CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[LifeIsAMystery]

Source?

CamelBack website shows options available.

 

[RedHaus]

I've said from the beginning I am anxiously awaiting toxicology results because this is a mystery.

RSBM

I agree @GatorFL. Toxicology is going to be key for so many reasons. In addition to more detailed assessment of whether their organs were subjected to heatstroke or other natural or environmental causes, toxicology may of course resolve any suspicions this is a murder-suicide by poison or illicit drug overdose (e.g. Heroin, Fentanyl).

I do not suspect a suicide-pact between HC and JG because I am not sure that applies here. HC was found 30m from the others. If I let the darker side of my mind evaluate a suicide scenario, what strikes me is HC was separated from JG, as if she realized what was happening and tried to get away from the situation towards help.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I have to say I concur with you and @RickshawFan. These were experienced people hiking with their infant. Doing the whole loop with what we know about their gear doesn't make sense.

I can't see them subjecting their baby to a 6+ mile loop with only a Camelbak. The baby wouldn't be able to get water from it, IMO. They had to have some bottles for the baby and hopefully a water bottle and bowl for the dog.

I've said from the beginning I am anxiously awaiting toxicology results because this is a mystery.

With temps of 109 and no shade, hydration is not the issue, it is core temp.

 

[Figuring]

RSBM

Phew. Just caught up! I believe a price of entry to a WS discussion is to catch up on all previous posts, no matter how far behind you start out.

@RickshawFan, I agree with you, although I notice we may be in a minority thought camp. I realize LE has stated foot prints were found that could match the family unit but we don't know where exactly and for how long down which trail. Until we do, I believe we'll keep debating this. But here is what I think on this particular point.

This couple is clearly bright, devoted to their family and each other, experienced hikers, and familiar with brutally hot terrain (e.g. BM, Gobi). So the only way I can fathom why they were where they were on such a horridly hot day is they had only planned a short outing... perhaps a 3L bladder worth of hiking for four, so an hour?

A one hour hike, say between 8am-9am, could fall within the realm of reason given the quickly rising temperatures, the terrain, a small baby and a long haired dog.

And that is why I agree with you. It appears to me they may have only gone the 1.5-2.0 miles from their truck, perhaps a little further down the Savage trail than where they found. That would provide them some nice vistas, some aerobic exercise and fun activity for the babe and dog. But IMO something went terribly wrong after they turned around or caused them to turn around even sooner than planned. I suspect it was first the poor dog per that video of a Golden someone posted up thread.

If the dog refused to move any further because of hurting paws, heat stroke, dehydration, etc. that could have been the anchor that set off a catastrophic cascade of events.

Thank you for this post, it helped me see things differently & it sounds really reasonable. I read elsewhere (unrelated to this case) that a trail was so hot that the sole of the person's shoe melted. So say they only went 2 miles down SL & had planned that & were turning back, & the dogs feet were hurting. Say even dad tried to carry dog + baby at that point, & pulled something. So sad to think of such a possible cascade being so devastating.

 

[katydid23]

Here is another source from a news source (rather than a blog).

“Briese said they are investigating all possibilities to start eliminating options. While temperatures were scorching Sunday afternoon, dehydration seemed like a long shot, with their pet dying and the camelback still containing water.”

'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail

Just because it still had water, that doesn't mean they couldn't have died from heat stroke. This quote from the article says 'dehydration' ----and technically, heat stroke is different than dehydration. It is the shut down of the organs because of inner core temperature being too high to be able to function.

So at some point one wouldn't be able to drink that water anymore as they become impaired.



"Most people with heatstroke have an altered level of consciousness and cannot safely be given fluids to drink."

Emergency First Aid for Heatstroke | HealthLink BC

 

[Figuring]

RSBM

I agree @GatorFL. Toxicology is going to be key for so many reasons. In addition to more detailed assessment of whether their organs were subjected to heatstroke or other natural or environmental causes, toxicology may of course resolve any suspicions this is a murder-suicide by poison or illicit drug overdose (e.g. Heroin, Fentanyl).

I do not suspect a suicide-pact between HC and JG because I am not sure that applies here. HC was found 30m from the others. If I let the darker side of my mind evaluate a suicide scenario, what strikes me is HC was separated from JG, as if she realized what was happening and tried to get away from the situation towards help.

I think your explanation is the most sensible to be honest but I’m wondering what you make of police saying they believe the family hiked most of the 8.5 trail? That’s the single most confusing thing to me. Perhaps they could have been just speculating at that time? I mean most could also be as little as 51% I guess! But 2km down to where they were found isn’t most, so I think it’s that police statement that has me completely tripped up.

 

[GatorFL]

Good for a day hike in lower temps with less elevation. That bladder would not have been enough for one in those conditions.

I disagree, I think a 3L would be fine for one person to do the loop. IMO.

 

[SophieRose]

Here is another source from a news source (rather than a blog).

“Briese said they are investigating all possibilities to start eliminating options. While temperatures were scorching Sunday afternoon, dehydration seemed like a long shot, with their pet dying and the camelback still containing water.”

