CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[Lexiintoronto]

They could have been at their turnaround spot. Perhaps they turned around because they realized they didn’t bring enough water? That would be the experienced thing to do.
I am trying to figure out how to make this outing, with the resources they had, compatible with their experience and parental responsibilities.
I’d really like to know what they were packing out and what they had left uneaten/unused in their pack.

@katydid23 Made a suggestion that maybe one used some of their water to bring the core temperature down of another if they were showing signs of distress. I think that’s likely.

 

[Pseudonymph]

One-year-olds in backpacks are really heavy and hot and I can still remember how much my husband would sweat when he carried our kids. Heat stroke is the only thing that makes sense.

 

[RickshawFan]

My guess is they planned on going much earlier in the day, but we all know things happen, especially with babies in the house, that slow and disrupt plans. So maybe it was much later than they planned before they were ready to hit the trail and instead of calling it off they went anyway. We can all agree that was a bad decision.

No matter what time they left, though, they'd have ended up in 90-100 degrees on a bare trail. An early morning departure (e.g. without baby delays) wouldn't have made a difference in this catastrophe as far as heat. It was too hot by 9.

 

[woods]

They were found only 1.7 miles from their car. They could have started , not ended up at their location. If there was some kind of suicide pact, often they don’t want to leave others behind. MO

But based on their shoe prints, officials believe they were at the end of their hike. So their shoe prints didn’t end just 1.5 miles in.

 

[GatorFL]

Is there a source anywhere that confirms the type of water bladder they have? i.e. sleeve insert vs. collapsible vs. others? I've seen a lot of statements about 3L being the max for inserts, but I have an 8L collapsible that I take with me on hikes. Might have missed a sure on this being posted though. TIA!

The brand had been mentioned & according to some folks here the largest size that company makes is 3L. I don’t remember the brand unfortunately but one of the outdoorsy people will probably know!

It was said to be a Camelbak. That's a backpack type bladder in a small backpack, good for a day hike. 3L max size.

 

[GatorFL]

One-year-olds in backpacks are really heavy and hot and I can still remember how much my husband would sweat when he carried our kids. Heat stroke is the only thing that makes sense.

I've never backpacked with a baby but I do have a chest rig I've carried on some overnights. As hot as the backpack is, it felt twice as hot with the chest rig on.

 

[GatorFL]

@katydid23 Made a suggestion that maybe one used some of their water to bring the core temperature down of another if they were showing signs of distress. I think that’s likely.

I don't think so. Camelbak's have a tube with a mouth bit. You bite down on the bit and suck the water. They're not convenient to get water out of to cool you off. You would have to open the filling port and pour it out and since it's a bladder it's not easy to control the amount that comes out.

I'm shocked they didn't have some water bottles as well as the Camelbak. I use a bladder and I always have extra water in 1L bottles. Makes it much easier to wet down a cooling towel, share water with others and even use the bidet.

 

[RickshawFan]

But based on their shoe prints, officials believe they were at the end of their hike. So their shoe prints didn’t end just 1.5 miles in.

Source?

My suggestion is, indeed, that they were at the end of their hike. They had turned around and were heading back.

The assumption they were doing a loop is strangling discussion here, IMO. In the absence of explicit confirmatory remarks from LE, all possible routes should be on the table.

 

[RickshawFan]

It was said to be a Camelbak. That's a backpack type bladder in a small backpack, good for a day hike. 3L max size.

Source?

 

[RickshawFan]

I don't think so. Camelbak's have a tube with a mouth bit. You bite down on the bit and suck the water. They're not convenient to get water out of to cool you off. You would have to open the filling port and pour it out and since it's a bladder it's not easy to control the amount that comes out.

I'm shocked they didn't have some water bottles as well as the Camelbak. I use a bladder and I always have extra water in 1L bottles. Makes it much easier to wet down a cooling towel, share water with others and even use the bidet.

