GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

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If I recall correctly, it was GW4 who made the comment about "if they have the gun, they have the silencer". IMO it wasn't BW who made that statement.

I recall that, too.

I interpret the remark as GW4 knowing what was buried and where. It sounds like he knows that one of the guns was buried/disposed of along with a silencer.

At the time of his statement (well before JW's confession) he didn't realize that BCI hadn't found the gun, but had only used the photos of the guns they had posted on social media. I'll have to go back to re-read.

Billy probably knows FWF better than any of them. He may have chosen the location, with FW and GW4 carrying it out.
I could see Billy supervising them in the barn or somewhere similar in the process of mixing concrete, filling buckets, etc.

JMO, the 4 Wagners were interchangeable parts of a single murderous machine.
 
Thank you. You have to wonder why they are doing ancestry searches for Giv's defense.

JMO, MOO
Could be there is some unknown DNA in one or more of the homes they are trying to find a match to. Just from day to day living there could be unknown DNA in a home.
I recall that, too.

I interpret the remark as GW4 knowing what was buried and where. It sounds like he knows that one of the guns was buried/disposed of along with a silencer.

At the time of his statement (well before JW's confession) he didn't realize that BCI hadn't found the gun, but had only used the photos of the guns they had posted on social media. I'll have to go back to re-read.

Billy probably knows FWF better than any of them. He may have chosen the location, with FW and GW4 carrying it out.
I could see Billy supervising them in the barn or somewhere similar in the process of mixing concrete, filling buckets, etc.

JMO, the 4 Wagners were interchangeable parts of a single murderous machine.

I believe I remember the BCI agent saying in court that he sent G4 a pic of gun and silencer. If you go back and listen or read let me know. Thanks
 
I do wonder what ancestry has to do with anything.

Thanks for the docs, CO!

I know, I was wondering the same thing, especially "input" into Ancestry. Were they looking at the Rhoden family tree? Now, I'll have to go look.

JMO, most of the defense teams' activities right now are probably focused on 1) finding "red herrings" - other suspects they can claim were the real killers and 2) finding anything they can to make it appear that LE conducted a flawed investigation

I was thinking as I reviewed the PI's billable activities that we should start charging for our work :p ;)

<modsnip> JMO
 
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Thanks for the docs, CO!

I know, I was wondering the same thing, especially "input" into Ancestry. Were they looking at the Rhoden family tree? Now, I'll have to go look.

JMO, most of the defense teams' activities right now are probably focused on 1) finding "red herrings" - other suspects they can claim were the real killers and 2) finding anything they can to make it appear that LE conducted a flawed investigation

I was thinking as I reviewed the PI's billable activities that we should start charging for our work :p ;)

I still can't believe there was anything of value for them to look at on Topix, unless the GW4's defense is planning to use information there to buttress claims of other suspects, etc. JMO

I would say they were looking for DNA for an unknown sample possibly.

<modsnip>
 
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Could be there is some unknown DNA in one or more of the homes they are trying to find a match to. Just from day to day living there could be unknown DNA in a home.

That's possible, and would explain "input", if they were submitting some phantom DNA. I do know Ancestry.com is one of the more strict sites when it comes to allowing use of DNA to help LE. Everything is pretty "locked down" there and Ancestry requires LE to get permission from the Ancestry member to investigate their DNA connection.

If GW4's PI found some kind of match for any DNA they submitted, they would need to hire a genetic genealogist to narrow it down to an individual. Also one more reason to remove my DNA profile from that web site, if it means some private investigator is snooping around to see if a distant relative happened to (innocently) leave some DNA at a crime scene.

JMO, MOO
 
I would say they were looking for DNA for an unknown sample possibly.

AW probably posted in that site and the prosecution has that and the defense is trying to figure how to explain that. It could also be some of the many suspects they seem to think they have that posted on topix and something they said.

If they're looking at "unknown" DNA from one of the crime scenes, would the court documents reflect someone from defense asking for the actual sample to use? Personally, I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

Unknown DNA at a crime scene could be an effective "red herring" for the defense, but it has limited value. There are many reasons why someone's DNA shows up at a crime scene, especially if its a home that had many visitors over time.

There are so many possibilities, depending on the source of the DNA (blood, sweat, fingerprint?) and where it was found (kitchen, front porch, on a gun or silencer?)
 
If they're looking at "unknown" DNA from one of the crime scenes, would the court documents reflect someone from defense asking for the actual sample to use? Personally, I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

Unknown DNA at a crime scene could be an effective "red herring" for the defense, but it has limited value. There are many reasons why someone's DNA shows up at a crime scene, especially if its a home that had many visitors over time.

There are so many possibilities, depending on the source of the DNA (blood, sweat, fingerprint?) and where it was found (kitchen, front porch, on a gun or silencer?)

I agree too many people come and go in normal day to day living that could leave DNA. The defense may have access to an actual sample through discovery.

<modsnip>
 
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I agree too many people come and go in normal day to day living that could leave DNA. The defense may have access to an actual sample through discovery.

<modsnip>
G4 tried to have a 76 yo. deposed. Claimed this deposition was critical to G4's case and had important information related to his case.
The witnesses' husband was deceased.

