GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[Caylee Advocate]

You mean rumor KR was shot with his own gun? I had never heard that. But if that was true it would go to some thoughts I had at one time.

Yes KR, but as I said... a locally well discussed "rumor" shortly after the news broke.

 

[Covert Operative]

Yes KR, but as I said... a locally well discussed "rumor" shortly after the news broke.

It is very strange they have never mentioned him in regard to any evidence, what he was shot with or if casings or anything were found at his crime scene.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

It is very strange they have never mentioned him in regard to any evidence, what he was shot with or if casings or anything were found at his crime scene.

I agree, it's like a piece of the puzzle is still missing for some odd reason. I have a thought but not comfortable stating it.

 

[Covert Operative]

I agree, it's like a piece of the puzzle is still missing for some odd reason. I have a thought but not comfortable stating it.

It's like there is some twist with his murder that happened when the W's killed him but we do not know what it is.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Slightly O/T, but if anyone is interested I posted some relatively new information in this thread:

GUILTY - OH - Sheriff Charles Reader, charged with theft in office, Pike County, 29 June 2019

 

[sunshineray]

So GW4 may not yet have seen everything Jake said to and did for the prosecution. How many think when GW4 does see everything his brother has admitted and explained in detail that he'll accept a plea? What are the odds? I think 80/20 he will plea.

BBM

"His younger brother, 28-year-old Edward “Jake” Wagner, pleaded guilty two months ago and agreed to cooperate in the cases against the other three defendants under a deal to help all four avoid potential death sentences. Prosecutors have said he provided a full account of what happened, plus information that led to them to more evidence.

Attorneys for George Wagner IV said Monday they haven’t yet seen what Jake Wagner provided to prosecutors but expect to get that information from them by an early August deadline."

Man's trial in 8 slayings set for April after brother's plea

 

[Covert Operative]

So GW4 may not yet have seen everything Jake said to and did for the prosecution. How many think when GW4 does see everything his brother has admitted and explained in detail that he'll accept a plea? What are the odds? I think 80/20 he will plea.

BBM

"His younger brother, 28-year-old Edward “Jake” Wagner, pleaded guilty two months ago and agreed to cooperate in the cases against the other three defendants under a deal to help all four avoid potential death sentences. Prosecutors have said he provided a full account of what happened, plus information that led to them to more evidence.

Attorneys for George Wagner IV said Monday they haven’t yet seen what Jake Wagner provided to prosecutors but expect to get that information from them by an early August deadline."

Man's trial in 8 slayings set for April after brother's plea

Th state is suppose to give JW's proffer to G4 defense by August 2nd. I think it depends on the plea deal whether he will or not. If he is going to get LWOP in a plea or LWOP in a trial then he may just go to trial and take his chances.

 

[Betty P]

Th state is suppose to give JW's proffer to G4 defense by August 2nd. I think it depends on the plea deal whether he will or not. If he is going to get LWOP in a plea or LWOP in a trial then he may just go to trial and take his chances.

Covert Operative, please forgive my forgetful self, but wasn't there a document that you posted that noted GW4's attorneys were given the evidence from Jake's confession on the same day as GW4's last hearing? I seem to recall that but ICBW.

IOW, I think GW4 and his attorney have had that evidence for a while now. That's why we were all waiting to hear something from his attorney WRT a second plea deal, this time from GW4.

 

[IType]

I looked at GW4's docket, and the summary of the 6/21/21 hearing has been posted. A couple things caught my eye.

With regard to GW4's trial scheduled for 4/4/22, I thought it was posted on here that the court was planning a three week trial. But, according to the docket, they are planning a three month trial:

"Further, upon agreement of the parties a jury trial is scheduled in this matter to commence on Monday, April 4, 2022, at 8:30 o'clock a.m., with three months allotted."

With regard to JW's proffer, according to the docket it is 10 hours long. Holy schnikes!

"Counsel for the Defendant indicated to the Court that the Defendant would probably need longer than sixty (60) days after receipt of the proffer of Edward Jacob Wagner in which to provide reciprocal discovery to the State of Ohio, in view of the fact that defense counsel is informed that the proffer is approximately ten (10) hours in length."

https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eserv...6S5IVDMfcohpwbVD-nZMQgFHh7QyvWuLaQHeEKEU8Snfw

 

[Covert Operative]

Covert Operative, please forgive my forgetful self, but wasn't there a document that you posted that noted GW4's attorneys were given the evidence from Jake's confession on the same day as GW4's last hearing? I seem to recall that but ICBW.