IIRC you can hold the bladder up, with the hose dangling below, and you can squeeze the mouthpiece to make water flow. @GatorFL is right that this is annoyingly awkward.
I have to think they really only planned on going a short way.

 

[GatorFL]

Source?

It was in this article: john gerrish death — Mysterious Stories Blog — StrangeOutdoors.com

"The family also had a backpack with a Camelback bladder that held a small amount of water and this was sent for testing in case it was in some way contaminated. There was no indication whether the family had been swimming, as they would have dried off by the time they were found."

 

[Countem]

Source?

My suggestion is, indeed, that they were at the end of their hike. They had turned around and were heading back.

The assumption they were doing a loop is strangling discussion here, IMO. In the absence of explicit confirmatory remarks from LE, all possible routes should be on the table.

“Investigators believe the family hiked most of a grueling 8.5-mile loop — including 5 miles of steep southern exposure trail with little to no trees or shade in 103 to 109 degree heat — before succumbing on the return to their truck on a steep switchback.”

Investigators have ruled out 2 causes of death in case of Mariposa family, but still have no answers

 

[katydid23]

Yes thank you, that’s exactly what I’m trying understand. I made a comment earlier that I didn’t see murder/suicide as viable if they walked hours & hours first (essentially around most of the trail to where they were found). Then someone told me “we don’t know how long they were walking when they died, it could have been an hour in,” which is kind of cryptic & leads me to believe perhaps there was a suggestion they went down the Lundy route directly. I had previously discounted murder/suicide but if they went the SL route & it took under an hour, than that theory seems *slightly* more plausible to me.

However, we do have the direct quote that LE “believes they hiked most of the route” (the loop) so that belief must be based on some evidence of footprints or something. So I’m still with heatstroke.

It is not that beautiful or peaceful of a spot to plan to take your life and family's life in. I'd think you would want to be overlooking a beautiful lake or ocean and have lots of green trees etc...not an ugly barren burned out switchback. JMO

 

[Countem]

Source?

Here is another source from a news source (rather than a blog).

“Briese said they are investigating all possibilities to start eliminating options. While temperatures were scorching Sunday afternoon, dehydration seemed like a long shot, with their pet dying and the camelback still containing water.”

'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail

 

[Figuring]

Source?

My suggestion is, indeed, that they were at the end of their hike. They had turned around and were heading back.

The assumption they were doing a loop is strangling discussion here, IMO. In the absence of explicit confirmatory remarks from LE, all possible routes should be on the table.

Rickshaw can you please elaborate on this: “they had turned around & were heading back.” I’m wondering where you think they may have started from, & how we know they we’re going back over their way in. I’m not doubting you or quarreling, quite the opposite! I want to understand fully because I am utterly confused & might be contributing to conversation strangulation because I thought most people were saying they did almost the entire loop & that police believe they hiked most of the 8.5km meant that too.

Edit to add ie.:
1. Do you think they went Hites cove route around most of the circle, & at the switchbacks were turning back toward Hites cove again?, or
2. They went down SL some indefinite distance, stopped, & came back up the SL way?


Thanks so much for your ongoing help with this case!!

 

[RedHaus]

My suggestion is, indeed, that they were at the end of their hike. They had turned around and were heading back.

RSBM

Phew. Just caught up! I believe a price of entry to a WS discussion is to catch up on all previous posts, no matter how far behind you start out.

@RickshawFan, I agree with you, although I notice we may be in a minority thought camp. I realize LE has stated foot prints were found that could match the family unit but we don't know where exactly and for how long down which trail. Until we do, I believe we'll keep debating this. But here is what I think on this particular point.

This couple is clearly bright, devoted to their family and each other, experienced hikers, and familiar with brutally hot terrain (e.g. BM, Gobi). So the only way I can fathom why they were where they were on such a horridly hot day is they had only planned a short outing... perhaps a 3L bladder worth of hiking for four, so an hour?

