UK - Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder of a number of babies, 2018

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I don't know what to think about this one. Not a whiff of an idea. There are a lot of charges. There must be a lot of evidence.

Yet no one had any thought of something being off with her?

Looking forward to what we find out tomorrow.

We don't know what most people thought of her. Even if you found someone a bit odd/off I don't think you'd suspect them of doing something as extreme as this.
It will definitely be interesting to hear more details.
 
I don't know what to think about this one. Not a whiff of an idea. There are a lot of charges. There must be a lot of evidence.

Yet no one had any thought of something being off with her?

Looking forward to what we find out tomorrow.

I suspect that all you will find out tomorrow is how LL intends to plea, assuming she is arraigned.

However, a trial date has previously been set to commence on 4th July 2022 at Manchester Crown Court and the case is expected to last six months.

None of the the evidence will be disclosed tomorrow.

As this is a complex case the Judge has significant responsibilities to ensure that both the CPS and the defence team are managing the disclosure of material and other requirements to ensure that the case can commence as required. This is the case management element of the hearing.

All this is not withstanding that LL could plead 'guilty' to all the charges or the Crown could offer no evidence to all the charges.....I know where my money is though!
 
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Agreed Whitehall
We won’t know anything until next July. As it should be
 
Blunders on maternity wards are costing the NHS £2.3billion in payouts each year, the report revealed. Nearly four in ten maternity services are failing to meet safety standards.

The report by the health and social care select committee found that a 'debilitating culture of blame' had prevented the NHS from learning lessons from previous tragedies.

It looked at infant mortality rates in the UK, calculating that 'if we had the same rate as Sweden, approximately 1,000 more babies would survive each year'.

Professor Ted Baker, chief inspector at the Care Quality Commission (CQC), told MPs this was 'a reflection of the cultural issues in maternity services nationally'.

This includes a 'defensive culture, dysfunctional teams and safety lessons not learned'.

NHS failure to learn from tragedies led to hundreds of excess maternity unit deaths | Daily Mail Online

This is such an emotive subject (and rightly so) but I always feel there’s some context left out of reports like this.
Of those 1000 extra babies, how many would grow up to adulthood? How many would be able bodied? How many would be neurotypical and able to live independently and work and have a relationship, if they chose?

Miracle premature babies do exist, but statistically they are far, far more likely to live a more difficult and painful life than their full-term peers, with both physical and learning disabilities - often severe in nature.

I am not for one second suggesting these children do not deserve to live, or should ever be denied care. Indeed, some of the greatest humans I’ve ever known fall into this category, thanks to my work.

But when reports speak of “babies”, it’s not quite as simple as the mental picture would create. “Baby” brings to mind a happy, chubby-faced bundle of joy and potential. These are very, very poorly, pre-term infants, whose bodies are not yet prepared to survive in the world.

From what we’ve heard so far of the babies suspected to have been tragically murdered in this case, the same is also true. I’m in no way excusing or apologising for anything but the optimum care for every precious life. But there is a reason we do not intervene to sustain premature births in any species except humans. The truth is, as healthcare professionals we’re still woefully under-qualified to match what a pregnant woman’s body does best.

Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if this may be a factor in institutional/ cultural differences between the preservation of life in U.K. hospitals and others studied. I know the gestation date cut off varies in different countries, where a child born before that date is simply allowed to die naturally.
It will be interesting to see if this whole issue plays a part in the case or proposed motive of LL, and how it might bring the national conversation on the topic into the light.
 
I must be missing it as I’m sure it’s mentioned, but is she remanded in custody at the moment?


Yes she is



Letby answered “not guilty” to each of the charges, which took four minutes to read out, as she appeared by video link from HMP Peterborough where she is on remand.


Nurse denies murdering eight babies
 
Thanks Alyce, the report I was reading just said she appeared by video link but not the location.

That’s a long time to have someone remanded, is there a legal limit? If she’s found not guilty will she receive any recompense?
 
Trial now October?! It was supposed to be July having been changed from January-can't believe it's been put back again feels like it's never going to get resolved. I understand the magnitude of the alleged crimes but to keep having the date moved further and further away plus the amount of times the woman has been arrested. Another year in custody and then six months for a trial? Just really doesn't seem right tbh.
 
Thanks Alyce, the report I was reading just said she appeared by video link but not the location.

That’s a long time to have someone remanded, is there a legal limit? If she’s found not guilty will she receive any recompense?

Time limits do apply. The reason the defendant is brought back before the court, amongst other things, is for an application for extension of the time limit, before it is reached. The judge has to be satisfied that the matters are proceeding expeditiously to grant the continued detention on remand.

Essentially this revolves around the legal principle of Habeas Corpus.

My thoughts are that for any possibility of a compensation claim being progressed there would have to be an major abuse of process, unlawful procedure or other significant transgression proven against the investigating bodies. The CPS will no doubt have identified any concerns a good while ago.
 
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Trial now October?! It was supposed to be July having been changed from January-can't believe it's been put back again feels like it's never going to get resolved. I understand the magnitude of the alleged crimes but to keep having the date moved further and further away plus the amount of times the woman has been arrested. Another year in custody and then six months for a trial? Just really doesn't seem right tbh.

Imagine the logistics of finding twelve jurors who can be available for six months, absorb all the evidence, and then make a decision on each charge. There will need to be a few more besides for the jury selection.

The complexity is usually only something seen in fraud trials. One of which holds the record as the longest UK criminal trial at 321 days in 2017.
 
A trial lasting 6 months? Is that normal? I thought they made a mistake, I heard on the radio today they said 6 weeks for the trial which is usually normal.
 
A trial lasting 6 months? Is that normal? I thought they made a mistake, I heard on the radio today they said 6 weeks for the trial which is usually normal.

Yes, six months. See this report from the BBC at an earlier hearing. There are eighteen charges and no doubt a significant amount of evidential material to be presented.

Lucy Letby: Trial date set for nurse accused of baby murders

The average length of a Crown Court trial is two weeks.
 
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