IOW, I think GW4 and his attorney have had that evidence for a while now. That's why we were all waiting to hear something from his attorney WRT a second plea deal, this time from GW4.

I believe they have the video, discovery etc. but they are suppose to get the proffer by August 2nd. Apparently proffers must have a lot of information in them, more than I had thought.

G4 - From court view notes: The Court finds that the Defendant has requested through discovery that the State of Ohio furnish the Defendant with a copy of the proffer of Edward Jacob Wagner, and that the State of Ohio has agreed to furnish a copy of the proffer to defense counsel on or before August 2, 2021.

 

[sunshineray]

I looked at GW4's docket, and the summary of the 6/21/21 hearing has been posted. A couple things caught my eye.

With regard to GW4's trial scheduled for 4/4/22, I thought it was posted on here that the court was planning a three week trial. But, according to the docket, they are planning a three month trial:

"Further, upon agreement of the parties a jury trial is scheduled in this matter to commence on Monday, April 4, 2022, at 8:30 o'clock a.m., with three months allotted."

With regard to JW's proffer, according to the docket it is 10 hours long. Holy schnikes!

"Counsel for the Defendant indicated to the Court that the Defendant would probably need longer than sixty (60) days after receipt of the proffer of Edward Jacob Wagner in which to provide reciprocal discovery to the State of Ohio, in view of the fact that defense counsel is informed that the proffer is approximately ten (10) hours in length."

https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eserv...6S5IVDMfcohpwbVD-nZMQgFHh7QyvWuLaQHeEKEU8Snfw

So what I wonder does a defense attorney do in a situation like that? Do they schedule a couple hours at a time for their client to view every moment if JW's proffer or just pick and choose what to show him? I wonder how JW was asked questions during it...you know...And what was your brother GW4 doing, saying, acting like while he committed this or watched you do that? 10 hours worth of planning, execution and cover-up and don't forget the threats to do more violence and crime if caught.

 

[IType]

So what I wonder does a defense attorney do in a situation like that? Do they schedule a couple hours at a time for their client to view every moment if JW's proffer or just pick and choose what to show him? I wonder how JW was asked questions during it...you know...And what was your brother GW4 doing, saying, acting like while he committed this or watched you do that? 10 hours worth of planning, execution and cover-up and don't forget the threats to do more violence and crime if caught.

I have no idea how that works, but I'd love to be a fly on the wall to see GW4's reaction to what his little brother had to say!

I also wonder if JW in this proffer gave information about bulletproof vests. I don't recall any mention of them in the more recent discovery filings since JW's plea change. IMO

 

[Ann99]

MO and Theory
Thinking about KR.
I agree it has always seemed as though we have had little information, so sad.
I wonder if KR struggled with his Assailant and caused some injury to that person.
At random times posters have theorized it was AW who KR let into his trailer under some pretext. Maybe one of the men followed after she gained entry.

It was never stated publicly if KR gun was found. It was also rumored the Assailants apparently looked for KR phone, supposedly kept up in the top window area.

IF a W did take KR gun and had it in his/her possession, was it one of the guns found hidden in the pond in the cement buckets? Is that possible?

Do we know for sure how many of the previously identified W guns were among those in the pond? We know general descriptions. Has very specific info. been held back?

Could there have been another gun, similar description, belonging to KR?

I can not imagine that JW put his beloved weapon in that pond in a cement bucket.

Can fingerprints be taken off of a gun?

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Dudly]

MO and Theory
Thinking about KR.
I agree it has always seemed as though we have had little information, so sad.
I wonder if KR struggled with his Assailant and caused some injury to that person.
At random times posters have theorized it was AW who KR let into his trailer under some pretext. Maybe one of the men followed after she gained entry.

It was never stated publicly if KR gun was found. It was also rumored the Assailants apparently looked for KR phone, supposedly kept up in the top window area.

IF a W did take KR gun and had it in his/her possession, was it one of the guns found hidden in the pond in the cement buckets? Is that possible?

Do we know for sure how many of the previously identified W guns were among those in the pond? We know general descriptions. Has very specific info. been held back?

Could there have been another gun, similar description, belonging to KR?

I can not imagine that JW put his beloved weapon in that pond in a cement bucket.