A one hour hike, say between 8am-9am, could fall within the realm of reason given the quickly rising temperatures, the terrain, a small baby and a long haired dog.

And that is why I agree with you. It appears to me they may have only gone the 1.5-2.0 miles from their truck, perhaps a little further down the Savage trail than where they found. That would provide them some nice vistas, some aerobic exercise and fun activity for the babe and dog. But IMO something went terribly wrong after they turned around or caused them to turn around even sooner than planned. I suspect it was first the poor dog per that video of a Golden someone posted up thread.

If the dog refused to move any further because of hurting paws, heat stroke, dehydration, etc. that could have been the anchor that set off a catastrophic cascade of events.

 

[GatorFL]

RSBM

Phew. Just caught up! I believe a price of entry to a WS discussion is to catch up on all previous posts, no matter how far behind you start out.

@RickshawFan, I agree with you, although I notice we may be in a minority thought camp. I realize LE has stated foot prints were found that could match the family unit but we don't know where exactly and for how long down which trail. Until we do, I believe we'll keep debating this. But here is what I think on this particular point.

This couple is clearly bright, devoted to their family and each other, experienced hikers, and familiar with brutally hot terrain (e.g. BM, Gobi). So the only way I can fathom why they were where they were on such a horridly hot day is they had only planned a short outing... perhaps a 3L bladder worth of hiking for four, so an hour?

A one hour hike, say between 8am-9am, could fall within the realm of reason given the quickly rising temperatures, the terrain, a small baby and a long haired dog.

And that is why I agree with you. It appears to me they may have only gone the 1.5-2.0 miles from their truck, perhaps a little further down the Savage trail than where they found. That would provide them some nice vistas, some aerobic exercise and fun activity for the babe and dog. But IMO something went terribly wrong after they turned around or caused them to turn around even sooner than planned. I suspect it was first the poor dog per that video of a Golden someone posted up thread.

If the dog refused to move any further because of hurting paws, heat stroke, dehydration, etc. that could have been the anchor that set off a catastrophic cascade of events.

I have to say I concur with you and @RickshawFan. These were experienced people hiking with their infant. Doing the whole loop with what we know about their gear doesn't make sense.

I can't see them subjecting their baby to a 6+ mile loop with only a Camelbak. The baby wouldn't be able to get water from it, IMO. They had to have some bottles for the baby and hopefully a water bottle and bowl for the dog.

I've said from the beginning I am anxiously awaiting toxicology results because this is a mystery.

 

[woods]

Source?

My suggestion is, indeed, that they were at the end of their hike. They had turned around and were heading back.

The assumption they were doing a loop is strangling discussion here, IMO. In the absence of explicit confirmatory remarks from LE, all possible routes should be on the table.

This is the source: 'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail

I’d also like to add this:
Investigators believe the family hiked most of a grueling 8.5-mile loop including 5 miles of steep southern exposure trail with little to no trees or shade in 103 to 109 degree heat before succumbing on the return to their truck on a steep switchback.

Investigators have ruled out 2 causes of death in case of Mariposa family, but still have no answers

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

It was said to be a Camelbak. That's a backpack type bladder in a small backpack, good for a day hike. 3L max size.

Good for a day hike in lower temps with less elevation. That bladder would not have been enough for one in those conditions.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I had heatstroke from the heat dome this summer, I was slurring my words, I fell in some way odd I still don’t understand (I do think I lost consciousness) & hurt myself badly, & after a few days of it I left to escape it & forgot my luggage. And I was in a town, with resources! I cannot imagine their suffering. It’s really heartbreaking.

I think it is easy to underestimate it unless you have seen it, experienced it or read something like this. Vets and peds need to use words like brain damage to get through to people. Even with all the media around Kreycik and his death from heat they still did not register how dangerous the weather and terrain were.

What It Feels Like to Die from Heatstroke | Outside Online