'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail

Why would the dog dying rule out dehydration? And they could have water and been using it sparingly on their hike so they would have enough to last to the end.

<modsnip>

 

[GatorFL]

With temps of 109 and no shade, hydration is not the issue, it is core temp.

You're making an assumption they were still alive when the temp maxed out.

The autopsies could have shown evidence of heatstroke but I wonder if the interval between death and autopsy made it difficult because of decomposition.

 

[GatorFL]

Why would the dog dying rule out dehydration? And they could have water and been using it sparingly on their hike so they would have enough to last to the end.

\modsnip>

Heat stroke and dehydration are two different things.

 

[Countem]

Just because it still had water, that doesn't mean they couldn't have died from heat stroke. This quote from the article says 'dehydration' ----and technically, heat stroke is different than dehydration. It is the shut down of the organs because of inner core temperature being too high to be able to function.

So at some point one wouldn't be able to drink that water anymore as they become impaired.



"Most people with heatstroke have an altered level of consciousness and cannot safely be given fluids to drink."

Emergency First Aid for Heatstroke | HealthLink BC

I was simply quoting the article because Rickshaw was asking for the source of the “camelback” information. I agree that heatstroke is more likely than dehydration.

 

[Countem]

Why would the dog dying rule out dehydration?

That is a good question. I am not sure why the article worded it that way!

 

[SophieRose]

Dehydration and Heat Stroke

If a person becomes dehydrated and cannot sweat enough to cool his or her body, his or her internal temperature may rise to dangerously high levels. This causes heat stroke.

 

[GatorFL]

Dehydration and Heat Stroke

If a person becomes dehydrated and cannot sweat enough to cool his or her body, his or her internal temperature may rise to dangerously high levels. This causes heat stroke.

Dehydration would have showed on autopsy. Heat stroke can occur while being hydrated I believe.

 

[RedHaus]

On the lightning topic, 4 hikers injured 2 weeks ago from a lightning bolt in a storm that suddenly came up: Hikers injured from lightning at NC's Grandfather Mountain Recall that CA has dry lightning (no thunderstorm), and it is fire season. Forest fires are often caused by lightning, and the Gulch has already had such an event.

You know, @RickshawFan, I've been following your lightening theory as I caught up with this case here.

I think the ground lightening idea is interesting but there is one key fact that stops me from considering it seriously. And maybe I am wrong about this. If the family was struck by lightening and killed, wouldn't they have fallen to the ground where they were or been blown some distance away from the force of the energy?

In other words, it would seem odd to me that Dad, babe and dog were all neatly lined up together on the side of the trail if they had been struck by lightening and killed. I'd think they would appear somewhat scattered or in a random pile together. That is, unless they were already sitting down and resting when the lightening struck. But then why would Mom end up 30m up trail, unless maybe she was catapulted away from the group with the blast of energy from the lightening?

 

[Officer Dibble]

I think it is easy to underestimate it unless you have seen it, experienced it or read something like this. Vets and peds need to use words like brain damage to get through to people. Even with all the media around Kreycik and his death from heat they still did not register how dangerous the weather and terrain were.

What It Feels Like to Die from Heatstroke | Outside Online

That was a shocking read, especially at the end. Thanks for sharing. I'm in no doubt having read that, that the conclusion will be heat related. JMO MOO

 

[Tink60]

Would lightening strike injuries show up on autopsy? Wouldn’t there be burned clothing and/ or hair?

 

[RedHaus]

The mines are called Liberty Lode (manganese), Blossom #1 (gold) and Devils Gulch (gold). I have screenshotted a map of all three, which you can view here: imgur.com Source: Mining Towns in the Western United States

RS&BBM

If (big if) they explored one or more mines, the first is off Hite Cove Road, back a bit from the fork that goes off to Marble Canyon to the left and Savage-Lundy to the right. Seeing the mine would mean walking off the trail. Blossom #1 mine is about halfway point on the loop, along the Merced River, steps off the trail.... I’m not convinced yet that the mines weren’t connected to what happened.

RS&BBM

@eptichka83, great sleuthing! I am not convinced either, given toxicology and environmental health were a big part of my early professional career. But as you yourself infer, there are many factors that also make this possibility a bit remote such as the fact they were found dead a fair distance away from any mine vs. at the site of a mine.

That said, I have wondered as I think maybe others have previously, whether the family was trying to find the Liberty Lode or Blossom #1 mine and got lost, or walked by the required cut off and had to backtrack once or twice and in doing so wore themselves out to the point of heat exhaustion and then eventually heat stroke. Having tried to find a mine myself in the Rockies, I can attest to how easy it is to miss the cut off and end up hiking a long distance up hill, at altitude and in high heat.

 

[annpats]

....or walked by the required cut off

A cut off? Is that another way of saying the path, route or trail leading off from the main one?

 

[RedHaus]

A cut off? Is that another way of saying the path, route or trail leading off from the main one?

Yes, sorry @annpats for the vague term.