Can fingerprints be taken off of a gun?

Thoughts anyone?

As far as JW’s beloved gun goes, I have thought it may have been wrapped in heavy plastic to protect it in the cement. That way it could have been retrieved in the future after everything with the case was over and they were in the clear.

 

[Puzzles8]

So what I wonder does a defense attorney do in a situation like that? Do they schedule a couple hours at a time for their client to view every moment if JW's proffer or just pick and choose what to show him? I wonder how JW was asked questions during it...you know...And what was your brother GW4 doing, saying, acting like while he committed this or watched you do that? 10 hours worth of planning, execution and cover-up and don't forget the threats to do more violence and crime if caught.

In fairness to G4, I think his lawyers have to show him the whole proffer and tapes so he can make an informed decision.

It involves G4's life...

JMO, MOO

 

[Betty P]

I've never heard anything about KR's gun. The Wagners had their own weapons, why would they need KR's gun?

It was a small area, a 5th wheel type camper. I always assumed one of the Wagners had been there before, cased it, made friends with the dogs and knew where KR slept. They would only need to open the door, step in turn and shoot him in his sleep. IIRC, only one shot was fired.

I, too, would like to know when KR's murder happened. According to the preliminary autopsy reports, his TOD wasn't that much different from the others, with the exception that Chris Sr's TOD was believed earliest of all the victims.

The thing to keep in mind, knowing there were multiple weapons and vehicles used to kill the family members, is that the Wagners may have had one person go to kill KR, while the others killed the family members on Union Hill Rd.

Perhaps they were in teams with AW going with Billy down to Left Fork Rd.

 

[Ann99]

As far as JW’s beloved gun goes, I have thought it may have been wrapped in heavy plastic to protect it in the cement. That way it could have been retrieved in the future after everything with the case was over and they were in the clear.

I think you could be right about this, if that method were totally protective.

What I wonder about is the threats (those referred to in the discovery, etc against De Wine, various LE) W's made if one of them were arrested.
How would they carry out a threat without their guns?
They must have had at least one weapon in their possession.
I don't see W's living weapon free.
Maybe they had easy access to obtaining more weapons.
MO

 

[Ann99]

I've never heard anything about KR's gun. The Wagners had their own weapons, why would they need KR's gun?

It was a small area, a 5th wheel type camper. I always assumed one of the Wagners had been there before, cased it, made friends with the dogs and knew where KR slept. They would only need to open the door, step in turn and shoot him in his sleep. IIRC, only one shot was fired.

I, too, would like to know when KR's murder happened. According to the preliminary autopsy reports, his TOD wasn't that much different from the others, with the exception that Chris Sr's TOD was believed earliest of all the victims.

The thing to keep in mind, knowing there were multiple weapons and vehicles used to kill the family members, is that the Wagners may have had one person go to kill KR, while the others killed the family members on Union Hill Rd.

Perhaps they were in teams with AW going with Billy down to Left Fork Rd.

MO Theory
Wagners may have wanted KR gun for a cruel and bizarre reason.
They are monsters.

If KR were shot first, W's could have used his gun at UHR to cause confusion, make it seem as if KR had been there and then went home, committed suicide.
I dislike even typing this theory let alone thinking about the possibility of it.

I believe it happened as you describe, with AW and Billy.

The entire scenario of what really happened at Left Fork is a complete mystery.

 

[Ann99]

In fairness to G4, I think his lawyers have to show him the whole proffer and tapes so he can make an informed decision.

It involves G4's life...

JMO, MOO

I agree. GW4 lawyers have to disclose all in their possession to GW4.
Otherwise, lawyers open themselves up to scrutiny for ineffective counsel.

I'm not sure GW4 has the capability to understand the facts presented against him and the others as FACTS.

He may still be under the Wagner Cult mindset that W's did nothing.
Self proclaimed innocence.
An example, think of all the things FW has said in interviews...
MO

 

[Dudly]

I think you could be right about this, if that method were totally protective.

What I wonder about is the threats (those referred to in the discovery, etc against De Wine, various LE) W's made if one of them were arrested.
How would they carry out a threat without their guns?
They must have had at least one weapon in their possession.
I don't see W's living weapon free.
Maybe they had easy access to obtaining more weapons.
MO

They still had hunting rifles and shotguns. Something about bears in Alaska was mentioned and they were told to keep their guns handy or something to that effect...