Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #4 *ARREST*

[Estelle]

I don't think that B's motive for his relationship with C was sex. He seems to have had two other women for that so I would not have thought that B was grooming C for sex. I also think that when there is genuine love, the age difference does not matter. I was a late starter (being in my 2os) in that area but many of my friends weren't. But where did they get the opportunity? For all we know, C may have been 17yo before they ever had sex.

It appears to me that B love bombed C for a few years and, in return, C gave B all the adoration, admiration and attention that he was craving. C must have just finished her last exams at school when they were married in Portugal in her summer holidays. That suited C as she wanted to study pastry making a Piraeus University so would have to move to Athens anyway so why not live with B? I'm not sure how having a baby so early really fitted into her plans. Maybe neither believed in contraception or, more likely, B thought C having a baby would give him more control of C. Most parents bring up their children to finish their studies first. After all, she had a miscarriage so C could have made sure she did not get pregnant again after that - but she did. Being a narcissist, once B had trapped C into marriage and having a baby, he assumed C would continue to idolise him so he isolated her more and more. When C complained, B suffered from Narcissistic injury.

Narcissistic injury is a cause of distress and can lead to dysregulation of behaviors as in narcissistic rage. Narcissistic rage occurs on a continuum, which may range from instances of aloofness and expressions of mild irritation or annoyance to serious outbursts, including violent attacks and murder.

 

[Dotta]

Causes of narcissistic personality disorder

Childhood abuse or neglect, excessive parental pampering, unrealistic expectations from parents, sexual promiscuity (often accompanies narcissism)

Narcissists crave attention, adoration, admiration from others and when you stop giving it to them they suffer from narcissistic injury.

What are the stages of a narcissistic relationship?

The relationship cycle typical of extreme narcissistic abuse generally follows a pattern. Individuals in emotionally abusive relationships experience a dizzying whirlwind that includes three stages:

1. idealization,
2. devaluing, and
3. discarding.

How long do narcissistic relationships last?

Narcissists lose interest as the expectation of intimacy increases, or when they've won at their game. Many have trouble sustaining a relationship for more than six months to a few years. They prioritize power over intimacy and loathe vulnerability, which they consider weak.

What tactics do narcissists use?

Narcissists employ charm, using their wit, resources, talent, conversational skills, and self-promotion through boasting, embellishing, and lying to manage their impression. These strategies boost their self-image and raise their status with others.

You absolutely nailed the causes of this disorder - B cut off ties with his family during his marriage. Isnt it telling??? Our personality is formed during infancy and childhood. Of course genes we inherit count, but upbringing is decisive.

 

[tayaway]

I don't think that B's motive for his relationship with C was sex. He seems to have had two other women for that so I would not have thought that B was grooming C for sex. I also think that when there is genuine love, the age difference does not matter. I was a late starter (being in my 2os) in that area but many of my friends weren't. But where did they get the opportunity? For all we know, C may have been 17yo before they ever had sex.

It appears to me that B love bombed C for a few years and, in return, C gave B all the adoration, admiration and attention that he was craving. C must have just finished her last exams at school when they were married in Portugal in her summer holidays. That suited C as she wanted to study pastry making a Piraeus University so would have to move to Athens anyway so why not live with B? I'm not sure how having a baby so early really fitted into her plans. Maybe neither believed in contraception or, more likely, B thought C having a baby would give him more control of C. Most parents bring up their children to finish their studies first. After all, she had a miscarriage so C could have made sure she did not get pregnant again after that - but she did. Being a narcissist, once B had trapped C into marriage and having a baby, he assumed C would continue to idolise him so he isolated her more and more. When C complained, B suffered from Narcissistic injury.

Narcissistic injury is a cause of distress and can lead to dysregulation of behaviors as in narcissistic rage. Narcissistic rage occurs on a continuum, which may range from instances of aloofness and expressions of mild irritation or annoyance to serious outbursts, including violent attacks and murder.

