witness?

‘I like this theory. She arrived and stopped because Paul was there at the stables with some people. Could he have been dead on the ground and she jumped out to run to him and was shot herself? Between 9 and 9:30 doesn’t have to mean both at the same time.

 

[mark majors]

July 22, 2021 is the date wherein all pending Common Pleas filed with the court will be assigned a date and a judge.

The lawyer representing The Post and Courier's Common Plea will attend either physically or in person to attain a date and judge for the hearing of their Common Plea.

A date will be assigned for the Common Plea filed by The Post and Courier as well as the name of the judge on July 22nd.



https://publicindex.sccourts.org/Co...118077795565657889995547531008670796671817385

What is the difference between physically and in person?

 

[swedeheart]

Video and timeline included in this article, posted today. I didn't see it already posted, but apologies if I missed it.

Murdaugh Murder Mystery: Timeline of events surrounding 4 South Carolina deaths

 

[zencompass]

What is the difference between physically and in person?

Thank you for catching my error!

I was thinking "zoom" calls but typed "either physically or in person".

As the I.T. person used to tell me, "sometimes the glitch is between the chair and the keyboard".

 

[lonetraveler]

Though I don't hunt very often, I always use the term "hunting" to describe that activity. Likewise, my friends who are avid hunters also use the term "hunting" exclusively.

Yes, I'm thinking you would only use the term "shooting" is if you are skeet shooting.

 

[Luna20]

The M brothers were very well aware of it - they're just not going to let on to the general public they are aware.

By saying it though they did let on to the general public more so. It’s not even plausible for a 3 generation law firm to never have a trace of animosity towards them. It comes with the territory of being a lawyer. I don’t see many people buying that storyline in just the simplest of ways…common sense. It made the brothers come across as less credible.

Making that statement in a publicized interview in my opinion was nonsensical. Factor in the MB case and Paul’s previous run ins alone are enough to pause over there being any animosity.

JMO

 

[Luna20]

Responding to the above post.



By saying it though they did let on to the general public more so. It’s not even plausible for a 3 generation law firm to never have a trace of animosity towards them. It comes with the territory of being a lawyer. I don’t see many people buying that storyline in just the simplest of ways…common sense. It made the brothers come across as less credible.

Making that statement in a publicized interview in my opinion was nonsensical. Factor in the MB case and Paul’s previous run ins alone are enough to pause over there being any animosity.