We have wondered if the 76 yo and deceased husband might be FW and her late husband Bob (deceased 8/2017).

I'm not sure if there were any prior DNA samples from Bob. At that point maybe the only way to establish a DNA link to G4 (or DNA in evidence) is to trace their ancestry.

JMO, MOO, thinking out loud.
 
G4 tried to have a 76 yo. deposed. Claimed this deposition was critical to G4's case and had important information related to his case.
The witnesses' husband was deceased.

We have wondered if the 76 yo and deceased husband might be FW and her late husband Bob (deceased 8/2017).

I'm not sure if there were any prior DNA samples from Bob. At that point maybe the only way to establish a DNA link to G4 (or DNA in evidence) is to trace their ancestry.

JMO, MOO, thinking out loud.

Maybe there is a witness they cannot find but have a sample from when they were in jail before and trying to trace their family. I am still trying to think of stuff. ha
 
Thank you. You have to wonder why they are doing ancestry searches for Giv's defense.

JMO, MOO

I speculate it has to do with one of two things, or both. All MO.
Defense may be checking into ancestry of one or more witnesses to see if they can use a relationship to the Rhoden/Manley Family to discredit that witness.
MO. I can think of one possible witness that could fit that description. He/she would be highly informative and credible for Prosecution. Defense try at this tactic won't work.
Or, and this is way out there, Defense may have been told of by a W and may be looking for some remote Wagner/Rhoden way back family relationship to try to show (some) W's would never agree to murder a relation. This is bizarre, but just think of some of the things the W's have said.
My limited experience with Ancestry is that they are very strict with DNA info.
Family Trees are more easily accessed by others.
Again, MO, but there are some very complicated and extensive Family Trees in Pike County and on UHR.
 
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Expert Expense Payment Request for BW.
Forensic psychologist.
<modnsip>

Interesting. The psychologists interview with GW3 was February 19 of this year. Not absolutely sure what that means. It's not known if he knew in advance of Jake's confession. It may have been the result of his attorneys checking to see if he had any issues that might have an impact on his upcoming trial.
 
Interesting. The psychologists interview with GW3 was February 19 of this year. Not absolutely sure what that means. It's not known if he knew in advance of Jake's confession. It may have been the result of his attorneys checking to see if he had any issues that might have an impact on his upcoming trial.

May be to see if he could fall under the standards for an insane defense if it came to that. That is one thing that a forensic psychologist interview for.
 
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We might be misreading/misunderstanding the use of the word ancestry.
I was thinking Ancestry.com. Also possible DNA.
It may simply mean Ancestry.

Definition of ancestry
1: line of descent : LINEAGEespecially : honorable, noble, or aristocratic descent
2: persons initiating or comprising a line of descent : ANCESTORS

Family Tree. Relatives and relationships going back generations.
so "input ancestry" could mean creating the charts, the Family Tree
There is also mention of research - Probate courts and obituaries.
This fits with establishing Family Tree info.
But, Why?
 
Does anyone know if psychologist interviews with defendants is like a “standard” thing to defendants charged as the Wagner’s are , but before JW changed his plea ? I don’t know, just wondering.

IANAL, but it's probably not that unusual to have a psych evaluation in such a serious case as this. Judging by the horrible crime, it's logical to think the killers had something wrong with them to inflict such brutality on so many innocent people. Insanity defenses are very difficult. The defense attorney has to prove the defendant was unaware that the crime they were committing was against the law.

IDK, maybe the defense attorneys think any kind of serious mental problem or cognitive defect, etc. that GW3 has could have impaired his judgment. Maybe they were thinking it might prevent GW3 getting the DP. Of course, it wouldn't be an issue now, since the DP is off the table. There's obviously something about the 4 Wagners that makes them very different from the rest of us.

Reminds us of the William Blake poem:

Tyger Tyger, burning bright,
In the forests of the night;
What immortal hand or eye,
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

In what distant deeps or skies.
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
On what wings dare he aspire?
What the hand, dare seize the fire?

And what shoulder, & what art,
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
And when thy heart began to beat,
What dread hand? & what dread feet?

What the hammer? what the chain,
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? what dread grasp,
Dare its deadly terrors clasp!

When the stars threw down their spears
And water’d heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

Tyger Tyger burning bright,
In the forests of the night:
What immortal hand or eye,
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?

A Short Analysis of William Blake’s ‘The Tyger’
 
I recall that, too.

I interpret the remark as GW4 knowing what was buried and where. It sounds like he knows that one of the guns was buried/disposed of along with a silencer.

At the time of his statement (well before JW's confession) he didn't realize that BCI hadn't found the gun, but had only used the photos of the guns they had posted on social media. I'll have to go back to re-read.

Billy probably knows FWF better than any of them. He may have chosen the location, with FW and GW4 carrying it out.
I could see Billy supervising them in the barn or somewhere similar in the process of mixing concrete, filling buckets, etc.

JMO, the 4 Wagners were interchangeable parts of a single murderous machine.

Anybody who watches breaking bad should recognize this method. It's the same as hank used on walt with the barrellanof moneybpictures. They knew what the barrels looked like buy not location. Sent walt pick of barrels with topaz busted open and Bill's coming out. Walt drove straight tonloc ation they tracked him....
 
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