They consummated the relationship shortly after she turned 15. She made a cryptic FB post Sept 2, 2016, that the Tunnel show referenced. Remember also that there were coworkers of his at the airline company he worked for in 2016 that noted he was in a relationship with a minor who looked like a little girl. EM also remarked that it was probably (watching her words) 2016. None of these witnesses said that B was acting as a good friend or plutonic with C, they made it clear that the couple were serious when she was 15. We must stop trying to paint a better pic of B; once C was legal (15), things got serious, as part of the grooming. It didn't matter how many chicks he had going, the goal was to snare C and get some of that family money (which he certainly did). IMO, the only reason he waited until she turned 15 is because he didn't want to go to jail. The actual sex may not have got B off (maybe he had to think of somebody else), but taking her virginity certainly fed his narc mind, and with her 15 year old hormones, made her like putty in his narc hands. We do know from C's godbrother that B is the one that pressured C to be pregnant. We also have B's inane assertion that her first pregnancy was conceived 2 weeks after their wedding day, so he too likes to paint a better portrait of himself!

 

[Dotta]

They consummated the relationship shortly after she turned 15. She made a cryptic FB post Sept 2, 2016, that the Tunnel show referenced. Remember also that there were coworkers of his at the airline company he worked for in 2016 that noted he was in a relationship with a minor who looked like a little girl. EM also remarked that it was probably (watching her words) 2016. None of these witnesses said that B was acting as a good friend or plutonic with C, they made it clear that the couple were serious when she was 15. We must stop trying to paint a better pic of B; once C was legal (15), things got serious, as part of the grooming. It didn't matter how many chicks he had going, the goal was to snare C and get some of that family money (which he certainly did). IMO, the only reason he waited until she turned 15 is because he didn't want to go to jail. The actual sex may not have got B off (maybe he had to think of somebody else), but taking her virginity certainly fed his narc mind, and with her 15 year old hormones, made her like putty in his narc hands. We do know from C's godbrother that B is the one that pressured C to be pregnant. We also have B's inane assertion that her first pregnancy was conceived 2 weeks after their wedding day, so he too likes to paint a better portrait of himself!

I think we all deserve a degree in psychology for all this dissecting of B's personality and motives haha

 

[tayaway]

I think we all deserve a degree in psychology for all this dissecting of B's personality and motives haha

Crim psych students are probably sent to websites like this as part of their studies! "Here are examples of what to do and what not to do. Take this member's post and explain why this assertion is ludicrous ... then write a 1,000 word essay on current theories regarding NPD ..."

 

[Dotta]

Crim psych students are probably sent to websites like this as part of their studies! "Here are examples of what to do and what not to do. Take this member's post and explain why this assertion is ludicrous ... then write a 1,000 word essay on current theories regarding NPD ..."

Absolutely ha ha ha

 

[Winterbells]

I think CC was a trophy for B.
Some men see having a young girl on their arm as some kind of macho achievement. Maybe he had feelings of inadequacy (aww, bless) and having a pretty young girl as an accessory made him feel more manly/powerful/potent in the eyes of other men.
Flying a helicopter might also have given his masculinity a boost, the way some men think driving a fancy car does. (I've personally never met a woman who's attracted to a man because he has a posh car, but some men like to pretend this is the reason they buy them. I actually think it's about impressing other men. Daddy issues, in other words).

 

[Dotta]

I think CC was a trophy for B.
Some men see having a young girl on their arm as some kind of macho achievement. Maybe he had feelings of inadequacy (aww, bless) and having a pretty young girl as an accessory made him feel more manly/powerful/potent in the eyes of other men.
Flying a helicopter might also have given his masculinity a boost, the way some men think driving a fancy car does. (I've personally never met a woman who's attracted to a man because he has a posh car, but some men like to pretend this is the reason they buy them. I actually think it's about impressing other men. Daddy issues, in other words).

Inadequacy - Yes, I also think it was at the bottom of all this. It is such a shame because he had everything to be satisfied with life. Good job, good looks, health and youth. But we all perceive reality differently, all our demons are in our heads. He was his own worst enemy. And Caroline's - she was literally "sleeping with the enemy"

 

[Dotta]

DBM

 

[Tortoise]

Γονείς συζυγοκτόνου: Μην τιμωρείτε εμάς για το έγκλημα του γιου μας - Fimotro B's parents fight for Baby L

I think that's old news?

 

[Dotta]

I think that's old news?

Ooops! Old news, sorry!

 

[Dotta]

Six Women Murdered by their Husbands in Seven Months in Greece

 

[tayaway]

LE are investigating whether the person who made threatening calls to EM about C's murder case is an accomplice:

Athens Magazine Aug 1

The Greek Police is investigating the man behind the threats to the mental health counselor , having at his disposal serious indications for the existence of an accomplice of the 33-year-old pilot in the horrible crime in Glyka Nera .

