Found Alive UT - Madelyn Allen, 19, seen leaving Snow College dorm, Ephraim, 13 Dec 2021

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iamnotagolem said:
ABC4 reported that a search of Allen’s phone showed she used dating apps and her phone “contained conversations of a violent sexual nature.”
Brent Brown: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

So it sounds like it’s not just his words that they had BDSM conversations. Not that I’m saying she was a willing participant the entire time, just that there is apparently some truth to his claims.
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Big difference between online fantasy, and reality of non consensual sex. It doesn't matter what she wrote.

If she did not consent at the time of intercourse, or said "no" at any point in time, he is a rapist.
 
mickey2942 said:
Big difference between online fantasy, and reality of non consensual sex. It doesn't matter what she wrote.

If she did not consent at the time of intercourse, or said "no" at any point in time, he is a rapist.
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BBM. If she was unable to verbally say no but had other physical indicators that she did not consent, he is also a rapist.
 
doyoulovemepfg said:
BBM. If she was unable to verbally say no but had other physical indicators that she did not consent, he is also a rapist.
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Or if the predator used coercion, fear, threats to her family. He is a rapist. I am not blaming the victim here at all. It sounds like she lived a very sheltered life. And I want her to be strong, and realize no matter what other people think or say, she has support.
 
mickey2942 said:
Or if the predator used coercion, fear, threats to her family. He is a rapist. I am not blaming the victim here at all. It sounds like she lived a very sheltered life. And I want her to be strong, and realize no matter what other people think or say, she has support.
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Absolutely agree with you. I was just trying to make sure that other posters who have sounded a little victim blame-y understand that the term "rape" encompasses a lot of factors.

What is most important here is that at some point, MADDIE DID NOT CONSENT TO WHAT WAS BEING DONE TO HER. It does not matter what kind of activities she desired, what she was wearing or how she came across this predator. SHE DID NOT CONSENT TO WHAT HAPPENED TO HER. It doesn't matter if her life was sheltered. SHE DID NOT CONSENT TO WHAT HAPPENED TO HER. It doesn't matter if she ASKED this guy to come pick her up initially. SHE DID NOT CONSENT TO WHAT HAPPENED TO HER.

No 19-year-old (or human being in general) WANTS to go through this type of horror. No matter what mental state they are in. No matter what kind of kink or fetish they are involved with. What happened to Maddie is torture and is sadistic and indefensible to the utmost degree; no BDSM partner that's practicing safe sane and consensual would EVER do what was done here. It makes me think that he was planning to kill her eventually.

Maddie (or any other survivors of this kind of stuff who may be reading this): I see you. I've been there too. I support you and am sending you lots of bravery and love.
 
doyoulovemepfg said:
Absolutely agree with you. I was just trying to make sure that other posters who have sounded a little victim blame-y understand that the term "rape" encompasses a lot of factors.

What is most important here is that at some point, MADDIE DID NOT CONSENT TO WHAT WAS BEING DONE TO HER. It does not matter what kind of activities she desired, what she was wearing or how she came across this predator. SHE DID NOT CONSENT TO WHAT HAPPENED TO HER. It doesn't matter if her life was sheltered. SHE DID NOT CONSENT TO WHAT HAPPENED TO HER. It doesn't matter if she ASKED this guy to come pick her up initially. SHE DID NOT CONSENT TO WHAT HAPPENED TO HER.

No 19-year-old (or human being in general) WANTS to go through this type of horror. No matter what mental state they are in. No matter what kind of kink or fetish they are involved with. What happened to Maddie is torture and is sadistic and indefensible to the utmost degree; no BDSM partner that's practicing safe sane and consensual would EVER do what was done here. It makes me think that he was planning to kill her eventually.

Maddie (or any other survivors of this kind of stuff who may be reading this): I see you. I've been there too. I support you and am sending you lots of bravery and love.
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Very well said! I 100% agree!! This deserves to be pinned at the beginning of this thread!
 
The perpetrator has been formally charged.

"Brent Neil Brown, 39, of Loa, is charged in 6th District Court with aggravated kidnapping, rape, object rape and aggravated sexual assault, all first-degree felonies; plus second-degree felony counts of aggravated assault and obstructing justice."

Utahn accused of kidnapping Snow College student charged with 6 felonies

The article also mentions that "After seeing news reports of the woman being missing and the search that was being conducted, Brown threw the woman's phone into the trash at a local store but told her that he had shipped it to Arizona, according to the charges."
 
wnk said:
The perpetrator has been formally charged.

"Brent Neil Brown, 39, of Loa, is charged in 6th District Court with aggravated kidnapping, rape, object rape and aggravated sexual assault, all first-degree felonies; plus second-degree felony counts of aggravated assault and obstructing justice."

Utahn accused of kidnapping Snow College student charged with 6 felonies

The article also mentions that "After seeing news reports of the woman being missing and the search that was being conducted, Brown threw the woman's phone into the trash at a local store but told her that he had shipped it to Arizona, according to the charges."
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Please be careful while reading this article - a lot of the descriptions, while generalized, are extremely violent. I am adding this snippet of the article as well because I think it will likely be relevant later:

"After pinging the woman's phone, "an extensive search" was launched in the Loa area, according to the charges. Investigators believed that based on the intermittent signals they were getting, her phone was being turned on and off.