According to the report of Theodosius Panos in Real News, the reports of the woman who knew Caroline's "secrets" have given a serious element to the Authorities, which may "unlock" the role of the third person in the case.

This is none other than the three threatening phone calls she received from an unknown number, through which a man threatened her: "I will kill you if you do not do what is right" the man told her in a fierce manner on the phone.

Η Ελληνική Αστυνομία ερευνά τον άνθρωπο που βρίσκεται πίσω από τις απειλές προς τη σύμβουλο ψυχικής υγείας, έχοντας στη διάθεσή της σοβαρές ενδείξεις για την ύπαρξη συνεργού του 33χρονου πιλότου στο φρικτό έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά.

Σύμφωνα με το ρεπορτάζ του Θεοδόση Πάνου στην Real News, οι αναφορές της γυναίκας που γνώριζε τα “μυστικά” της Καρολάιν έχουν δώσει ένα σοβαρό στοιχείο στις Αρχές, το οποίο δεν αποκλείεται να “ξεκλειδώσει” τον ρόλο του τρίτου προσώπου στην υπόθεση.

Το στοιχείο αυτό δεν είναι άλλο από τα τρία απειλητικά τηλεφωνήματα που δέχθηκε από άγνωστο αριθμό, μέσω των οποίων ένας άνδρας την απειλούσε: “Θα σε σκοτώσω εάν δεν κάνεις αυτό που πρέπει” της έλεγε ο άνδρας με αγριεμένο ύφος στο τηλέφωνο.

 

[Dotta]

LE are investigating whether the person who made threatening calls to EM about C's murder case is an accomplice:

Athens Magazine Aug 1

The Greek Police is investigating the man behind the threats to the mental health counselor , having at his disposal serious indications for the existence of an accomplice of the 33-year-old pilot in the horrible crime in Glyka Nera .

According to the report of Theodosius Panos in Real News, the reports of the woman who knew Caroline's "secrets" have given a serious element to the Authorities, which may "unlock" the role of the third person in the case.

This is none other than the three threatening phone calls she received from an unknown number, through which a man threatened her: "I will kill you if you do not do what is right" the man told her in a fierce manner on the phone.

Η Ελληνική Αστυνομία ερευνά τον άνθρωπο που βρίσκεται πίσω από τις απειλές προς τη σύμβουλο ψυχικής υγείας, έχοντας στη διάθεσή της σοβαρές ενδείξεις για την ύπαρξη συνεργού του 33χρονου πιλότου στο φρικτό έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά.

Σύμφωνα με το ρεπορτάζ του Θεοδόση Πάνου στην Real News, οι αναφορές της γυναίκας που γνώριζε τα “μυστικά” της Καρολάιν έχουν δώσει ένα σοβαρό στοιχείο στις Αρχές, το οποίο δεν αποκλείεται να “ξεκλειδώσει” τον ρόλο του τρίτου προσώπου στην υπόθεση.

Το στοιχείο αυτό δεν είναι άλλο από τα τρία απειλητικά τηλεφωνήματα που δέχθηκε από άγνωστο αριθμό, μέσω των οποίων ένας άνδρας την απειλούσε: “Θα σε σκοτώσω εάν δεν κάνεις αυτό που πρέπει” της έλεγε ο άνδρας με αγριεμένο ύφος στο τηλέφωνο.

I bet it was B - he isnt right in the head you know

 

[tayaway]

I bet it was B - he isnt right in the head you know

If so, what's wrong with that; B was just setting up one of his creative narratives! /sarcasm

 

[Winterbells]

I bet it was B - he isnt right in the head you know

I wonder what's making the police think it was a 3rd party and not B himself.

 

[Dotta]

I wonder what's making the police think it was a 3rd party and not B himself.

Routine checks? As far as I know there is no trace of an accomplice. But then what do I know? Only what I read in the press.

 

[Estelle]

I wonder what's making the police think it was a 3rd party and not B himself.

I thought I read a few weeks ago that EM did not think it was B's voice on the phone.

 

[Dotta]

Voice distortion? Hissing madly? Who else would do this if not a crazy murderer? His colleague pilot? A family member? No Way! It was B. But I must add - MOO.

 

[Estelle]

I still believe that B could have had an accomplice and they communicated on burner phones.

I am also still wondering whether there was any connection between Stavros and B even though B denied it.

Also have we been told who was driving the black Mercedes after the murder?