When police came to Brown's residence on Saturday, he initially did not allow officers inside to search, the charges state. After obtaining permission from the owners of the house, detectives entered and "quickly found a Snow College ID" belonging to the missing woman.

"A gun was located in an open suitcase that contained clothes that appear to belong to (the woman)," the court documents state."
 
Your posts on this are very insightful @doyoulovemepfg and I agree with all you say. I have a friend who went through something vaguely similar (without the violent traumatic end game, thankfully) but it was terrifying enough.

The minute he had photos and/or knowledge of who she is in real life, she would have been compromised in a way that made her extremely vulnerable to any manipulation over and above the consensual online chats they may have been having. Like you say, real life is very different to online fantasy and I doubt she had any idea what she was letting herself in for.

I was going to say that I wouldn’t be surprised if other women come forward but given the nature of the crime and the culture, maybe that’s less likely in this scenario. This won’t be his first crime of this nature though, I’d put money on that.
 
I’m already grimacing at the notion of court, media and general public trying to make sense of a young girl engaging with this type of culture though. I hope she gets the understanding and compassion she will very much need. It’s a lot to unpack and speaks to a much broader online subculture that many might find difficult to understand.
 
mickey2942 said:
Big difference between online fantasy, and reality of non consensual sex. It doesn't matter what she wrote.

If she did not consent at the time of intercourse, or said "no" at any point in time, he is a rapist.
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Hold up before this gets out of control. I just meant his claim they talked on a BDSM site May actually be true, that was literally my only point. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. I only mentioned it because I had previously posted that I thought he was lying about that.

I 100% agree any nonconsensual sex is rape.
 
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And he threw away her phone in a store trash can. I think her situation was very dire and contingent upon his parents ETA.
 
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evilwise said:
There are thousands of threads in our missing but not forgotten subforum. They can't all be dead.
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I believe this too. There are just too many cases of children and young adults who have been rescued after being missing for years.

Some of them may even be in situations like what happened to Shawn Hornbeck, Stephen Stayner and Jaycee Dugard (off the top of my head), who were all kidnapped at a younger age. The years of mind manipulation plus the physical and sexual abuse they suffered messed with their young minds. Even though eventually after many years they had opportunities to escape, the mind f*ck is something none of us can even begin to imagine. That was all they knew. I believe a few long term kidnapped children are walking among us.
 
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Kaysville family: Woman faces difficult recovery from kidnap ordeal

A few details from this article that I haven't seen elsewhere yet:

An Ephraim Police Department probable cause statement said Madelyn Allen met Brent Neil Brown, 39, on the KIK dating app and he picked her up from the college on the night of Dec. 13.

Allen told police Brown ordered her to hide in the coal so police would not find her, the arrest affidavit said. She said she knew Brown as “Cowboy” from the dating app and that he took her phone from her and turned it off when she got in his truck.
​

ETA: Did a bit of quick research on Kik and found this info:

"By-and-large, messages on Kik Messenger cannot be traced. Kik does not have access to content sent over the app, and residual data regarding messages is deleted shortly after they are sent." (LINK)
 
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wnk said:
Kaysville family: Woman faces difficult recovery from kidnap ordeal

A few details from this article that I haven't seen elsewhere yet:

An Ephraim Police Department probable cause statement said Madelyn Allen met Brent Neil Brown, 39, on the KIK dating app and he picked her up from the college on the night of Dec. 13.

Allen told police Brown ordered her to hide in the coal so police would not find her, the arrest affidavit said. She said she knew Brown as “Cowboy” from the dating app and that he took her phone from her and turned it off when she got in his truck.
​

ETA: Did a bit of quick research on Kik and found this info:

"By-and-large, messages on Kik Messenger cannot be traced. Kik does not have access to content sent over the app, and residual data regarding messages is deleted shortly after they are sent." (LINK)
Click to expand...
KIK is NOT a dating app - it is kind of like WhatsApp other than the cannot be traced element, but has a "match and chat" feature that can work like a dating app. How To Use Kik To Find A Date (citation here)
 
wnk said:
Kaysville family: Woman faces difficult recovery from kidnap ordeal

A few details from this article that I haven't seen elsewhere yet:

An Ephraim Police Department probable cause statement said Madelyn Allen met Brent Neil Brown, 39, on the KIK dating app and he picked her up from the college on the night of Dec. 13.

Allen told police Brown ordered her to hide in the coal so police would not find her, the arrest affidavit said. She said she knew Brown as “Cowboy” from the dating app and that he took her phone from her and turned it off when she got in his truck.
​

ETA: Did a bit of quick research on Kik and found this info:

"By-and-large, messages on Kik Messenger cannot be traced. Kik does not have access to content sent over the app, and residual data regarding messages is deleted shortly after they are sent." (LINK)
Click to expand...

what does 'hide in the coal' mean?
did he have a big pile of bbq coal?
how does one hide in the coal and why would he have coal?
 
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